[NEW AT VIDEO] Getting our hands on Smash4 build/demo [...]

[Skull_Kid]

Original post: So, we @Smash Bros Italia are gonna get the chance to try out Smash4 for a day (e3/best buy build). Nintendo still has to confirm this, but it's very likely we'll get our hands on the demo [confirmed, there are gonna be amiibos too]. Is there something you would like us to check out? Maybe something you've missed or didn't have the time to test.

Post your comment, we'll do our best to answer to all the best ideas/concerns about the build!

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For the joy of all the users here are the first vids (for the rest it'll be another 4 hours minimum)

keep in mind that some 1v1 may not be that exciting as they were our first tries, while others are slightly better.

AT/Combos:
Kirby Dair Combos

Smash DI demosnstration

Turnaround Cancel

1v1s:

Sentenza/me (Samus) vs Loci_AF (Bowser)

Loci_AF (Kirby) vs Unknown (Greninja)

Sentenza (Olimar) vs Loci_AF (Kirby)

FFA: this was NOT recorded by us

Sentenza (Marth) vs random people

unfortunately i have some bad news, a couple of videos got lost (and of course it had to be my favorites).

One was a marth vs kirby, the other a zamus vs i don't remember honestly.

I thought they were interesting cause i just looooove dash dancing and kept doing it in this 2 vids, in some cases (even though the characters stay still, it helped getting some moves in or confusing the adversary in general); plus they were the 2 best competitive vids we recorded so far.

Well that being said there's another couple of videos regarding techs coming!

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cause apparently we don't like to deliver:

SmashBoards and r/smashbors questions answered​

Smash Boards Q&A [Smash4]

1 - I'd love to know exactly how amiibo works and whether or not the statement that Samus is "the strongest right now" has any merit.

Amiibos were there, only nobody was actually allowed to use them, soooo that was pretty pointless. Samus feels stronger than Brawl but with aweful missile play. Overall more kill power, less laggy attacks, and a fabulous zair (seriously it's so quick).

2 - Press up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A and see if it unlocks something

Ganon confirmed! (sorry we didn't actually tried the random picks, we thought it would've been a waste of time)

3 - Can you please test if characters can cancel dashes into crouches? Apparently Bowser can, but no one else.

Sorry didn't test this

4 - I would like to see some more Samus gameplay. ZSS was used all the time but there was very little Samus footage. I want to know if she's as much of a beast as Sakurai said. That and some more 1v1 footage would be nice as well.

I guess we delivered on this one hu? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gbPDyaDszs

5 - Can you see how heavy/light the Amiibo figures are, and whether they feel easily breakable?

We weren't allowed to touch them.

6 - Maybe take notes about any new assist trophies you find and what they do?

We got the same everybody else got at E3/Best buy, so nothing new there

7 -'m curious to know if Luma can use a smash attack while Rosalina is stunned. I think I might've seen it in a video, but I don't know if it was buffered or if Luma is literally a fully controlable character even while Rosalina is stunned.

Can little Mac side-b then up-special relatively quick?

Apparently yes, Luma can attack when Rosalina is stunned. As for Little mac, not really, side b takes a bit of time to recover.

8 - Mostly frivolous, but if anyone gets the chance to play as Samus, I'm curious to see if they have any of her past easter eggs like the Extender (uuuuuuuuuuuur) grab in Melee, or being able to Taunt transform to Zero Suit Samus. And though I wasn't able to myself, some confirmation on her not having the Morph Ball crawl would be nice.

Sorry, nothing came out of this one.

9 - You must steal the USB containing the game data at all costs, your forums need you...
JK just ask for it nicely

I did ask, i'm still waiting for an answer!

10 - Confirmation on Pikachu being able to use Quick-Attack three times would be nice... I honestly don't know if it's true, but if it is I would be happy.

Just 2.

11 - It seems no one has asked the big questions

Check to see if dash dancing is still useless Sort of, I think we'll still find a way to use it even as it is
Check to see if air dodging into the ground still give you a lot of lag Not too different from Brawl, maybe a little more
Check to see if smash DI is still out of the game Welp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KQYRSJJ3O0&list=UUFjtfqgEgPCjGgTeTLemfdg
Check to see if aerials still have a lot of lag upon landing Most characters: Yes. Sheik: not at all.
Check to see if characters are still unable to combo from grab (Marth) Some can (Olimar for example), but not Marth
Check to see if we are still able to dash into a pivot tilts Yep!
There's a good chance this demo is a more up to date version of the game then what we had at e3 so I think conforming what we already know is most important as if there are changes our speculations of the game can greatly change.

Same build as E3

12 - No one ever did reveal the damage output for Rosalina's up tilt move. Any chance that this can be looked at?

Sorry didn't test this

Reddit Q&A [Smash4]

1 - Experience the true power of the villager

We tried, but really didn't feel impressed

2 - explore edge guarding

This is interesting, FIRST: all the ledges act as if they're “smooth”, you don't get caught in strange ledges anymore (such as Brawl's final destination). SECOND: It looks like you'll be able to punish who you'll steal the ledge from.

3 - how much does Deep Breathing effect the power of WFT I must know.

Sorry didn't test this

4 - Can you keep an eye out for Chunky Kong and list what trophies you get out of Smash Run (if you get your hands on the 3DS version)? Will you be able to record this?

We didn't get our hands on the 3ds version much, mostly cause they were pushing players to play 4 man FFA on 3ds.

5 - how prevalent DI is along with combo starters and follow up potential, how strong the punish game is and how many movement options we might have being comboed and combing

DI is more difficult to perform, it feels more like Melee than Brawl here, and there's a good amount of combo starters with follow up potential, no huge combos though, mostly small ones; but a good amount of'em! It looks like if you get caught in a combo, there's little chance of you getting out. SDI is in the game, but more tricky and not as relevant.

6 - Please tell me how is Link! D:

To me Link didn't feel too different from Brawl, Loci said he felt a little buffed but unfortunately looks like Link is still Link

7 - Did they put in/take out any interesting colors for the characters?

Same as E3

8 - Where does the game improve upon Brawl? That's what I want to know. Are the characters more balanced? Is the speed of the game faster? Basically, the more information you can get to us, the happier we'll all be.

I don't think i'm able to aswer the first 2 questions cause one day isn't enough to really get what are/will be the strong and weak points of the game, but yes, it does feel faster in general, maybe slower in the air.

9 - We've had such an information overdose after E3 that I'm drawing a blank here... I guess I'm curious about the whole "way too much landing lag on aerials" issue. Does it feel like there's more than Brawl, less, or does it just drastically vary depending on which character you're using? (some have nearly none and some have too much)

It actually depends on the attacks, not all lag, but yeah a lot of characters have increased aerial landing lag (on some attacks).

10 - True Combo potential of characters please

We didn't test combo potential for all the characters, but kirby is a great example! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bryoKOZuyrU&list=UUFjtfqgEgPCjGgTeTLemfdg

11 - Oh, I remembered something else that I haven't seen clarified anywhere so far: you could test Little Mac's angled variations of his forward smash... so far we only have Sakurai's generic info that the uppercut is a high knockback move and the body blow deals the most damage but doesn't move you as much. I'm kinda curious of how drastic the difference is in practice (if his fully charged non angled side smash reportedly deals 25% I really wonder how much damage does the body blow variant deal)

Sorry didn't test this

 

[Kain6th]

Awesome, yeah check and see if Zelda really does feel nerfed

 

[Malex]

I want confirmation on random providing non-roster picks. Not because I want new info, I just want to know if they are that ********.

 

[TeaTwoTime]

I'd love to know exactly how amiibo works and whether or not the statement that Samus is "the strongest right now" has any merit.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

Press up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A and see if it unlocks something

Edit: If that doesn't work try B, A, R, R, A, L

 

[LeeYawshee]

I want confirmation on random providing non-roster picks. Not because I want new info, I just want to know if they are that ********.

********? Coding that stuff is not easy and making mistakes happens ALL of the time. Along with that, the build was super old and was simply just thrown together. They are not ********, mistakes happen and so do glitches.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Yeah, pick random a lot and see if you get lucky with some character you weren't supposed to get. That being said, if amiibos are in, it may not be precisely the same build so who can say what will happen?

 

[KoRLumen]

********? Coding that stuff is not easy and making mistakes happens ALL of the time. Along with that, the build was super old and was simply just thrown together. They are not ********, mistakes happen and so do glitches.

I somehow doubt that coding the random pick would be particularly difficult. I mean, I haven't seen the code, but... How complicated could it possibly be that such a bug could occur?

 

[LeeYawshee]

I somehow doubt that coding the random pick would be particularly difficult. I mean, I haven't seen the code, but... How complicated could it possibly be that such a bug could occur?

Let me remind you that this is a code that makes you pick one of ANY of the characters in the roster. One mistake could **** up the whole code and freeze the game. Along with that characters are coded by specific digits. Someone could have easily missed Ganondorf's digits because they may look similar to someone elses. I.E. Kirby's digits might be 1E while Ganondorfs might be IE or something. Coding is VERY specific.

 

[Kokusho]

Smash 4 will be playable in Paris at the Japan Expo on friday. I'll be playing it also.

 

[KoRLumen]

Let me remind you that this is a code that makes you pick one of ANY of the characters in the roster. One mistake could **** up the whole code and freeze the game. Along with that characters are coded by specific digits. Someone could have easily missed Ganondorf's digits because they may look similar to someone elses. I.E. Kirby's digits might be 1E while Ganondorfs might be IE or something. Coding is VERY specific.

I would know, I major in computer science lol. And that would be an impossible mistake since I isn't even hexadecimal - in fact, it's very hard to make a mistake like that in hexadec. Besides, you have a known, finite amount of characters. Assign each a number and, if you don't have access to API, use any old pseudo RNG algorithm to pick one. Like I said, no matter how I think about it, it can't be that complicated to do. It's not like it's a major feature or anything.

Again, I haven't seen their code so I don't know what kind of framework they have implemented. Maybe it makes it super difficult to do it all straightforward like that... but that level of bad design is uncharacteristic of professional game developers lol.

 

[LeeYawshee]

I would know, I major in computer science lol. And that would be an impossible mistake since I isn't even hexadecimal - in fact, it's very hard to make a mistake like that in hexadec. Besides, you have a known, finite amount of characters. Assign each a number and, if you don't have access to API, use any old pseudo RNG algorithm to pick one. Like I said, no matter how I think about it, it can't be that complicated to do. It's not like it's a major feature or anything.

Again, I haven't seen their code so I don't know what kind of framework they have implemented. Maybe it makes it super difficult to do it all straightforward like that... but that level of bad design is uncharacteristic of professional game developers lol.

It wouldn't be the first time it has happened. Not in Smash Bros but in games in general. And like i said, the demo was thrown together. Even so, should a mistake mean that a developer is ********? Yes, it's a stupid mistake but that person(maybe people) probably had a time limit and was(were) stressed to complete it on time.

I'm not trying to defend the person, they messed up somewhere... But don't we all? Alternatively the random coding could have been iffy at the time and they didn't have time to figure it out.

 

[JediLink]

Can you please test if characters can cancel dashes into crouches? Apparently Bowser can, but no one else.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Don't bother with the random. Just try to look for stuff with the characters you and/or other people are interested in. Chances are, you won't see any Ganondorf.

 

[Malex]

It wouldn't be the first time it has happened. Not in Smash Bros but in games in general. And like i said, the demo was thrown together. Even so, should a mistake mean that a developer is ********? Yes, it's a stupid mistake but that person(maybe people) probably had a time limit and was(were) stressed to complete it on time.

I'm not trying to defend the person, they messed up somewhere... But don't we all? Alternatively the random coding could have been iffy at the time and they didn't have time to figure it out.

I was being facetious. I don't harbor any ill feelings towards the coders and won't regardless of the products they push out. I just find that testing a random function should be really easy.

Spoiler: Math

Example:

Assumption 1: 100 characters
Assumption 2: Each character is equally likely to be selected

Chance of Success per Character per Selection = 1/100
Chance of Failure per Character per Selection = 99/100

Now, you can't just use random 100 times and think that'll work. So, what you need to do is get the "failure chance" close to zero. Let's say you want to know how many random picks it takes to have a 99.999% chance of selecting your desired character. Exactly how many randoms to you do?

The answer is 0.99^x=0.00001
Rewrite that as log0.99(0.00001)=x and you get less than 1150 trials.

How long would it a player to do that in a game? A while, perhaps.
The programmers should be able to test this code in 2 seconds. It isn't necessarily that the code is easy to write, it's that testing the code is so easy.

In the end, I don't actually think that they made any mistakes. The only reason why I'm requesting it is because of the zeal that AA is defending his eye witness. AA seems to be a pretty reliable guy, and by extension, his friend/acquaintance that he's vouching for. It has been a consistent rumor and I just want to know if it is true. I believe, in the end, nothing will be found.

 

[DaDavid]

Very nice to see some other places get their hands on the game. Though I do have some personal stake in it as it will mean more footage, hopefully >.>

 

[KoRLumen]

I was being facetious. I don't harbor any ill feelings towards the coders and won't regardless of the products they push out. I just find that testing a random function should be really easy.

Spoiler: Math

Example:

Assumption 1: 100 characters
Assumption 2: Each character is equally likely to be selected

Chance of Success per Character per Selection = 1/100
Chance of Failure per Character per Selection = 99/100

Now, you can't just use random 100 times and think that'll work. So, what you need to do is get the "failure chance" close to zero. Let's say you want to know how many random picks it takes to have a 99.999% chance of selecting your desired character. Exactly how many randoms to you do?

The answer is 0.99^x=0.00001
Rewrite that as log0.99(0.00001)=x and you get less than 1150 trials.

How long would it a player to do that in a game? A while, perhaps.
The programmers should be able to test this code in 2 seconds. It isn't necessarily that the code is easy to write, it's that testing the code is so easy.

In the end, I don't actually think that they made any mistakes. The only reason why I'm requesting it is because of the zeal that AA is defending his eye witness. AA seems to be a pretty reliable guy, and by extension, his friend/acquaintance that he's vouching for. It has been a consistent rumor and I just want to know if it is true. I believe, in the end, nothing will be found.

I was being facetious. I don't harbor any ill feelings towards the coders and won't regardless of the products they push out. I just find that testing a random function should be really easy.

Spoiler: Math

Example:

Assumption 1: 100 characters
Assumption 2: Each character is equally likely to be selected

Chance of Success per Character per Selection = 1/100
Chance of Failure per Character per Selection = 99/100

Now, you can't just use random 100 times and think that'll work. So, what you need to do is get the "failure chance" close to zero. Let's say you want to know how many random picks it takes to have a 99.999% chance of selecting your desired character. Exactly how many randoms to you do?

The answer is 0.99^x=0.00001
Rewrite that as log0.99(0.00001)=x and you get less than 1150 trials.

How long would it a player to do that in a game? A while, perhaps.
The programmers should be able to test this code in 2 seconds. It isn't necessarily that the code is easy to write, it's that testing the code is so easy.

In the end, I don't actually think that they made any mistakes. The only reason why I'm requesting it is because of the zeal that AA is defending his eye witness. AA seems to be a pretty reliable guy, and by extension, his friend/acquaintance that he's vouching for. It has been a consistent rumor and I just want to know if it is true. I believe, in the end, nothing will be found.

I can understand that. I just think it has such a low chance of happening. There could be better things that they could do with that time. It's the Halting Problem, you know? When are you supposed to stop testing? When it happens? Well, what if it never happens in the given amount of time? You can't even conclude that the bug doesn't exist in that case.

It's an exercise in futility.

 

[Norm]

I would like to see some more Samus gameplay. ZSS was used all the time but there was very little Samus footage. I want to know if she's as much of a beast as Sakurai said. That and some more 1v1 footage would be nice as well.

 

[Malex]

I can understand that. I just think it has such a low chance of happening. There could be better things that they could do with that time. It's the Halting Problem, you know? When are you supposed to stop testing? When it happens? Well, what if it never happens in the given amount of time? You can't even conclude that the bug doesn't exist in that case.

It's an exercise in futility.

The probability isn't that bad, imo.

Probability of seeing a specific character

Assumption: 21 characters (20 + Ganondorf)
Assumption: equally likely

10 = 39%
20 = 65%
30 = 79%

I don't think these numbers are really that outrageous. How many times do you think Random was used? My guess is very very little.

 

[KoRLumen]

The probability isn't that bad, imo.

Probability of seeing a specific character

Assumption: 21 characters (20 + Ganondorf)
Assumption: equally likely

10 = 39%
20 = 65%
30 = 79%

I don't think these numbers are really that outrageous. How many times do you think Random was used? My guess is very very little.

If you flip a coin five times, it is possible to get the same face five times in a row even with the 50% probability. It's that, on a larger scale, that I'm concerned about. If you don't get Ganondorf within x many tries, you still can't safely conclude that the bug doesn't exist.

Still, I guess it wouldn't hurt to do a quick test. There are better things to do, that's all.

 

[Malex]

If you flip a coin five times, it is possible to get the same face five times in a row even with the 50% probability. It's that, on a larger scale, that I'm concerned about. If you don't get Ganondorf within x many tries, you still can't safely conclude that the bug doesn't exist.

Still, I guess it wouldn't hurt to do a quick test. There are better things to do, that's all.

Wat.... I already gave the statistics. You are better off that is a bug that arrives from a unique situation, but I'm not sure why that would be the case.

 

[KoRLumen]

Wat.... I already gave the statistics. You are better off that is a bug that arrives from a unique situation, but I'm not sure why that would be the case.

Statistics are just numbers. The real world isn't always that cooperative.

As for that second bit.... come again? xD

 

[Malex]

Statistics are just numbers. The real world isn't always that cooperative.

As for that second bit.... come again? xD

Yeah? And it is possible to get tails on the first flip? If you perform a test a statistically significant amount of time then you will have results that closely resemble the odds. Will they be able to? Probably not. But lower numbers can set an expectation. I think an 80% chance of success is pretty good.

Now, perhaps there is a bug that makes it unique. Like it requires mega man, Kirby, and Mario to be selected and then random has the chance of selecting ganondorf. However, I feel that that is unlikely because the random function isnt dependent on anything else.

 

[KoRLumen]

Yeah? And it is possible to get tails on the first flip? If you perform a test a statistically significant amount of time then you will have results that closely resemble the odds. Will they be able to? Probably not. But lower numbers can set an expectation. I think an 80% chance of success is pretty good.

Now, perhaps there is a bug that makes it unique. Like it requires mega man, Kirby, and Mario to be selected and then random has the chance of selecting ganondorf. However, I feel that that is unlikely because the random function isnt dependent on anything else.

Fair enough. I just don't want them to potentially waste a ton of time doing something that might not bear any results. Then again, they do apparently have a "day" with the build, so whatever.

 

[SuperMasterHand]

Can someone please explain me what the heck is all this random and ganondorf related glitch ?
Never heard of anyglitch with the random button :o

 

[Malex]

Can someone please explain me what the heck is all this random and ganondorf related glitch ?
Never heard of anyglitch with the random button :o

There were several rumors of person who selected "random" and loaded into the game with Ganondorf. I didn't believe it, personally, but there seems to be someone reliable saying they personally saw it, which piques my interest.

 

[Chandeelure]

I don't know if I believe the Ganondorf rumour, the person said that Ganondorf has the Melee Side Special, wat?
Decloned Ganondorf? Nope, it is even more Captain Falcon than in Brawl XDD

EDIT: Oh, and also, play Smash Run, maybe a Xenoblade enemy will appear in it :B

 

[Gameboi834]

I didn't know this was the AP Prob Stat topic

Can you see how heavy/light the Amiibo figures are, and whether they feel easily breakable?

 

[SomewhatMystia]

Maybe take notes about any new assist trophies you find and what they do?

 

[SmashChu]

It wouldn't be the first time it has happened. Not in Smash Bros but in games in general. And like i said, the demo was thrown together. Even so, should a mistake mean that a developer is ********? Yes, it's a stupid mistake but that person(maybe people) probably had a time limit and was(were) stressed to complete it on time.

I'm not trying to defend the person, they messed up somewhere... But don't we all? Alternatively the random coding could have been iffy at the time and they didn't have time to figure it out.

To add to that, Playstation All-Stars had the entire roster on the demo disc. It's not impossible for this to happen.

 

[IsmaR]

Mostly frivolous, but if anyone gets the chance to play as Samus, I'm curious to see if they have any of her past easter eggs like the Extender (uuuuuuuuuuuur) grab in Melee, or being able to Taunt transform to Zero Suit Samus. And though I wasn't able to myself, some confirmation on her not having the Morph Ball crawl would be nice.

 

[LeeYawshee]

Mostly frivolous, but if anyone gets the chance to play as Samus, I'm curious to see if they have any of her past easter eggs like the Extender (uuuuuuuuuuuur) grab in Melee, or being able to Taunt transform to Zero Suit Samus. And though I wasn't able to myself, some confirmation on her not having the Morph Ball crawl would be nice.

I doubt you can transform from Zero to Normal and vice versa. Especially since they were completely split up.

 

[Nstinct]

I'm curious to know if Luma can use a smash attack while Rosalina is stunned. I think I might've seen it in a video, but I don't know if it was buffered or if Luma is literally a fully controlable character even while Rosalina is stunned.

Can little Mac side-b then up-special relatively quick?

 

[IsmaR]

I doubt you can transform from Zero to Normal and vice versa. Especially since they were completely split up.

I was asking for the sake of clarification.

 

[LoboRundas]

Man, you are pretty lucky. I will only say that I hope you have fun and all of that, here in Spain we only had Nintendo Spain letting some people from the press try the games from E3.

 

[Phaazoid]

I was asking for the sake of clarification.

I played as Samus in smash run. Could not morph ball crawl, tried for awhile. Tried to do the extended grapple once, and failed, but that doesn't mean much, I wasn't consistent in melee with it.

 

[Marakatu]

Please, use all the Assist Trophies you can. There were some rumours about Chunky Kong and some other characters being ATs.

 

[DakotaBonez]

You must steal the USB containing the game data at all costs, your forums need you...
JK just ask for it nicely

 

[DrRiceBoy]

Confirmation on Pikachu being able to use Quick-Attack three times would be nice... I honestly don't know if it's true, but if it is I would be happy.

 

[Xigger]

Steal the demo console, follow these instructions to rip the game, upload the files to the internet

Hehe, I appreciate a good programmer's joke. I'm a programmer.

But for clarity's sake, since some are seriously considering this: Smash Bros. is written in C. (Wii U games are) The code used would be selected_fighter = fighters_available[rand() * fighters_available_count]; . And before you suggest IDs, those are automated, regardless of how many characters are actually present. Bowser will always be character ID 08 or 2F. (Not his real character id) This is an evident pattern with unlocked characters and removed music files.

If it weren't for the fact that this is the 4th game in the series, we COULD expect a random glitch. But Namco Bandai is a different game company making the game, so you never know what files are still there...


tldr; Random never let you play locked characters in the past, it shouldn't let you now.



Did I mention you should steal the demo console and upload the demo files to the internet? Those dev kits are unusually highly guarded, and it does raise suspicion.