Ness Neutral Game

[FanGoH]

Which ones do you think are the best tools Ness has to play neutral?

PK fire searching for approach and combos?
Fast falling/Short hop Nair/Fair?

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Ness' aerials are fantastic. I personally like using a lot of neutral air, or psi magnet into neutral air.

Concerning ground moves, they dont have as much utility. Dash attack gives out solid damage, but doesnt combo as well.

 

[Insanarky]

forward air consistently to catch short hop aerials !!

 

[Specs64z]

If your opponent is short hopping, fair and nair. If they full hop, short hop uair can catch them, and full hop fair is good. If they keep jumping and are at high-mid percents, you can catch them with PKT and juggle them to death. RAR bair at kill percents. Dair is actually useable this time around and has a surprisingly large spike hitbox that decimates linear recoveries. Utilt is a good antiair, but be aware that usmash isn’t because most aerials beat it out and you’re left vulnerable. Running dtilts -> jab is a quick 3 frame punish that can be used where nothing else is fast enough. Ftilt is pretty useless since short hop nair is only 1 frame slower and much better. It’s only application is to kill at ledge at high percents when your nair is super stale. Fsmash reflects projectiles and can kill out of a jab lock. Usmash and Dsmash are great at ledge for early kills. Your specials are great at edeguarding and creating space. PSI magnet in particular gives you tricky movement options. Spaced PK fire is hard to punish, and is sometimes even safe against reflectors at full distance. It’s also good for catching landings. PK flash is a good option against linear recoveries at kill percents.

And of course, keep an eye out for grab opportunities. Fthrow at ledge to get them off stage, Dthrow at very low percents for frametraps, Uthrow any other time, and Bthrow to kill. I’ve noticed a lot of ness mains using bthrow at low perents to get a bair. This is good against heavies, but against lightweights, you’ll likely just end up staling the move at a percent it would kill.

 

[MG_3989]

If your opponent is short hopping, fair and nair. If they full hop, short hop uair can catch them, and full hop fair is good. If they keep jumping and are at high-mid percents, you can catch them with PKT and juggle them to death. RAR bair at kill percents. Dair is actually useable this time around and has a surprisingly large spike hitbox that decimates linear recoveries. Utilt is a good antiair, but be aware that usmash isn’t because most aerials beat it out and you’re left vulnerable. Running dtilts -> jab is a quick 3 frame punish that can be used where nothing else is fast enough. Ftilt is pretty useless since short hop nair is only 1 frame slower and much better. It’s only application is to kill at ledge at high percents when your nair is super stale. Fsmash reflects projectiles and can kill out of a jab lock. Usmash and Dsmash are great at ledge for early kills. Your specials are great at edeguarding and creating space. PSI magnet in particular gives you tricky movement options. Spaced PK fire is hard to punish, and is sometimes even safe against reflectors at full distance. It’s also good for catching landings. PK flash is a good option against linear recoveries at kill percents.

And of course, keep an eye out for grab opportunities. Fthrow at ledge to get them off stage, Dthrow at very low percents for frametraps, Uthrow any other time, and Bthrow to kill. I’ve noticed a lot of ness mains using bthrow at low perents to get a bair. This is good against heavies, but against lightweights, you’ll likely just end up staling the move at a percent it would kill.

I agree with everything you said here however sometimes I do use back throw when I know it won’t kill for stage control and PKT juggles into a possible kill. It’s situaltional but I think sometimes it’s better than forward air for spacing at very select percentages

 

[127]

Sorry I'm incredibly late to this post, but what would you say are good movement options for Ness while in neutral? Specifically if I'm trying to play defensive. I've got a buddy who's a committed Marth and we were just doing friendlies and he pointed out how in neutral, it looks like I'm shorthopping all the time. With that, are there ways to mix up that movement that are safe? Can dashing around be good if I want to trick them into thinking I'm gonna throw out a PK Fire?

 

[kraw23]

Dashing with ness is good, he's most threatening in the air but dash attack works as an approach and spaced grounded pkfire is reasonably safe (as long as your opponent doesn't read it).

 

[OnyanRings]

Dash and aerials your way to victory.

 

[Nutty Sponge]

I shall never help one of my greatest enemies! >: (

 

[127]

I shall never help one of my greatest enemies! >: (

*PK FIRE*

 

[Nutty Sponge]

*PK FIRE*

N o, don't make me relive the torture! ; (

 

[127]

I shall never help one of my greatest enemies! >: (

Wait so is Ness really that big of a problem for Shulk players? Sure, Ness is pretty weak to a lot of swordfighters but is Ness good at taking advantage of Shulk's endlag for a lot of moves?

 

[127]

I don't know, I'm thinking about having Shulk as a secondary sometime in the future.

 

[Specs64z]

Wait so is Ness really that big of a problem for Shulk players? Sure, Ness is pretty weak to a lot of swordfighters but is Ness good at taking advantage of Shulk's endlag for a lot of moves?

It's a pretty typical situation for Shulk. Ness gets out-ranged really bad, but if he gets in his moves are too fast for Shulk to really deal with. I'd say slight advantage to Shulk in the matchup because he can edgeguard very safely and effectively with fair.

 

[Nutty Sponge]

Wait so is Ness really that big of a problem for Shulk players? Sure, Ness is pretty weak to a lot of swordfighters but is Ness good at taking advantage of Shulk's endlag for a lot of moves?

I don't have much of a problem against them while playing Shulk (being able to switch to shield in hitstun really helps), mostly just other characters.