Ness's Frame Advantage On Shield

[redbeanjelly]

I read in the frame data thread that the initial hit of magnet (Hit: 8-17) is positive 2 on shield (Advantage if DJC first frame: +2). Correct me if I'm wrong, but in layman's terms this means that if you approach with SH magnet, you'll end up in a +2 frame interaction if you land on the opponent's shield, right? I'm curious as to what the best aerial follow-ups are after this. Do any retain a positive or neutral frame advantage? And if not, which aerials lose the least frames and consequently are the safest? Sorry if this questioning is entirely misinformed or misinterpreted, I'm a newer player and I'm still trying to make sense of all this stuff.

 

[GMaster171]

It depends on what you want to do after hitting the shield. If you want to continue pressure you can DJC into an aerial, as only a few characters can beat nair/dair after magnet. Or you can use the +2 to DJ wavedash away or towards to cross up.

Any move done after the magnet would hold its own advantage, and would change depending on how early you hit the shield before landing.

Overall nair and dair are the safest after, but both are fairly unsafe upon landing. Bair both allows you to get to the ground and remain relatively safe upon landing.

 

[redbeanjelly]

It depends on what you want to do after hitting the shield. If you want to continue pressure you can DJC into an aerial, as only a few characters can beat nair/dair after magnet. Or you can use the +2 to DJ wavedash away or towards to cross up.

Any move done after the magnet would hold its own advantage, and would change depending on how early you hit the shield before landing.

Overall nair and dair are the safest after, but both are fairly unsafe upon landing. Bair both allows you to get to the ground and remain relatively safe upon landing.

What do you mean exactly by nair and dair being unsafe upon landing, as opposed to bair?

 

[GMaster171]

I mean that if you hit the upper part of a shield with magnet, then do DJC nair/dair, the hitbox will come out early before you land, leaving you at a significant disadvantage. Bair has much higher startup, which allows to you DJC and fast fall before it hits, leaving less time between hitting the shield before landing, making it relatively safer.

 

[redbeanjelly]

I mean that if you hit the upper part of a shield with magnet, then do DJC nair/dair, the hitbox will come out early before you land, leaving you at a significant disadvantage. Bair has much higher startup, which allows to you DJC and fast fall before it hits, leaving less time between hitting the shield before landing, making it relatively safer.

Ohhhhh I see, a lower aerial on shield delays your opponents oos option in a way. Wavedashing out of the magnet to cross up sounds interesting, but I wonder if you have enough time to do it and do your fastest option on the ground to follow up - probably a down tilt. Anyways, thanks for the info man