Ness custom moves

[Ganreizu]

It's a shame that not many of them are useable like rising PK Flash.

Rising PK flash has uses.

 

[thesage]

I like the more powerful version of pkt.

Edit:
So how about some actual serious discussion. I've seen way better analyses on custom moves for other characters but hardly anything for Ness. Imma step it up for you guys.

Side-b:

So I haven't really had a chance to really test out these custom moves against people yet, but I'm really like pk fire burst. It almost has about 3/8ths the range of fd and does some good damage (9% in training). The knockback is great for setting up edgeguards and can kill if you used as an edgeguard when the opponent is at higher percents. You can sh it to move around while using it. You can also "djc" it (I think in brawl it was called pk jump or some **** lol) to mess with your momentum or delay your pk fire timing a little bit.

Normal Pk fire should only be used on people who are very predictable; at higher levels of play I think it'll be a very unsafe move. I'm able to shield and punish it on reaction in for glory mode when I playing against other Nesses, and I'm somebody who has below average reaction/finger speed. People can also di out of the pillar in multiple ways, making a followup a guessing game. At lower levels of play I see it working very well (and it works great for me online) but in a real tournament I don't see it being very safe.

The third pk fire is bad. Didn't test it out too much, but it has much shorter range and I'm pretty sure it ends up doing less damage than the other moves since it's easier to vector out of it. Probably can be easily shielded. It does have a lot of hitstun though.

Neutral-B

Pk flash can be used to edgeguard certain characters (Little mac, Marth, Falcon) that have predictable recoveries and like to sweetspot the edge. You should always face away from your opponent since pk flash has increased horizontal range behind Ness for some reason. If you don't put in any inputs to pk flash you'll notice that it naturally goes behind Ness. Still a very situational move.

Rising pk flash may be used in juggles. It can hit opponents that are right next to Ness if you let go of b immediately, but Ness has much better moves to use in a situation like that. Might be useful against opponent that like to recover high against you. Combine this with your other specials (Normal pkt, pk fire burst), nair, fair, dair, f-smash, and d-smash and you get a decent edgeguarding game.

I don't see anything redeemable about pk freeze. If you use it as an edgeguard it sends them vertically and it's still too slow to be used as a normal projectile. Doesn't really accomplish anything useful and is laggy.

Down-B

Forward Psi-Magnet is better than regular psi magnet in nearly every way imaginable. The attack hitbox is kinda useless since Ness has better options. The extra range on the absorb hitbox is what's good about this move.

Psi Vacuum is interesting, might be useful for tech chasing, but that rarely comes up in this game. Has more range than you would expect, but since the 2nd hitbox takes some time to come out it may not be a safe move to use. Needs to be tested more, but I don't think this is a useful move. Still is nice to have another option when your opponent doesn't have an absorbable projectile.

Up-B

I think up-b is the move I'm having the hardest time picking out a definite favorite.

Normal pk thunder is the best when it comes to juggling.

Piercing pk thunder is good in matchups where you have to recover verrry far away or die (Rosalina) and is also the easiest at edeguarding since it sends opponents away from you. Pkt2 is still good for techchases. You can't really juggle with this. The fact that pkt goes through shields is interesting.

Rolling pk thunder is the ultimate troll move. It makes the whole screen shake when you start pkt2. Tons of fun to use. The difference in recovery between this and normal pkt is not that noticeable and it doesn't loose that much distance when you hit somebody with it. Pkt2 is also very easy to aim since the bolt moves so much slower so you can recover at better angles. You can't really juggle since the bolt is too slow, but you can ko somebody at such lower percents with pkt2 and pkt2 is almost safe enough that you could spam it. I really want to test this move out more.

Safest move to use in tournament is probably normal pkt and you should switch to piercing pkt against Rosalina and anybody else who you can't juggle due to their moves (i.e. the Ness ditto since psi magnet absorbs pkt easily, but you can use pkt to gimp the other Nesses pkt so it's still a tradeoff).

I think the optimum choices are:

pk fire burst (lucas's) > pk fire > pk bonfire
(forward psi magnet = psi vacuum) > psi magnet
pk flash >= rising pk flash >>>>> pk freeze
pkt > piercing pkt > rolling pkt

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I really hate how Lucas' Thunder and Freeze have become really sluggish compared to Brawl.
It's a shame, they'd be my go-to moves if they weren't so slow now.

I was so disappointed when I heard that Freeze is as slow as default Flash. If it's gonna move that slow, I want that **** to kill, not freeze.

al serious discussion. I've seen way better analyses on custom moves for other characters but hardly anything for Ness. Imma step it up for you guys.

Side-b:

So I haven't really had a chance to really test out these custom moves against people yet, but I'm really like pk fire burst. It almost has about 3/8ths the range of fd and does some good damage (9% in training). The knockback is great for setting up edgeguards and can kill if you used as an edgeguard when the opponent is at higher percents. You can sh it to move around while using it. You can also "djc" it (I think in brawl it was called pk jump or some **** lol) to mess with your momentum or delay your pk fire timing a little bit.

Normal Pk fire should only be used on people who are very predictable; at higher levels of play I think it'll be a very unsafe move. I'm able to shield and punish it on reaction in for glory mode when I playing against other Nesses, and I'm somebody who has below average reaction/finger speed. People can also di out of the pillar in multiple ways, making a followup a guessing game. At lower levels of play I see it working very well (and it works great for me online) but in a real tournament I don't see it being very safe.

The third pk fire is bad. Didn't test it out too much, but it has much shorter range and I'm pretty sure it ends up doing less damage than the other moves since it's easier to vector out of it. Probably can be easily shielded. It does have a lot of hitstun though.

Neutral-B

Pk flash can be used to edgeguard certain characters (Little mac, Marth, Falcon) that have predictable recoveries and like to sweetspot the edge. You should always face away from your opponent since pk flash has increased horizontal range behind Ness for some reason. If you don't put in any inputs to pk flash you'll notice that it naturally goes behind Ness. Still a very situational move.

Rising pk flash may be used in juggles. It can hit opponents that are right next to Ness if you let go of b immediately, but Ness has much better moves to use in a situation like that. Might be useful against opponent that like to recover high against you. Combine this with your other specials (Normal pkt, pk fire burst), nair, fair, dair, f-smash, and d-smash and you get a decent edgeguarding game.

I don't see anything redeemable about pk freeze. If you use it as an edgeguard it sends them vertically and it's still too slow to be used as a normal projectile. Doesn't really accomplish anything useful and is laggy.

Down-B

Forward Psi-Magnet is better than regular psi magnet in nearly every way imaginable. The attack hitbox is kinda useless since Ness has better options. The extra range on the absorb hitbox is what's good about this move.

Psi Vacuum is interesting, might be useful for tech chasing, but that rarely comes up in this game. Has more range than you would expect, but since the 2nd hitbox takes some time to come out it may not be a safe move to use. Needs to be tested more, but I don't think this is a useful move. Still is nice to have another option when your opponent doesn't have an absorbable projectile.

Up-B

I think up-b is the move I'm having the hardest time picking out a definite favorite.

Normal pk thunder is the best when it comes to juggling.

Piercing pk thunder is good in matchups where you have to recover verrry far away or die (Rosalina) and is also the easiest at edeguarding since it sends opponents away from you. Pkt2 is still good for techchases. You can't really juggle with this. The fact that pkt goes through shields is interesting.

Rolling pk thunder is the ultimate troll move. It makes the whole screen shake when you start pkt2. Tons of fun to use. The difference in recovery between this and normal pkt is not that noticeable and it doesn't loose that much distance when you hit somebody with it. Pkt2 is also very easy to aim since the bolt moves so much slower so you can recover at better angles. You can't really juggle since the bolt is too slow, but you can ko somebody at such lower percents with pkt2 and pkt2 is almost safe enough that you could spam it. I really want to test this move out more.

Safest move to use in tournament is probably normal pkt and you should switch to piercing pkt against Rosalina and anybody else who you can't juggle due to their moves (i.e. the Ness ditto since psi magnet absorbs pkt easily, but you can use pkt to gimp the other Nesses pkt so it's still a tradeoff).

I think the optimum choices are:

pk fire burst (lucas's) > pk fire > pk bonfire
(forward psi magnet = psi vacuum) > psi magnet
pk flash >= rising pk flash >>>>> pk freeze
pkt > piercing pkt > rolling pkt

Nice analysis. My thoughts:

PK Fire: I haven't messed around too much with fireburst cause A) I don't get the chance to play customs often and B) I like the air to ground and mixup capabilities of the default fire. I have been noticing that stronger For Glory players are a lot better at vectoring out, but I feel it could still have some options. I'll play a few rounds with fireburst this week at my local scene to see how it feels. Bonfire is pretty mediocre, but combined with PSI vacuum it could be a decent troll option against big-bodies/heavies.

PK Flash: Like you said, still situational. I will note that edgeguarding with it works a bit better than I expected it to. I still think I prefer Rising Flash though, especially if vertical stages like Tomodachi end up legal. Freeze is just unfortunate. If it's gonna move as slow as default Flash, I'd rather have the one that kills.

PSI Magnet: I note that Forward Magnet seems to have slightly longer ending lag, but if it does in fact have bigger range overall than the default then yes it is likely the better option. Speaking of options, I feel PSI Vacuum is just lacking. Outside of trapping people in Bonfire I feel like any reason to use this move is covered by a different move that does it better. Perhaps there could be some shenanigans with the pull effect though. Some quick fooling around in training shows that it pulls airborne foes past Ness pretty quickly, which could throw some people off.

PK Thunder seems mostly preferential/matchup dependent. I don't have much to add beyond what you said.

 

[thesage]

I actually am starting to have second doubts about fire burst. It feels like it's unsafer than pk fire.

FYI pk flash is at full power the minute it goes downwards.

Marth and Lucina can activate counter while being burned by the pk fire pillar. I've noticed other characters (like Peach) can easily jump out of the pillar. Some characters with fast jabs can even spam jab while they are being burned. While Ness has answers to all of these, it still sucks that pk fire is still not a move that works 100% despite how risky it is.