Ness Stage Discussion

[Mister the Wizard]

Hey everybody, I'm relatively new to Project M and competitive Smashing in general, and wanted to hear some of your ideas about which stages Ness excels at and which stages he should avoid. I feel like he can get pretty big advantages from stage selection. I haven't done any research on it really, so I plan to read what you guys post and compile it all here (after doing some research myself of course). I would actually like to make a stage discussion for every character that doesn't have one as time goes on. I think that counter-picking and striking can be extremely important in a set, and I hate not knowing what to strike and just sitting there all confused. So help me out you guys! Just post your thoughts we can talk it all out together.

 

[Bryonato]

There's actually already been some lengthy discussion about which stages are good for Ness in the MU thread, the q&a thread, etc, if you'd like to read through it (I understand it's tedious but it saves you the trouble of having to make a whole thread).
Anyway the thread is already here so w/e.

IMO Ness' best stage bar none is Skyworld. It is both high and wide which helps with our survivability, plats to assist with pkt2 landings, enough room in the center of the stage to allow ness to combo freely, and the top plat allows for uthrow -> tech chase. Also things like fthrow off the side plats can really put certain characters in ideal edgeguard positions for us.
I also like GHZ for it's high ceiling (imo Ness kills horizontally more often than vertically) and short walls, which allow for things like early nair/bair/bthrow kills and the plat that moves in the middle can give ness options with pkt2.
Hopefully when people wake up and realize Distant Planet is a good singles stage now it will be in more rulesets because I think it's a pretty good stage for us. Really like the plat layout.
I think FD is pretty good for us.
Skyloft can be okay for us I think as long as we're not fighting someone with a projectile heavy game like Link.
I used to really love Yoshi's Melee but I have friends that main Ganon/Marth so I've really shied away from it.
Not sure how I feel about WW. I kinda lose on that stage a lot unless I'm playing MK.

I hate Dracs. Too big, plat's always interfere.
I hate FoD. Plats always **** up my djcs and Ness has bad mu's with char's that excel on that stage.
I hate Yoshi's Brawl. Huge plat is annoying and the slant in the middle kinda ****s with our pkf game.
I hate Lylat because it's pretty hard to recover on that stage and I don't see how the slant/plat layout helps us.

 

[Mister the Wizard]

Thanks! I actually was not aware of the stage discussion thread you mentioned, would you be able to send me a link or tell me where it is? Also, does MU stand for MetaGame? I see it used a lot and I don't really understand what it means. The only reason I was making another thread was because I didn't see one in the thread list. I might still take the time to compile all the thoughts I can find in the "MU" and q/a in one spot so that people don't have to sift through lots of info, however. Also, I agree with the stages that you mentioned. I actually don't main Ness personally, he was just the person I decided to start these stage discussion threads with, and I wanted to learn about some stages for my friend who is very new to Smash and mains Ness.

 

[The_NZA]

There's actually already been some lengthy discussion about which stages are good for Ness in the MU thread, the q&a thread, etc, if you'd like to read through it (I understand it's tedious but it saves you the trouble of having to make a whole thread).
Anyway the thread is already here so w/e.

IMO Ness' best stage bar none is Skyworld. It is both high and wide which helps with our survivability, plats to assist with pkt2 landings, enough room in the center of the stage to allow ness to combo freely, and the top plat allows for uthrow -> tech chase. Also things like fthrow off the side plats can really put certain characters in ideal edgeguard positions for us.
I also like GHZ for it's high ceiling (imo Ness kills horizontally more often than vertically) and short walls, which allow for things like early nair/bair/bthrow kills and the plat that moves in the middle can give ness options with pkt2.
Hopefully when people wake up and realize Distant Planet is a good singles stage now it will be in more rulesets because I think it's a pretty good stage for us. Really like the plat layout.
I think FD is pretty good for us.
Skyloft can be okay for us I think as long as we're not fighting someone with a projectile heavy game like Link.
I used to really love Yoshi's Melee but I have friends that main Ganon/Marth so I've really shied away from it.
Not sure how I feel about WW. I kinda lose on that stage a lot unless I'm playing MK.

I hate Dracs. Too big, plat's always interfere.
I hate FoD. Plats always **** up my djcs and Ness has bad mu's with char's that excel on that stage.
I hate Yoshi's Brawl. Huge plat is annoying and the slant in the middle kinda ****s with our pkf game.
I hate Lylat because it's pretty hard to recover on that stage and I don't see how the slant/plat layout helps us.

Just to correct you, GHZ does not have a higher ceiling than Skyworld. I believe GHZ < Skyworld = Dracula's < DL64.

 

[Mister the Wizard]

Oh hey NZA, I've seen you on VGBC's stream. I think I saw you counterpick battlefield a couple times? Are the platform setups good for him or something? I think he can use them in conjunction with his upthrow. If you upthrow them in the middle of the stage and they di to either side then land on a platform, I think you're able to immediately F-air and cover the whole platform to combo. Is this true?

 

[Bryonato]

Just to correct you, GHZ does not have a higher ceiling than Skyworld. I believe GHZ < Skyworld = Dracula's < DL64.

just to correct you, i never said GHZ has a higher ceiling than skyworld

Thanks! I actually was not aware of the stage discussion thread you mentioned, would you be able to send me a link or tell me where it is? Also, does MU stand for MetaGame? I see it used a lot and I don't really understand what it means. The only reason I was making another thread was because I didn't see one in the thread list. I might still take the time to compile all the thoughts I can find in the "MU" and q/a in one spot so that people don't have to sift through lots of info, however. Also, I agree with the stages that you mentioned. I actually don't main Ness personally, he was just the person I decided to start these stage discussion threads with, and I wanted to learn about some stages for my friend who is very new to Smash and mains Ness.

MU stands for Matchup

Oh hey NZA, I've seen you on VGBC's stream. I think I saw you counterpick battlefield a couple times? Are the platform setups good for him or something? I think he can use them in conjunction with his upthrow. If you upthrow them in the middle of the stage and they di to either side then land on a platform, I think you're able to immediately F-air and cover the whole platform to combo. Is this true?

Uthrow stuff would work on spacies on BF but generally outside of the spacie mu you're only going to get any mileage out of uthrow on skyword (since it leads to a tech chase).
In general I think Ness does very well with platforms (though he can also excel without them) since he has a number of good options to cover and chase techs.
For example let's say you're fighting a midweight like Toon Link on battlefield and he's around 60%: dthrow -> jump up to plat and waveland -> tech chase tink and grab -> dthrow -> magnet stall below top plat form -> djc dair -> uair kill

 

[Mister the Wizard]

@ Bryonato can I get a link to the stage discussion thread you mentioned earlier?

 

[Bryonato]

Oh, there's no stage discussion thread, there's just various bits of stage discussion here and there in the matchup thread and q&a thread. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[The_NZA]

Oh hey NZA, I've seen you on VGBC's stream. I think I saw you counterpick battlefield a couple times? Are the platform setups good for him or something? I think he can use them in conjunction with his upthrow. If you upthrow them in the middle of the stage and they di to either side then land on a platform, I think you're able to immediately F-air and cover the whole platform to combo. Is this true?

mm, I didn't counterpick BF. I think I chose it as the neutral of choice in a couple matchups. I believe against Jesiah, I went to BF for the starter, and then CPd him to DL64? Against MDZ, we played our first match on SV, second match on DL64, and 3rd on Wario Ware.

As far as platform chases, I like wavelanding on the platforms and going for a regrab, or recently ive worked on jumping through the middle of a platform, and then DJC dairing on either side to punish a tech in either direction. Fair is a good platform chase for sure, but it can have questionable followups depending on the situatoin.

 

[The_NZA]

just to correct you, i never said GHZ has a higher ceiling than skyworld

I'm a fool.

 

[Mister the Wizard]

@ Bryonato Got it
@ The_NZA K cool. Makes sense.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

What about the merits of low platforms like Lylat and SmashVille? I haven't gone to a tourney yet, so I don't have much to back it on, but I seem to do well sharking under low platforms. I didn't even think of Skyworld, I'll try that one out and see how it feels.

 

[The_NZA]

What about the merits of low platforms like Lylat and SmashVille? I haven't gone to a tourney yet, so I don't have much to back it on, but I seem to do well sharking under low platforms. I didn't even think of Skyworld, I'll try that one out and see how it feels.

Ness has mobility issues getting to platforms to platform chase, so low platforms are very appreciated. They help him extend combos quite a bit better, and DJC aierials below a low platform give you better pressure options.

 

[Mister the Wizard]

Ness has mobility issues getting to platforms to platform chase, so low platforms are very appreciated. They help him extend combos quite a bit better, and DJC aierials below a low platform give you better pressure options.

So stages like battlefield and Lylat would be good in that case? Also, just a btw, I'm going to re-update the main post soon, I've been doing other stuff and I'm also figuring out how the forum works and everything, sorry for being a little inactive on this thread.