Neutral Game/Chain Grab Help

[ZxFlashFreezexZ]

Dear Fellow Smashers,

I'm a SSB4 player who has recently been picking up Melee ,and I was looking into playing Sheik, Ice Climbers, Marth, and Falco. Most of these characters I have had no trouble picking up, in fact I'm doing very well with them. One of my common setbacks, however, is when I'm in playing Sheik's neutral game. I understand her dash attack and chain grab are useful because my friend who plays competitive Melee has been helping me out. I still can't figure these out though, so I came here to seek your advice. How can I chain grab consistently and what can I use as followups? How do I play a good Sheik neutral game?

Thanks,
12AM | Tempest

 

[Seal]

Sadly, sheik has a very under developed neutral game as far as I know. The things that work best in the neutral are auto cancelled fairs and spaced tilts. However, it's important to note that baiting is one of sheiks most important goals in the neutral. Run up shield and run up wave dash back are good to try and get your opponent to commit to something which sheik can easily punish with a grab, flowing into various combos depending on the opponent's character and percent. Also, I'd just like to say try not to dash attack in the neutral, it's laggy and gets you sheildgrabbed. I'm guilty of doing this myself, but it's really bad. Save the dash attack for combining fastfallers.

Chain grabbing is simply re grabbing one of the characters sheik can chaingrab. You'll need to dash forward grab or turn around grab depending on their DI. You should check out this thread we've been having some discussion on (http://smashboards.com/threads/who-can-sheik-chaingrab.414867/) to see who can be chaingrabbed.

 

[ZxFlashFreezexZ]

Sadly, sheik has a very under developed neutral game as far as I know. The things that work best in the neutral are auto cancelled fairs and spaced tilts. However, it's important to note that baiting is one of sheiks most important goals in the neutral. Run up shield and run up wave dash back are good to try and get your opponent to commit to something which sheik can easily punish with a grab, flowing into various combos depending on the opponent's character and percent. Also, I'd just like to say try not to dash attack in the neutral, it's laggy and gets you sheildgrabbed. I'm guilty of doing this myself, but it's really bad. Save the dash attack for combining fastfallers.

Chain grabbing is simply re grabbing one of the characters sheik can chaingrab. You'll need to dash forward grab or turn around grab depending on their DI. You should check out this thread we've been having some discussion on (http://smashboards.com/threads/who-can-sheik-chaingrab.414867/) to see who can be chaingrabbed.

Thanks so much, this helped a lot! I am actually guilty of dash attacking in the neutral myself, but I'll try to improve that. I specifically have trouble in a Sheik vs Captain Falcon matchup, so is there any advice you have for that? I know he's a fastfaller, but that's the only clue I have as to how I can counter him.

Thanks,

12AM | Tempest

 

[Boyz II Mensch]

Your best bet against Falcon is to bait something out of him and then punish. You have needles, so you'll be able to basically force him to approach, or you'll get a bit of free damage on him. If he's approaching with Nair or the knee, you could try to f-tilt as an anti-air , which you can sometimes follow up with a f-air, or, if he approaches with d-air, you can either try to spotdodge and grab him when he lands, or even try to beat him out with a back-air if you have the right spacing. The important part of the matchup is to make sure that you're in charge of the neutral. It's a combo heavy matchup, so every hit in neutral really does count.

 

[ZxFlashFreezexZ]

Your best bet against Falcon is to bait something out of him and then punish. You have needles, so you'll be able to basically force him to approach, or you'll get a bit of free damage on him. If he's approaching with Nair or the knee, you could try to f-tilt as an anti-air , which you can sometimes follow up with a f-air, or, if he approaches with d-air, you can either try to spotdodge and grab him when he lands, or even try to beat him out with a back-air if you have the right spacing. The important part of the matchup is to make sure that you're in charge of the neutral. It's a combo heavy matchup, so every hit in neutral really does count.

Thanks, this REALLY helps! I definitely notice that when my friend Jackson gets close enough to me with his Falcon, he usually gets big damage, if not a kill. I'll work on this matchup, and I'll tell you if it does me any good. I actually might play him tomorrow, because I'm going to a Melee weekly. Thanks again!

Your Fellow Smasher,
12AM | Tempest

 

[OG Zen]

Alright ill quickly break down sheiks nuetral. Then ill give a tldr vs. The top teirs.

Sheik Nuetral in General:
3 key components:
-needles
-boostgrab/DA
-fair
How to use:

1st: you Cannot understand how to use all three of these aspects unless you have a healthy, balanced respect for all the components.

Needles: adds pressure. Space. Mix up options. Edgegaurding tool. Allows sheik to have a macro-advantage vs all but 2 characters (fox. Falco)

You use needles when your opponent respects boost grab DA range.

Boost grab/DA:

Use when oppenents are heavily dash dancing. Boost grab is generally better for it beats sheild. Aim boost grab for the back of the opponents dash dance. Example is vs. Marth. DA is good because it wrecks **** on evey character. Most characters can be grab --> did they DI away? -- yes -- mid % -- yes -- DA it. Ill cover this more directly in character matchups. Its not always the most optimal in every matchup.

Lastly. Fair.

God. The end all be all of godly moves. So broken. Go look at frame data. So broken.....

How to use: set up stage dominance. Fair --> dash back then dash to where u landed. See how they reacted. Did they grab? Did they get intimidated? Adjust. If intimidated. Ez money. Sheik with center stage is op. Its when shes best in the game. Fair racks easy damage in most mathups after d throw. But overall, fair is a microcosm. Use it for threat and spacing. You can condition opponents into longer shield periods with AC fair into spaced jabs. You can do a retreating reverse needle charge cancel into AC fair. If they respect the fair then u leash needles. Or just land, continuing to get a full charge of needles. Easy.

If your opponent catches on to how you engage and spams spot dodge its time to role out dsmash until they staft sheilding or rolling. May the RPS begin.

Vs Marth: stay grounded. Needles are op. Learn percentages. Always dthrow. Regrab DI away. No di/di behind should= uptiltx2 into full unleash needles. Easy 40%. Hogh percsnts u can ftilt fair. Or on no di uair. Its a pretty easy MU. Dont be stupid. You have to space your character respect to his sword. Or else you can and will lose. If he jumps you can wreck him. If he spams dd. Boost grab. Alot more to it but thats a tldr

Fox and falco: limit their options. Respect theirs. Dont over commit. Work on edgegaurding. Understand how to cover what options. Understand your options vs their approaches. If they are cornered you can win. This is where you have to zone hardcore.

Vs falco nair wrecks. Dont sit in sheild. Take time to evaulate what your gameplan is in order to succesfully
Not gove him what he wants. You in your sheild. Master edgegaurding. Easy kills.

Vs fox... Eh i hate fox. Terrible MU imo. You have to master sdi. He punishes you for every un optimal choice. Cant give much advice cause i currently am learning this MU.

I could cover puff but that would take to long and is unimportant in respect to spacies and marth. I also main puff so i understand the MU. So ill give 2 points. Needle camp ledge. Ban FD. Have patience. Do NOT autopilot. This MU is extremely exhausting to our minds.

Falcon:
Ez. Space. Dont engage. Bait him out. Tech chase wrecks. High percents equal ftilt fair or dsmash.

Good luck. Gotta get to next class