New Flip-Jump Tech?

[Rabspat]

I lurk these boards occasionally, and I haven't seen anything regarding this property of the move. Honestly, if this is already widely known, please do lock the thread. But I was messing around in training mode and found out something that's more than a little interesting. If you quickly double tap jump and then immediately hit Down+B (and I do mean you should be inputting all of these as fast as you can), ZSS will just perform her flip jump, right? Kind of... but unlike normal, you will now be able to end the flip jump with any of her aerial options (the only exceptions being double jump and flip-jump for obvious reasons). Special moves, dodges, and normals or whatever. Yeah... Turn-around B paralyzer? You've got it.

Please keep in mind when you first attempt this that the timing is strict. Hell, the timing seems downright inconsistent at times. If you mess up, you will still get the normal flip jump kick, which obviously is bad in a lot of cases. You need to input what you want very directly before you hit the ground. Her attacks are fast enough that pretty much anything will come out at this point before she hits the ground, if you've timed it correctly. Yes, this means you can end the flip jump in a bair. Uhh... I'd be surprised if you could land a zair like this, though. But for some reason I've found getting an uair to come out is easiest, at least as far as normals are concerned. Performing this manually or with the C-Stick seems to work similarly. The dodge is actually easier to get since you can't get the flip-jump kick... but obviously, this is dumb/super situational.

I've actually gotta go get some sleep now, but I may be able to post video of this later tomorrow if anyone is interest/hasn't done so already. Please let me know what you think, and if you can find out anything

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Welcome to Smash Boards, man. Great first post. Here's hoping these leads to something worthwhile.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I lurk these boards occasionally, and I haven't seen anything regarding this property of the move. Honestly, if this is already widely known, please do lock the thread. But I was messing around in training mode and found out something that's more than a little interesting. If you quickly double tap jump and then immediately hit Down+B (and I do mean you should be inputting all of these as fast as you can), ZSS will just perform her flip jump, right? Kind of... but unlike normal, you will now be able to end the flip jump with any of her aerial options (the only exceptions being double jump and flip-jump for obvious reasons). Special moves, dodges, and normals or whatever. Yeah... Turn-around B paralyzer? You've got it.

Please keep in mind when you first attempt this that the timing is strict. Hell, the timing seems downright inconsistent at times. If you mess up, you will still get the normal flip jump kick, which obviously is bad in a lot of cases. You need to input what you want very directly before you hit the ground. Her attacks are fast enough that pretty much anything will come out at this point before she hits the ground, if you've timed it correctly. Yes, this means you can end the flip jump in a bair. Uhh... I'd be surprised if you could land a zair like this, though. But for some reason I've found getting an uair to come out is easiest, at least as far as normals are concerned. Performing this manually or with the C-Stick seems to work similarly. The dodge is actually easier to get since you can't get the flip-jump kick... but obviously, this is dumb/super situational.

I've actually gotta go get some sleep now, but I may be able to post video of this later tomorrow if anyone is interest/hasn't done so already. Please let me know what you think, and if you can find out anything

The reason behind this "tech" is really simple, performing an aerial Flip Jump doesn't put you into special fall or helplessness, which means you can do literally anything afterwards (except another Flip Jump).

 

[Rabspat]

Here's that video I said I'd post. Very quickly edited, but it should give an idea of what I mean, as well as some possible uses. I make some mistakes in here. Decided to leave them in just to demonstrate that the timing window can be tricky.

Let me list a few quirks about how this works:

- Sometimes when you want a bair or fair, you'll get the other rather than the one that you actually want. Not sure why that is.
- There's no reason to always use this in place of a standard flip-jump. It has some upsides and downsides. The added double-tapped jump adds extra start-up time (based on the time it will take you to input it), and this causes you to jump somewhat higher, so the approach may be more telegraphed on the whole.
-Obviously, you can just jump instead to get the added height needed to perform an aerial before hitting the ground, but this is just a bit faster than that. However, some moves simply do not come out fast enough unless you delay your second jump a bit. I'm mainly thinking about nair when I say this.
-There will be absolutely no landing lag (unlike a raw flip-jump) if you choose to do input nothing when you hit the ground. You will keep your momentum if you choose to walk when you land. You can do this to perform sliding up-tilts or up-smashes.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

- Sometimes when you want a bair or fair, you'll get the other rather than the one that you actually want. Not sure why that is. Most likely due to the Zamus's position (which side of the screen she's facing)

Possible theoriy is in bold

Very interesting tech you found here. The way you first explained it was confusing, because I thought it was simply because the Flip Jump was over. "Flip-teching" (just came up with it) is quite interesting and, when used properly, should make Zamus even less predictable......

 

[pichuthedk]

Well Since were discussing the flip jump now I may as well add something that maybe some of you have already seen occur before but if you down special in a certain way from a standing position on the stage towards the ledge you can actually cause her to wall jump back when her legs touch the edge ( Yes I made sure I wasn't crazy and was not just re using down special or something).

I have an Elgato so when I get a chance I'll stop being bad and do something useful for my fellow Zero Suits, Because if I had my way we would all rule the world of smash ( IRL when we take enough money from kids at tourneys XD).

Our Jet Boots have heels that will pierce the heavens one day. =]

 

[Altea77]

Okay i'm pretty confused.

The way you first explained it was confusing, because I thought it was simply because the Flip Jump was over.

Is that not what it is? I don't see what the tech is here.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Okay i'm pretty confused.



Is that not what it is? I don't see what the tech is here.

I don't see it either. There also never was lag as long as you don't do the kick.
The animation is over before hitting the ground even if you do the dSpecial from a standing/crouching position.
You can actually jump before hitting the ground if you do this.

Never mind, I'm dumb. I was thinking of the dSpecial animation after hitting a shield with it.

I'm not sure if dSpecial is a good approaching method either since it's slow but jumping before dSpecial as mixup is a good idea.

 

[David Viran]

I don't see it either. There also never was lag as long as you don't do the kick.
The animation is over before hitting the ground even if you do the dSpecial from a standing/crouching position.
You can actually jump before hitting the ground if you do this.
I'm not sure if dSpecial is a good approaching method either since it's slow but jumping before dSpecial as mixup is a good idea.

Actually there is landing lag when you land with out the kick but it's very very little. Also you cannot jump out of a grounded down b. This tech is to have no landing lag and be able to throw an aerial out before hitting the ground or jump out of it.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Actually there is landing lag when you land with out the kick but it's very very little. Also you cannot jump out of a grounded down b. This tech is to have no landing lag and be able to throw an aerial out before hitting the ground or jump out of it.

Corrected myself after testing it again, not that I would ever doubt you

 

[Altea77]

So the tech is just jumping before using the down b so the animation ends before you hit the ground? But what was the OP talking about tough timing? Don't you have to just jump high enough? I feel like i'm missing something here.

 

[David Viran]

So the tech is just jumping before using the down b so the animation ends before you hit the ground? But what was the OP talking about tough timing? Don't you have to just jump high enough? I feel like i'm missing something here.

You want to do it as fast as possible so your opponent doesn't know you're doing it. The op was talking about doing flip jump too early sometimes and it not working.

 

[Kesno]

When you down b without jumping on stage you cannot do anything but kick until you hit the ground. This is because the down b's animation does not end until it goes lower than where it started from. This is one of the reasons that you are told to save your double jump when recovering. It's just a tad bit lower but lower non the less. When you full hop it you give the animation time to end allowing you do what you are talking about. Anyway if people just read what you are doing they can just jump and uair you out of down b, so I daout it's too useful but you never know right.