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Ohhhh ok I misunderstood sorry about that. I’d put them one tier down as a +1 or maybe a +1.5 but I still think it’s a pretty easy matchup for the reasons others in this thread have stated. Sorry about that tho
All right im on mobile so it probably only helps me fixing. Edit Fixed!
He means +2 for us, not against us, I believe.
I don’t think Yoshi camps us for free though. I mean it’s not always optimal but the hitbox of Magnet destroys egg and we can outbutton him at certain points. I don’t think it’s a good MU I just don’t know if it’s that bad. That said I don’t have the experience at locals that you do
Well that's ok! As more info comes along i will update until its accurate all the way through and the discussion is the best thing for this.
I get the feeling he means off stage - Yoshi's airspeed is way faster than ours, so if we get sent off stage he can use his first jump to just follow where we go, then as soon as PK thunder starts up he hits nair and jumps back to stage. Ness has a hard time dealing with that.
Yoshi, much like Jigglypuff, escapes PK fire for free thanks to his amazing air speed so it isn't very effective as a punish tool in that MU. The main reason Yoshi camps us for free is speed and mobility. His air speed is greater than Ness's run speed and he has amazing aerial acceleration to boot, so if Yoshi doesn't want to be touched it's a nightmare trying to close the gap. Normally, PK thunder is a good tool, but Yoshi's egg punishes it's use very easily, plus he has amazing aerials to beat it out. Plus everything kraw23 mentioned.
Alright I understand that. I haven’t played a good Yoshi like I said so I haven’t experienced it but I understand the problems he can present
So what can we do against Yoshi?
Like with all tough match ups the best option is to wait, stay patient and punish hard. Yoshi is vulnerable when he has used his double jump, so PK fire followed by aggressive aerials can work if he uses the DJ to escape PK fire. You need to keep in mind which moves are punishable - his down B is laggy, and so are his smash attacks. Don't try to punish an aerial because he will nair you. They also like to stay below you and upsmash/tilt/air you so try to mix up your landings - airdodge, drift to ledge, pkt etc.
In addition to what kraw23 said, there's a few odd interactions you can abuse.
I think our ability to get and keep them off stage is all we need too keep it our advantage and the range isn't that big of a deal most of the timeI think the Belmonts should be even or -1. The Ness discord seems to think it's even or disadvantage for them, and the Belmont discord seems to think it's even or winning for them. Here is an example of some of the charts I came across. I also heard Bestness doesn't like to play against Belmonts with Ness.
Um it's not opinion and Inklings splatroller being broken used to be the general consensus and look how that went and if it was opinion based i wouldn't be updating it corresponding to what yall see fit
Ok fair enough but do you think the Belmonts should be changed?
I do! exist new account.
As much as I agree that learning a character takes precedence over their matchup chart, and I also agree that a matchup chart is hugely subjective in these early months of the game (I'd wager I have barely fought even a quarter of these characters at a competitive skill level), I wouldn't go so far as to say this thread has no value. The chart itself doesn't hold much weight, and it won't for quite some time I imagine, but the ideas discussed here have value. There have been several posts discussing how certain characters can stuff out our options, and what counterplay there is to that.
A MU chart is just a shorthand for the paragraph format you are suggesting, and ideally, there would be that kind of reasoning behind placements when someone builds a MU chart. I don't think anyone would object to recording that thought process down as well, but the MU chart format is way more digestible and most people are still going to want it in that simpler form even when we have all the matchups extensively written out in paragraphs.PK Bash said:
It has been 1 year and the meta had developed more. This is the changes required:How is it? I'm open to any criticism no matter howI get lol. And feel free to ask questions about placement and such.
View attachment 195153
Credit tokraw23 for formatting the chart
