Ness's up-close Range game

[The_NZA]

Hey guys,

I'm a big melee player (Ness for life) and I played Brawl for a couple years before growing disillusioned before finding PM. But i"ve noticed a key difference in how Ness plays in the two games.

In Melee, I often felt it was a game of perfect spacing with Ness. throwing out fairs and dash attacks, catching people until you could put them in a position to grab or juggle with DJC uairs. Killing with back throws or Bairs, and edgeguarding with Nairs.

So far in Project M, I've had a real difficult time replicating that kind of delicate up close outspacing game. In fact, Ness has always been criticized for a lack of range, but in Melee I only felt that way against Marth. In Project M, I feel like I have to struggle to get in close enough to do damage (especially against enemies like Lucario). Instead, i'm resorting to just getting close and doing DJC and short hopped dairs, more similar to 64 style of play.

So I guess my question is, have any of you successfully replicated that more melee style of play, and if not why? Is it because Fair is bad now, or useful in other ways? Is it because DJCing is just really hard with the current mechanics in play? And what playstyles have you had more success with?

Thanks.

 

[Little Nemo]

I'm not going to pretend I play a good Melee Ness. So here's my two confusing and misleading cents.
I think it's because P:M Ness is much more similar to N64 Ness now.

... Yes that's it.
Ness has a lot of great approaches now. Making his spacing game not as necessary to rely on. And because P:M is a manly man's game spacing seems to have an increased presence. All characters seem very spacing-based. Ness has a very short range now, too. At least I feel as if it is. Maybe only smaller in comparison to what he was up against in Melee and what he's now against in P:M.
Sorry. I'm a rookie. Hope I actually contributed.

 

[The_NZA]

That seems like a pretty logical analysis. I was messing around with L-canceling my djc'd moves, and Intersting enough, I found the fair to throw combo is still in tact but WAY harder to do and space propersly. The nice thing is, most of his aerials have too much knock back and lack range to lead into a throw but the djc fair lcancelled grab is still in, albeit you'll only spark them for some 3-5%. Maybe i need to wait a little longer on the second jump.

 

[onionchowder]

Ness is much much faster in P:M. I find tech-chasing to be very effective, especially with Ness' great ground chasing moves; dash grab, dash attack, PK fire, smashes, etc. Plus, his Dthrow, Dair, and Fair are great at setting stuff up. Then again, all I do in all the smash games I play is tech-chase.

I was never amazing at DJC stuff in Melee, but I mostly use Ness' DJC as a mix-up; slightly stalling on the Bair, slightly repositioning the Uair to juggle, etc.

I'm in love with PK Fire. Since it activates on shield, even a blocked hit sets up plenty of stuff. Grabs, smashes, aerials, etc.; just watch how your opponent deals with the fire pillar and punish that. PK Fire right before landing is a great defensive maneuver, since there is very little land lag (think Shiek's needles).

Also, PK Thunder received some major buffs. I don't know exactly what, but just play around with it; you'll be happy.

 

[Ganreizu]

Ness' brawl grab is a godsend i'm telling you. So much better than in melee, where i cringed every time i missed it because the lag was unbearable. It was such a shame to see considering his grabs are all so good.

 

[GMaster171]

It was said on the smash mods forum before that the grab change was purely aesthetic. Ness still lurches forward as much as he did, and he has the same low lag ending as he did before, its just the melee animation. Use it the same way you used to.

If you really hate the animation that much, just JC/SC grabs.

 

[Ganreizu]

It was said on the smash mods forum before that the grab change was purely aesthetic. Ness still lurches forward as much as he did, and he has the same low lag ending as he did before, its just the melee animation. Use it the same way you used to.

If you really hate the animation that much, just JC/SC grabs.

Are you referring to 2.5? Because if something changed from 2.1 about his grab i wouldn't know because i haven't done extensive playing yet. Grabbing in 2.1 seemed a lot more fluid and easier to get than melee but i guess i could have been imagining things. (and i'm talking about his dash grab not his running grab)

 

[GMaster171]

Well I thought you were referring to the fact they returned the melee animation in demo 2.5, compared to the brawl animation for 2.1, both being the dash grab (and what do you mean by running grab?)

It is much easier to get grabs in P:M, cause his dash grab is much better, iirc his grab ranges in general are better, and quite a few of his moves are quick and can link into grabs at certain %s

 

[Ganreizu]

Well I thought you were referring to the fact they returned the melee animation in demo 2.5, compared to the brawl animation for 2.1, both being the dash grab

Ah yeah i didn't notice that. Too distracted by pk flash/thunder/magnet shenanigans which are all things i wished for the longest time to be actually worth using. Especially JCmag because brawl- had that and it was sooo awesome and disrupted a lot of ****.

(and what do you mean by running grab?)

Probably just being ********. The animations made me think there were two grabs one for the initial dash and one for when he's in running animations but apparently they're one in the same.

It is much easier to get grabs in P:M, cause his dash grab is much better, iirc his grab ranges in general are better, and quite a few of his moves are quick and can link into grabs at certain %s

His dair is so quick in fact i have trouble even using it much less setting up with it. Huge contrast from how is in every single other incarnation besides 64 which i didn't even play ness in anyway.

 

[The_NZA]

So i played around with fair in training mode and I'm semi sure of it. Its nerfed from melee and i dont think its exclusively because other people's range was buffed.

 

[The_NZA]

Posted about this in the general forums. Go there and offer your support for these issues.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=15215730#post15215730