Ness's Side Smash (Bat)

[bob37898]

Alright. First time on this forum. However I was wondering if Ness's Side Smash aimed at an incoming projectile reflected back from the way they came. I ask this because I was playing as Wolf vs a CPU Ness. Using Neutral B Ness used Side Smash and sent it back the projectile back at what seemed like double speed. Anyone else have experience in this?

 

[BSP]

Yes, ness' bat reflects projectiles. It's really funny when people dont expect it

 

[Eagleye893]

His bat is and has been a reflector for projectiles of basically any type. It shouldn't shoot back at twice the speed, but I'm pretty sure that it has a slight damage increase from what the original projectile does... Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[bob37898]

Alright thanks. Making sure it wasnt a fluke.

 

[1337-Zero]

^ Definitely a damage increase. I think 1.3 times the damage...

 

[Meian]

Actually saw this work on Din's Fire too found it funny

 

[orange/xd]

Yes, it's not very useful though because it comes out slow.

 

[1337-Zero]

Great against Lucario though ^_^

And R.O.B, now that I think about it.

 

[Lightosia]

I remember a match when a Lucas used PK Fire and I reflected it, killing Lucas! ^^

Seriously, the bat could be more used in matchups like Lucario and Samus...

If you reflect ZSS's laser it will be reeaaly good!

 

[Tiersr4Queers]

once tipped damage does more than a non tipped for those who didnt no

 

[Delta-cod]

Funny story about Bat Reflection. A Charizard was doing a SH Rock Smash towards me, and I used Ness's Fsmash. The Fsmash tipped the rock, reflecting the damage of it AND all it's debris to hit Charizard, as well as tip hitting Charizard. That whole thing did about 80 damage and sent Charizard flying to the blast zone. It was so awesome.

 

[AvariceX]

It does increase the speed too, any reflector does - not sure by how much - and has since Melee (in fact this was important in the black hole glitch in Melee).

 

[Funen1]

I wonder, is there a list somewhere of what projectiles can and cannot be reflected by Ness' bat? I've looked around, but I haven't come across it (if someone knows where one is, don't hesitate to say so). Given how many different kinds of projectiles are in Brawl, some of which could instead hurt Ness if hit by the bat, a quick reference like this could help those trying to improve their Ness' game.

 

[Eagleye893]

EVERY projectile can be reflected by ness' bat. dins fire, pkflash/frost, pits arrows, links arrows, snake's nades (provided they don't hit the ground), items, etc. the only thing is that you have to have precies timing.
I may not be 100% sure about some of these, but nearly every projectile should be able to be reflected, including snake's mortar shot, maybe samus' downb bomb thing, and pika's thunder... dins fire i have reflected, and since pkflash and frost have the same type of effect i assume they can also be reflected.

 

[Delta-cod]

Funny, I just stumbled across this video in the general discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL17H3TO3h8&feature=related

It can indeed be reflected. =P

Also, reflecting Pika's Thunder is win, assuming it hits him for the more powerful hitbox. It does a lot of damage.

 

[Funen1]

EVERY projectile can be reflected by ness' bat. dins fire, pkflash/frost, pits arrows, links arrows, snake's nades (provided they don't hit the ground), items, etc. the only thing is that you have to have precies timing.
I may not be 100% sure about some of these, but nearly every projectile should be able to be reflected, including snake's mortar shot, maybe samus' downb bomb thing, and pika's thunder... dins fire i have reflected, and since pkflash and frost have the same type of effect i assume they can also be reflected.

I guess it makes sense that all projectiles can be reflected. Perhaps I worded my first post wrong (I blame late-night fatigue), what I meant by "can't be reflected" was "not always the best option". True, PK Flash/Freeze can be reflected, but the Ness/Lucas using it won't always keep it close (especially with PK Freeze's trajectory), so even if reflected, the original user will remain safe. Here, it would be more productive to absorb it with PSI Magnet (unless it is right on top of them, like in that video there, then swing away). As another example, Fox's lasers fire too fast for reflecting to be useful - the bat is too slow to hit most of them back in any given time, so Fox should end up dealing more net damage. Again, PSI Magnet is the better choice.

I apologize for any confusion. Knowing which projectiles are actually useful for reflection is what I was getting at.

 

[Levitas]

There's a class of "super projectiles" which cannot be reflected, including things like final smashes.

Also, things like bob-ombs cannot be shielded (pretty sure in brawl, def. true in melee)

 

[1337-Zero]

^ Like Waddle Dee & Doo? Though I'm barely sure that they count as a projectile...I'm pretty sure Doo's laser can be reflected though.

Does anyone know if Wario's bike can be reflected before it's destroyed?

 

[Eagleye893]

I don't think it can, but then again it might be able to, if it doesn't touch the ground. I would guess no but I'm not sure.

I would say that the most useful to be reflected are links arrows, the gyro, mortar, zss neutral b shot, missiles, pkfire (to an extent), falcos lasers (to an extent), gordo (whenever you see it coming), thunder, ivysaurs razor leaf, ... Basically the projectiles that aren't energy based...

Absorb would be best with pk anything, fox's lasers, wolf's lasers, falco's lasers, samus' charge shot, lucarios neutral b, zss dsmash (with jump out of the psi magnet absorption into something), thunder (when in the air), fire breath, luigi/Mario fireballs, ... Anything energy based with projectiles.

Shield thrown items, but grenades are the most difficult to think of what to do. Bananas you should try to grab out of the air if you can, but it is difficult.

Mostly it depends on what you have time for... So if you can't absorb or reflect quickly enough, then just shield or clank it... Or outprioritise with nair or something else...

 

[NessBrawler]

I really can't get the hang of the bat though. It's great but it lags meaning you have to plan it out. I say the bat would be best used for the slower projectiles

 

[Dajayman]

Best bet is to try to avoid the projectiles. Bat is far too slow and has too little range to properly be a useful reflector.

 

[Eagleye893]

Yeah... The bat is a little slow, but once you get the hang of it for reflective purposes, it's a lot easier. Plus, moving backwards slightly gives you the ability to reflect, absorb, or shield/escape a projectile better. Psi magnet allows for the most movement backwards while attempting to absorb, which is why I use it a lot more; moving backwards makes it so the projectile takes just a little longer to reach you, allowing for absorption... It makes more sense when you are using it that way. Most energy projectiles are fairly slow and you can jump backwards over it and fall on it to absorb below or very slightly behind. Pits arrows don't make much of a difference... That you have to predict.

For the bat, you have to be fairly significantly far away from the opponent to allow yourself time to reflect. Links arrows are able to reflect, but you have to see it coming, as most projectiles. I've been able to pick up on strategies relating to projectiles and can set out a plan for what to do (during the match).

 

[_clinton]

Best bet is to try to avoid the projectiles. Bat is far too slow and has too little range to properly be a useful reflector.

Yep...this is another thing Lucas beats Ness on...god that stick is awesome (and it has the same power as a reflector that Ness' bat does ^_^)

 

[DeathJohnson]

I remember reflecting a bob-omb once to win a match. It works great if you wait until people no longer expect it.