Ness and Lucas 2v2 Advice

[PK Nasty]

My friend and i are trying to get good in Team battles using ness and lucas, any advice for this PK team?

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

Don't let your opponents recover for free, cheese them hard by healing yourselves with PSI Magnet and PK Flash / Freeze since Team Attack is on in Doubles.

From experience, if you're lucky, you can heal your teammate and waste your opponent, all at the same time, in one glorious, fully charged, PK Flash

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

If you're trying to play For Glory teams, there are a lot of dirty plays you can try.
Ness/Lucas have quite a lot of synergy to help each other defend and attack.

• Because team attack is off in online matchmaking, the metagame favors projectiles... hard.
• Ness and Lucas have some pretty great projectiles, but Ness' are slow and punishable, and Lucas' are hard to follow-up with, despite being fast. However, when these two spam together, things average out nicely in their favor.
• Ness' PK Fire is significantly easier to land by air when there are short hopped PK Fires (Lucas') covering the ground from below.
• Lucas' zair -> grab / PK Fire spacing can push people to the air, where Ness will dominate. Assign these roles and stick to them.Lucas should be ensuring safe landings for Ness, and Ness should be ensuring air superiority.
• PK Freeze can allow Ness to set up PKT2, and Ness' PK Fire can chain into Lucas' nair, for maximum damage output from both moves, while holding the opponent until Ness is ready for the follow-up.
• If Lucas successfully lands a flyby PKT2 on one or more opponents, this will give Ness just enough time to PKT2 into Lucas and his cargo, for maximum salt-factor. (Yay for Team-Attack-Off cheese!)
• Hitstun is highly exploitable, too, when playing without team attack on. Lucas' nair is, for all of Ness' intents and purposes, an aerial PK Fire that's a lot more spammable and harder to punish. Ness can do anything he wants to an opponent trapped in Lucas' nair. Ness can exploit PK Fire's hitstun more, too, since Lucas will have no fear of friendly fire.

Lastly, grabs:
• Both Ness/Lucas have laggy down throws that hold the enemy down for a bit before bouncing them up.
• This is actually bad in team games, since it makes the thrower vulnerable and immobile, too.
• However, if you cover your teammate when they go in for a grab by throwing out PK Fire, you force shielding (ensuring the grab succeeds) and you can protect against the teammate's attempt to interrupt the grab.
• Also noteworthy, Ness' down throw has a hitbox that injures anyone that gets too close. Ness should be the one making the 2-on-1 grab scenarios more than Lucas, because he can damage both with a single grab.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

If you're trying to play For Glory teams, there are a lot of dirty plays you can try.
Ness/Lucas have quite a lot of synergy to help each other defend and attack.

• Because team attack is off in online matchmaking, the metagame favors projectiles... hard.
• Ness and Lucas have some pretty great projectiles, but Ness' are slow and punishable, and Lucas' are hard to follow-up with, despite being fast. However, when these two spam together, things average out nicely in their favor.
• Ness' PK Fire is significantly easier to land by air when there are short hopped PK Fires (Lucas') covering the ground from below.
• Lucas' zair -> grab / PK Fire spacing can push people to the air, where Ness will dominate. Assign these roles and stick to them.Lucas should be ensuring safe landings for Ness, and Ness should be ensuring air superiority.
• PK Freeze can allow Ness to set up PKT2, and Ness' PK Fire can chain into Lucas' nair, for maximum damage output from both moves, while holding the opponent until Ness is ready for the follow-up.
• If Lucas successfully lands a flyby PKT2 on one or more opponents, this will give Ness just enough time to PKT2 into Lucas and his cargo, for maximum salt-factor. (Yay for Team-Attack-Off cheese!)
• Hitstun is highly exploitable, too, when playing without team attack on. Lucas' nair is, for all of Ness' intents and purposes, an aerial PK Fire that's a lot more spammable and harder to punish. Ness can do anything he wants to an opponent trapped in Lucas' nair. Ness can exploit PK Fire's hitstun more, too, since Lucas will have no fear of friendly fire.

Lastly, grabs:
• Both Ness/Lucas have laggy down throws that hold the enemy down for a bit before bouncing them up.
• This is actually bad in team games, since it makes the thrower vulnerable and immobile, too.
• However, if you cover your teammate when they go in for a grab by throwing out PK Fire, you force shielding (ensuring the grab succeeds) and you can protect against the teammate's attempt to interrupt the grab.
• Also noteworthy, Ness' down throw has a hitbox that injures anyone that gets too close. Ness should be the one making the 2-on-1 grab scenarios more than Lucas, because he can damage both with a single grab.

Some of this is highly dependent on PK Nasty sticking to For Glory. By the way PK Nasty , what exactly are you practicing for? Real life tournaments, friendlies, or FG? However, I'll quote the general consensus of Reddit's SmashBros IRC that I frequent by saying that one does not "git gud" in For Glory, especially because as you pointed out, Team Attack is off (official tournament rules have it on, and that forces you to play entirely different since you must be mindful of your teammate at all times) and that For Glory is pretty much for scrubs. Training in FG solo is slightly more beneficial than fighting bots, slightly, because of a lot of bad habits your opponent will exhibit. In teams, it's counterproductive because you're allowed to play with an entirely different style and mindset than tournaments allow. You don't take away much that you can apply on a competitive level.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Some of this is highly dependent on PK Nasty sticking to For Glory.

All of it was entirely dependent on sticking to For Glory.

If you're new to Smash, or even just Smash 4, For Glory can be exactly the trial by fire you'd want as you learn the mechanics and build knowledge of the game.
Few competitive players learned Smash in a vacuum.
PK Nasty may just want the best possible strategies for winning online, and from the way they phrased it "Team Battles," it seemed so.

Smashboards is a place where many people come to learn from the highest levels of play, to enhance their experience at their level of play.
It is important to remember that not every question fielded will be specific to tournament play, but the technical and conceptual information is universal within the game itself.

 

[PK Nasty]

All of it was entirely dependent on sticking to For Glory.

If you're new to Smash, or even just Smash 4, For Glory can be exactly the trial by fire you'd want as you learn the mechanics and build knowledge of the game.
Few competitive players learned Smash in a vacuum.
PK Nasty may just want the best possible strategies for winning online, and from the way they phrased it "Team Battles," it seemed so.

Smashboards is a place where many people come to learn from the highest levels of play, to enhance their experience at their level of play.
It is important to remember that not every question fielded will be specific to tournament play, but the technical and conceptual information is universal within the game itself.

 

[PK Nasty]

All of it was entirely dependent on sticking to For Glory.

If you're new to Smash, or even just Smash 4, For Glory can be exactly the trial by fire you'd want as you learn the mechanics and build knowledge of the game.
Few competitive players learned Smash in a vacuum.
PK Nasty may just want the best possible strategies for winning online, and from the way they phrased it "Team Battles," it seemed so.

Smashboards is a place where many people come to learn from the highest levels of play, to enhance their experience at their level of play.
It is important to remember that not every question fielded will be specific to tournament play, but the technical and conceptual information is universal within the game itself.

All of it was entirely dependent on sticking to For Glory.

If you're new to Smash, or even just Smash 4, For Glory can be exactly the trial by fire you'd want as you learn the mechanics and build knowledge of the game.
Few competitive players learned Smash in a vacuum.
PK Nasty may just want the best possible strategies for winning online, and from the way they phrased it "Team Battles," it seemed so.

Smashboards is a place where many people come to learn from the highest levels of play, to enhance their experience at their level of play.
It is important to remember that not every question fielded will be specific to tournament play, but the technical and conceptual information is universal within the game itself.

We're playing with tournament rules but your advice won't go to waste, now I have so many things to try. Thanks a lot for the help I got more than I expected.

 

[Asa]

For healing, pkt is more reliable to heal Lucas, while pk freeze is more reliable to heal Ness.

Healing is definitely the main gimmick the team has, so learning all the spots to get quick heals in is important.

PK freeze is good for a couple reasons:
1. Has a nice hitbox, That can stun the opponents for more healing.
2. Travels a good distance horizontally so lucas can do it fairly safely.

NessPKT is the preferred projectile because it's more flexible, and travels faster. Lucas has a healing factor of 2.5(?) so he'll get a lot more out of smaller heals than ness would. Also the fact that Lucas's magnet has a hitbox gives some nice shield pressure and safety when combined with a PKT.

As for pk flash, it's better used uncharged. Just have the Lucas jump when you use it and he'll heal a good amount and you won't be immobile for as long.