Ness vs Sheik

[Kopaka355]

How so i deal with sheik's needles and overall what should i do. Do i be go in or stay back

 

[Kazeelex]

Needles can easily be absorbed by your down B PSI magnet, it absorbs the projectile and heals you too. PSI Magnet works on Sheiks grenade VERY VERY well. After she throws grenade run to it and press and hold your down special. For me, I try and stay defensive against sheik as any character, that including Ness. If you don't need healing, unless the Sheik knows how to cancel the lag for grenade it can be a very punishing move so use that time wisely.

Use PK Fire on Sheik a lot, and then follow up with a grab. I do PK fire -> grab -> down throw -> an aerial attack. Usually FAir, it can easily be combo'd. PK Thunder launching yourself can be a good idea. Try not to get off the stage. Sheik has very good edge guarding. Don't use special B, the green orb (can't remember the name) against Sheik or any fast character. It's basically suicide.

Over all it depends on your personal playstyle. I'm usually aggressive but with Sheik, if they're good, it can be a tough fight. But I really try to stay defensive. I hope this helped. Maybe you can get some more info from some other people. Good luck!

 

[Kopaka355]

Needles can easily be absorbed by your down B PSI magnet, it absorbs the projectile and heals you too. PSI Magnet works on Sheiks grenade VERY VERY well. After she throws grenade run to it and press and hold your down special. For me, I try and stay defensive against sheik as any character, that including Ness. If you don't need healing, unless the Sheik knows how to cancel the lag for grenade it can be a very punishing move so use that time wisely.

Use PK Fire on Sheik a lot, and then follow up with a grab. I do PK fire -> grab -> down throw -> an aerial attack. Usually FAir, it can easily be combo'd. PK Thunder launching yourself can be a good idea. Try not to get off the stage. Sheik has very good edge guarding. Don't use special B, the green orb (can't remember the name) against Sheik or any fast character. It's basically suicide.

Over all it depends on your personal playstyle. I'm usually aggressive but with Sheik, if they're good, it can be a tough fight. But I really try to stay defensive. I hope this helped. Maybe you can get some more info from some other people. Good luck!

PSI magnet doesn't absorb physical projactiles like needles but thanks

 

[Uforia77]

Combos will be your friend. Short hop up air > grab is a personal favorite at extremely low %s. When in the air, follow with fair or up air, and defend with nair. When on ground don't use flash or fire, as sheik is fast enough to punish both. Edge guard with thunder as the tail can be annoying. As for the needles, short hopping will probably be your best friend. When picking a stage, consider something that you can jump through the bottom of (like delfino) or something that allows you to wall bounce with thunder for more recovery options. Good luck, this is one of our tougher match ups.

 

[Floatzel_Trainer]

As a sheik main, I usually feel more confortable with the match up at long range, or trying to juggle Ness in order to pursuit with Nairs or with Fairs chains, since I don't want to stale Uair that much. At very long range, Ness should approach with constant shielding to avoid sheik needles, and at mid range, Ness should space bairs, aerial pk fire canceled with a double jump/dair, or uairs in order to force sheik to grab ness and react to it with a ftilt, dash attack or another grab if you're fast enough. And then, you get the combos.

 

[thesage]

I like to use nair a lot.

 

[[SKS] Yung Lamppost]

space with your aerials and try not get forced off-stage since you'll get gimped pretty easily. for dealing with needles, abusing sh aerials should help you.

 

[Kopaka355]

Thanks a lot everyone for helping, I the match up is a lot easier for me now

 

[Earthward Bound]

This mu suuuuucks

Nairs a good combo breaker as you will inevitably get combod.

This is more of a vs shiek thing but especially with ness try not to get greedy with your own combos - your not shiek your ness. I get 1-3 hits in and get out, shiek can turn it back on you quick. Ive found this to be one of the greater contributers to the mu.

I pretty much short hop the entire match from the nuetral state mixing most up with aerials, some simply tomahawks, and the odd magnet stall if the moment is safe to do so - can be a good bait if done correctly at the right time but a free punish if your dumb with it so be smart. SHing Serves alot of benefits in the mu including needles and ness is just better in the air (at sh height anyway)

Gimping shiek is rather difficult but a run off nair can send her into the blast zone fairly early. If you choose to run off the stage for an edgegaurd be mentally prepared to tech at a moments notice if the stage allows. You can also play it safe with pk thunder juggles. I mostly just aim to rack damage tho, the gimp opportunity doesn't arrise a ton with shiek.

Were assuming the shiek is half decent since we are struggling so it should go without saying that theres pretty much close to 0 reason to pk fire in this mu. Theres a ton of risk for virtually no reward.

Being under shiek is awesome but hard to set up.

Patience is the key. This is one of those mu that you really have to change your playstyle if your instinctively more aggressive like me. Really focus on just trying to outsmart and outplay and capitalize on your punishes. I know this maybe sounds like "duh" and you should always be doing this but I hope that its understood that its just especially important.

This post had already gone on longer than I wanted but the last thing ill touch on that there needs to be more discussion on is DI. It can help in you being less tasty combo food.

Did I say last thing? Oops. You improve the most through experience. I know people have secondaries to deal with such instances as these but I feel generally people are too quick to switch characters rather hone their skills and knowledge in their difficult mu's.

 

[Kopaka355]

This mu suuuuucks

Nairs a good combo breaker as you will inevitably get combod.

This is more of a vs shiek thing but especially with ness try not to get greedy with your own combos - your not shiek your ness. I get 1-3 hits in and get out, shiek can turn it back on you quick. Ive found this to be one of the greater contributers to the mu.

I pretty much short hop the entire match from the nuetral state mixing most up with aerials, some simply tomahawks, and the odd magnet stall if the moment is safe to do so - can be a good bait if done correctly at the right time but a free punish if your dumb with it so be smart. SHing Serves alot of benefits in the mu including needles and ness is just better in the air (at sh height anyway)

Gimping shiek is rather difficult but a run off nair can send her into the blast zone fairly early. If you choose to run off the stage for an edgegaurd be mentally prepared to tech at a moments notice if the stage allows. You can also play it safe with pk thunder juggles. I mostly just aim to rack damage tho, the gimp opportunity doesn't arrise a ton with shiek.

Were assuming the shiek is half decent since we are struggling so it should go without saying that theres pretty much close to 0 reason to pk fire in this mu. Theres a ton of risk for virtually no reward.

Being under shiek is awesome but hard to set up.

Patience is the key. This is one of those mu that you really have to change your playstyle if your instinctively more aggressive like me. Really focus on just trying to outsmart and outplay and capitalize on your punishes. I know this maybe sounds like "duh" and you should always be doing this but I hope that its understood that its just especially important.

This post had already gone on longer than I wanted but the last thing ill touch on that there needs to be more discussion on is DI. It can help in you being less tasty combo food.

Did I say last thing? Oops. You improve the most through experience. I know people have secondaries to deal with such instances as these but I feel generally people are too quick to switch characters rather hone their skills and knowledge in their difficult mu's.

Thanks a lot for your help

 

[Asa]

Heal off of her recovery or when she tries to 50/50 you with vanish as well

 

[Asa]

And don't be afraid to go for disrespectful things to get early kills.. She doesn't pinish that hard

 

[Earthward Bound]

Asa I respectfully disagree

Your advice for winning the mu is basically "put yourself at risk and hope you get lucky"?

Running offstage (into shieks turf) to heal a few measly percent seems like a bad idea for so many reasons but heres a few that come to mind

- even if you get the heal she can immediately damage you for more
- you lose stage control (which is already more valuable than healing) and now find yourself getting edgaurded, racking up damage or worse getting killed
- you get gimped.
- you mistime it and shiek gets a free kill

Healing is the least beneficial thing you can concern yourself with in the mu. Sure if you get back some damage safely bonus.. But this is shiek.

And what disrespectful things does ness have? Pkt2 and dair are the only things I can think of and im assuming your not talking about dair. If you have an opportunity for some sleight of hand for a pkt2 confirm of course go for it thats likely an early kill. While I agree that shiek doesn't have one single move that is devasting shieks punish game especially on a character like ness is INSANE. Its not outrageous to find yourself up 60% because you thought you'd go for something silly like a pkt2 and "just see" if it happened to connect because "shiek can't kill me with a single blow yet"

Maybe you want to elaborate as I may have interpreted what you were saying wrong but I can't see how that helps a ness close the gap. Those seem more like stylin' moves you'd perform on a shiek you were clearly better than that didn't pose a threat to you in a fg match.

Or, maybe I just got trolled hard.

 

[Asa]

You don't have to go offstage to heal from vanish. 20% isn't measly btw , especially against a character that has difficulty killing. It's very easy to do, mistiming shouldn't happen unless you're not technically capable

Use moves like dtilt more , Fsmash, pkt2 (not super blatantly but think about it more). The fact that she doesn't punish super hard means you could use more high reward moves without as great of a risk.

 

[PeterCat12]

Fsmash on shiek is generally not a good idea. Unless you have a hard read then I would not "use it more." You are just asking to get punished.

 

[Asa]

If she's off on her spacing or you just want to scare them, throw it out . It's alright if you get punished because you'll have rage

Gotta have some balls man. The mental game is important