Ness vs. Duck Hunt MU help

[Mripod128]

Hey all, I've been having a hard time dealing with Duck Hunt as Ness. I get hit by the clay disc way too often and get grabbed more often than i would like lol.

Does anybody have any tips? This is a very annoying MU that i want to learn ASAP.

 

[Ranias]

You should have probably asked this in the Difficult Matchups thread.

Duck hunt can be juggled kind of easily, since he is a slow faller and only has Dair as an option to hit under him.

Approaching via ground is safe as long as long as you shield his projectiles.

If you find yourself near the explosive can, you can try F-tilting it back at him or try to make it explode on your shield. If he tries to grab you while you are shielding, then jump or dodge.

If the DH rolls alot, try to predict where he will roll to, and punish with a PK Fire, Dash Attack, or similar.

Oh yeah. His recovery is really gimpable too. You are able to get in whatever attack you want while he is in his Up B.

 

[Uffe]

Platforms make his clay discs somewhat useless. He can still use the can and Sheriff. If you approach by ground, the clay discs will pressure your shield, so that might not be a good idea. The can can obviously go in the air, so that kind of leaves Ness out of the air if it's positioned correctly. Ness' nair, bair, PKT and PKF can destroy the clay discs. I'm not sure you'd want to bat it back towards him. A good Duck Hunt will run to the other end when their can no longer heads towards you. They might poke it so it heads your way again. The more he pressures you and does damage to you, the better it is for him to move in for a kill.

When Duck Hunt uses the clay discs, there is a small window in which he is left open. That's probably really your only chance to do harm. If you can get him in the air, you'll be fine. Just don't fight him on the ground too much.

 

[ExigeOlimin]

Try to get hi into the air. Just like Little Mac, Duck Hunt isn't as good in the air as he is on the ground.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

This might seem obvious, but dash attack trumps the clay pigeon and the grounded can. (It won't detonate on a dash attack.)
It is a solid approach choice in a lot of common scenarios against DHD.

If ever his can is out and past you, you can essentially dash in with impunity.
It'll pop the duo into the air just like a down throw would, letting you follow up accordingly.

 

[Spirst]

Platforms certainly do not make the clay pigeon useless. If anything, DH loves platforms as opposed to FD since he can have stage control with Cans on the platforms on clay pigeons on the ground. As for his recovery being easily gimpable, not true exactly. The default recovery can be given an active hitbox by using a Can offstage and mashing B in tandem to the recovery itself. If customs are on, Super Duck Jump grants him a quick vertical recovery that's harder to punish.

What you want to do is keep in mind where the Can will head towards when shot. All too often, people think:

If ever his can is out and past you, you can essentially dash in with impunity.

and end up getting baited by the Can which will actually move back towards DH.

Ness has more fluidity in the air but it's important to note that DH has a very good disjointed fair and a disjointed bair he can use to combat your aerials. If the DH is getting too comfortable with the clay pigeon, dash shields work quite well in punishing the ending lag from the move. In fact, you should make sure to develop fast reflexes for dash shielding since if you try rushing him down without proper reflexes, you'll likely eat a clay pigeon+followup. DH is a pain to try and grab when played right so you'll have to be smart about going for it since he can throw you out of his bubble and continue applying pressure as he sees fit. The best thing to do, I feel, is to not give him to time to gain momentum and start applying pressure while at the same time keeping an eye on the placement of the Can and the distance it'd take for a clay pigeon to be thrown. Well spaced fairs seem like a good pressure tool and if he begins getting overwhelmed and shields, go in with your grabs and try not to get kicked out. Try keeping him towards the edges of the stages or in the air where you can juggle him. Giving a DH center stage or any momentum is a bad idea. As for constantly getting grabbed, putting pressure on DH doesn't mean being sloppy about it. Try empty hops and fake-outs to see how he reacts to it. This one is less about DH and more about knowing how to read other players. For DH specifically, he can bait a lot of shielding if you're too slow/scared to react to the projectiles accordingly which leads to grabs. Make sure to keep a cool head since the character can be quite irritating to face. He WANTS you to get sloppily aggressive because that's when you start falling for traps.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

and end up getting baited by the Can which will actually move back towards DH.

I was specifically talking about dash attacking when DHD does not have the ability to can you in the face. (When the can is out and past you.)
The can cannot reverse direction unless attacked or custom moves are enabled.
Without the can as an option, DHD has the wild gunman, disc, jab/tilt and fair. Ness' dash attack can approach all 3 and set up on them.

It is the only time to use dash attacks against DHD, but getting past the can is as simple as a short-hop air dodge, roll, or passing through a platform.
They'll be forced to reposition if they want to use the can again.

The pigeon is outright useless if you're aggressively attack it before it gets close. Fair and dash attack end it far before it gets close enough to damage you.
The only time you can safely do this is when DHD isn't holding a can in reserve to space you away.

 

[Spirst]

I was specifically talking about dash attacking when DHD does not have the ability to can you in the face. (When the can is out and past you.)
The can cannot reverse direction unless attacked or custom moves are enabled.
Without the can as an option, DHD has the wild gunman, disc, jab/tilt and fair. Ness' dash attack can approach all 3 and set up on them.

It is the only time to use dash attacks against DHD, but getting past the can is as simple as a short-hop air dodge, roll, or passing through a platform.
They'll be forced to reposition if they want to use the can again.

The thing is, the Can be intentionally placed to be out and past you while still retaining the ability to shoot towards DH. If DH bairs a Can, for instance, it'll go out and past him and you (unless you got hit by it) but will still move back towards DH when B is pressed. I get what you're saying but it's not that clear cut against actual good DH players. Not to mention that even if you're past the Can, you can still get easily thrown out via clay pigeons, grabs, and fairs. This Can reversal also works with a utilt, and sourspot dash attack each of which leave it in different areas. As for Ness' dash attack, it's not bad as an approach but unless it's the 3rd hit, Duck Hunt's highly disjointed ftilt and fair will beat it out (and even if Ness gets the 3rd hit, he'll still get hit with the ftilt which does 8% as opposed to the 3rd hit doing 4%). As for the clay pigeon, there's a point at which the DA will break the clay pigeon but there's also a point at which the clay pigeon will just hit Ness anyway. More often than not, it'll hit Ness rather than him breaking through. This is helped by the fact that we can willingly choose whether to send a pigeon just high enough for the DA to miss but still hit Ness (tilt special) or have it go fast and possibly trade/go through him (smash special). Vs Gunmen though, dash attack works well.