Ness Help

[darkevilprince295]

I know there is Neon's match up thread but I couldn't find any specific help on the Ness match up. Also what would be a good secondary to counter Ness if I have further problems? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Ya Boy GP]

The most important thing to do during the neutral game is to not get hit by pk fire, to do this you should avoid using your shield an excessive amount (because it activates on shield) and try to move around a lot. I don't know how good of a Ness you play, but if they're pk firing on the floor you could just short hop over it and pkfreeze. If they're doing it in the air, that's where things get tricky. The immediate solution to this is don't let the ness player play their game. Don't let them willfully throw out their pk fires, to do this, you should try and anticipate when they're going to jump, jump with them and hit them before they throw out pk fire. Usually I try to space a fair against them just to be safe, but if you're early enough you could uair before they throw out the pk fire and potentially combo off of it (same with dair). The issue with this is if the Ness player adapts they could start throwing out fairs instead of pk fires to intercept your attack, so it turns into a battle of the ness player mixing up their pk fires and fairs.

Combo game wise, Ness is pretty easy to combo. Nair is really good because it can combo into other moves and is also safe on shield. You can do wavemagnet into running upsmash at certain percents depending on DI as a kill move, and full hop double uair strings really well on ness. Same with djc uairs and weak fairs. Ness can also combo you very very hard, but most of his combos come from grabs. He can chaingrab you for a while, and then he can start doing things like dthrow -> djc fair -> regrab or other mixups. He'll do this because he wants to get you off stage as soon as possible and finish with a clean edgeguard. If he dairs you onto a platform, sometimes it's better not to tech and roll once they committed to the jump, but if they read that they can punish so it's another mental thing. If he dthrows you, di in front of him, because if you DI up or behind him, he'll just bair you as a kill or djc uair at low percents and combo you hard. The best option is to try to di to a platform and avoid his dair.

The edgeguarding is pretty easy in this matchup because it's a bit flow charty. The thing about ness is that he has a deceivingly bad recovery. If you get Ness off stage, try your hardest to not let him double jump to either the ledge or on stage. If you force him to use his up-b (usually he'll be above the ledge unless you intercept his jump somehow) there's a very good chance you will kill him. Most of the time, assume he's going to go high with his up-b and account for him to use his air mobility to drift either forwards or backwards and punish accordingly. The longer the up-b stays out for, the lower of an angle he's probably going to take. So if he doesn't take the high angle, you can react and position yourself to cover lower angles. If he goes at a somewhat horizontal angle, most of the time you can intercept with upsmash and finish the edgeguard, and if he's going for the ledge, a lot of it is depending on where you are on the stage. If you can wavedash back onto the ledge that's the most optimal solution, and if you're positioned right, you could just dumpster him with the spike of your back air. All of this assumes Ness is up-bing from above the stage. If he's below the stage you can just cover any of his options with a back air spike. If he's edgeguarding you, watch out for rising down airs to cover your tether. If you're forced to up-b, try to hit ledge with it, or abuse it and go straight for them if you know they're hesitant and would shield it since ness doesn't have very good OoS options.

Overall, the matchup's in our favor. Probably around the 55-45 to 60-40 range.

Edit: Ness' worst matchups are Samus, Pit, Link, Spacies, and Sheik. If you're good with any of them they're good counter picks.

 

[darkevilprince295]

The most important thing to do during the neutral game is to not get hit by pk fire, to do this you should avoid using your shield an excessive amount (because it activates on shield) and try to move around a lot. I don't know how good of a Ness you play, but if they're pk firing on the floor you could just short hop over it and pkfreeze. If they're doing it in the air, that's where things get tricky. The immediate solution to this is don't let the ness player play their game. Don't let them willfully throw out their pk fires, to do this, you should try and anticipate when they're going to jump, jump with them and hit them before they throw out pk fire. Usually I try to space a fair against them just to be safe, but if you're early enough you could uair before they throw out the pk fire and potentially combo off of it (same with dair). The issue with this is if the Ness player adapts they could start throwing out fairs instead of pk fires to intercept your attack, so it turns into a battle of the ness player mixing up their pk fires and fairs.

Combo game wise, Ness is pretty easy to combo. Nair is really good because it can combo into other moves and is also safe on shield. You can do wavemagnet into running upsmash at certain percents depending on DI as a kill move, and full hop double uair strings really well on ness. Same with djc uairs and weak fairs. Ness can also combo you very very hard, but most of his combos come from grabs. He can chaingrab you for a while, and then he can start doing things like dthrow -> djc fair -> regrab or other mixups. He'll do this because he wants to get you off stage as soon as possible and finish with a clean edgeguard. If he dairs you onto a platform, sometimes it's better not to tech and roll once they committed to the jump, but if they read that they can punish so it's another mental thing. If he dthrows you, di in front of him, because if you DI up or behind him, he'll just bair you as a kill or djc uair at low percents and combo you hard. The best option is to try to di to a platform and avoid his dair.

The edgeguarding is pretty easy in this matchup because it's a bit flow charty. The thing about ness is that he has a deceivingly bad recovery. If you get Ness off stage, try your hardest to not let him double jump to either the ledge or on stage. If you force him to use his up-b (usually he'll be above the ledge unless you intercept his jump somehow) there's a very good chance you will kill him. Most of the time, assume he's going to go high with his up-b and account for him to use his air mobility to drift either forwards or backwards and punish accordingly. The longer the up-b stays out for, the lower of an angle he's probably going to take. So if he doesn't take the high angle, you can react and position yourself to cover lower angles. If he goes at a somewhat horizontal angle, most of the time you can intercept with upsmash and finish the edgeguard, and if he's going for the ledge, a lot of it is depending on where you are on the stage. If you can wavedash back onto the ledge that's the most optimal solution, and if you're positioned right, you could just dumpster him with the spike of your back air. All of this assumes Ness is up-bing from above the stage. If he's below the stage you can just cover any of his options with a back air spike. If he's edgeguarding you, watch out for rising down airs to cover your tether. If you're forced to up-b, try to hit ledge with it, or abuse it and go straight for them if you know they're hesitant and would shield it since ness doesn't have very good OoS options.

Overall, the matchup's in our favor. Probably around the 55-45 to 60-40 range.

Edit: Ness' worst matchups are Samus, Pit, Link, Spacies, and Sheik. If you're good with any of them they're good counter picks.

Thanks for all the help I really appreciate it!

 

[Wari]

one of the best way to counter his Air PK fire, is to dash atak him, try to not using ur shield, go thru woth a Shor hop Nair is good option too, the best player of my contry is a ness and im using lucas, the last tournament, im almost take the 1 place it was really close
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulMdWKhcIPY = Winners finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIDi4X46kF4 = GF

hope it works for u

 

[Boiko]

The most important thing to do during the neutral game is to not get hit by pk fire, to do this you should avoid using your shield an excessive amount (because it activates on shield) and try to move around a lot. I don't know how good of a Ness you play, but if they're pk firing on the floor you could just short hop over it and pkfreeze. If they're doing it in the air, that's where things get tricky. The immediate solution to this is don't let the ness player play their game. Don't let them willfully throw out their pk fires, to do this, you should try and anticipate when they're going to jump, jump with them and hit them before they throw out pk fire. Usually I try to space a fair against them just to be safe, but if you're early enough you could uair before they throw out the pk fire and potentially combo off of it (same with dair). The issue with this is if the Ness player adapts they could start throwing out fairs instead of pk fires to intercept your attack, so it turns into a battle of the ness player mixing up their pk fires and fairs.

Combo game wise, Ness is pretty easy to combo. Nair is really good because it can combo into other moves and is also safe on shield. You can do wavemagnet into running upsmash at certain percents depending on DI as a kill move, and full hop double uair strings really well on ness. Same with djc uairs and weak fairs. Ness can also combo you very very hard, but most of his combos come from grabs. He can chaingrab you for a while, and then he can start doing things like dthrow -> djc fair -> regrab or other mixups. He'll do this because he wants to get you off stage as soon as possible and finish with a clean edgeguard. If he dairs you onto a platform, sometimes it's better not to tech and roll once they committed to the jump, but if they read that they can punish so it's another mental thing. If he dthrows you, di in front of him, because if you DI up or behind him, he'll just bair you as a kill or djc uair at low percents and combo you hard. The best option is to try to di to a platform and avoid his dair.

The edgeguarding is pretty easy in this matchup because it's a bit flow charty. The thing about ness is that he has a deceivingly bad recovery. If you get Ness off stage, try your hardest to not let him double jump to either the ledge or on stage. If you force him to use his up-b (usually he'll be above the ledge unless you intercept his jump somehow) there's a very good chance you will kill him. Most of the time, assume he's going to go high with his up-b and account for him to use his air mobility to drift either forwards or backwards and punish accordingly. The longer the up-b stays out for, the lower of an angle he's probably going to take. So if he doesn't take the high angle, you can react and position yourself to cover lower angles. If he goes at a somewhat horizontal angle, most of the time you can intercept with upsmash and finish the edgeguard, and if he's going for the ledge, a lot of it is depending on where you are on the stage. If you can wavedash back onto the ledge that's the most optimal solution, and if you're positioned right, you could just dumpster him with the spike of your back air. All of this assumes Ness is up-bing from above the stage. If he's below the stage you can just cover any of his options with a back air spike. If he's edgeguarding you, watch out for rising down airs to cover your tether. If you're forced to up-b, try to hit ledge with it, or abuse it and go straight for them if you know they're hesitant and would shield it since ness doesn't have very good OoS options.

Overall, the matchup's in our favor. Probably around the 55-45 to 60-40 range.

Edit: Ness' worst matchups are Samus, Pit, Link, Spacies, and Sheik. If you're good with any of them they're good counter picks.

GOD HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL OF THAT!?

 

[darkevilprince295]

one of the best way to counter his Air PK fire, is to dash atak him, try to not using ur shield, go thru woth a Shor hop Nair is good option too, the best player of my contry is a ness and im using lucas, the last tournament, im almost take the 1 place it was really close
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulMdWKhcIPY = Winners finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIDi4X46kF4 = GF

hope it works for u

Thanks for the help man I really appreciate it! I'll definitely keep that in mind when going against an aerial pk fire

 

[Nayyr]

One thing I've picked up with my friend is smash DI out of pkfire if you do happen to get caught in it. I want to say that CT-Zero has a video on youtube specifically showing how to smash di out of pk fire.