Ness 2.5 Match-up Discussion-- Current Discussion Sheik

[BJN39]

This thread seems to be the only MU based one here right now, so I'll post this here.

So I'm doing this project on the Zelda boards for MUs where I ask people who have experience on both character boards to give their ratios for the MU.

In this case, I mean the Ness:Zelda MU. @ Anyone who has MU experience here as Ness playing against Zelda, what do you think the MU ratio is?

 

[The_NZA]

Well, here's some things I'd contribute. First, a couple videos of matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XCqF1PG0a4
Me (The NZA) vs. Zhime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNlfGzZJNT0
Me (The NZA) vs. Salem

 

[choknater]

nice sets. looks like an annoying matchup

zhime looks like a very strategy-based player and makes decisions based on a game plan. reminds me of playing dormammu in marvel. salem, on the other hand, was focusing more on spacing and punishing, which is why he was more dominant even though his tech with zelda is not as advanced.

your offense is amazing man, but i think u can afford to just patiently full hop or dash dance around and wait for an opportunity. even though zelda's din's fire are everywhere, it is a risk for her because we can easily absorb them. zelda cannot really assert her own offense very well, so i think if u just cool down a little bit and wait for her to come to you, you will find many more opportunities.

like, zelda's teleports are a cool way for her to get in, but they are not really the best tool for spacing intricacies. especially if u full hop, she can only do teleport wavedash on the ground, so she can't do anything to approach u in the air, and ness has air superiority.

ness' recovery is really good so u go unpunished a lot for going crazy off the edge.. i think it could work for u but sometimes i think ur just going crazy LOL




anyway, so my local area is having a tournament March 1, it's 99% confirmed... hopefully i will give u guys some nice videos, i will be most likely fighting against the ganon and mario matchups

 

[BJN39]

Well, here's some things I'd contribute. First, a couple videos of matches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XCqF1PG0a4
Me (The NZA) vs. Zhime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNlfGzZJNT0
Me (The NZA) vs. Salem

nice sets. looks like an annoying matchup

zhime looks like a very strategy-based player and makes decisions based on a game plan. reminds me of playing dormammu in marvel. salem, on the other hand, was focusing more on spacing and punishing, which is why he was more dominant even though his tech with zelda is not as advanced.

your offense is amazing man, but i think u can afford to just patiently full hop or dash dance around and wait for an opportunity. even though zelda's din's fire are everywhere, it is a risk for her because we can easily absorb them. zelda cannot really assert her own offense very well, so i think if u just cool down a little bit and wait for her to come to you, you will find many more opportunities.

like, zelda's teleports are a cool way for her to get in, but they are not really the best tool for spacing intricacies. especially if u full hop, she can only do teleport wavedash on the ground, so she can't do anything to approach u in the air, and ness has air superiority.

ness' recovery is really good so u go unpunished a lot for going crazy off the edge.. i think it could work for u but sometimes i think ur just going crazy LOL

anyway, so my local area is having a tournament March 1, it's 99% confirmed... hopefully i will give u guys some nice videos, i will be most likely fighting against the ganon and mario matchups

So...

what do you think the MU ratio is?

 

[The_NZA]

Personally, I think its 35-65 Ness-Zelda.

I see it as a little easier than Ness v. Marth and Ness v. Link which I see as 30-70s.

 

[choknater]

really? i think ness does fine vs marth

just gotta play like mango... u run up, shield all day

to bait out a poorly spaced aerial, then punish out of shield with nair, dair, or shield grab

i personally haven't experienced any bad matchups for ness yet.. but u guys have more exp than me soooooo

 

[thesage]

What buffs did Link receive from Melee? The melee Link vs. Ness matchup was pretty close.

 

[The_NZA]

What buffs did Link receive from Melee? The melee Link vs. Ness matchup was pretty close.

The biggest issue is a MUCH stronger projectile game (super fast boomerang), safe hookshot pressure, and really good comboability and range on his sword attacks. While theoretically a Ness can get massive punishes on link becuase of Link's weight, Link is one of the hardest opponents to get a hit on. Link neutral game is just way way stronger than Ness's. He's also a good deal harder to edge guard, IMO but edgeguarding Link is something I'm not so good at yet.

 

[thesage]

In melee you could tailwhip the tether to cheese him while he's coming up with it or pkt him to turn him around while he's recovering so that he can't use it and the pk flash or dair him for an easy kill. I haven't played any Links at all in p:m lol. If you remove his tether recovery from the equation he's really easy to edgeguard with pk flash so try to figure out a way to knock him offstage again after he's used it. He can turn around using a boomerang or a bomb but that adds to his recovery time and makes him recover lower.

 

[The_NZA]

In melee you could tailwhip the tether to cheese him while he's coming up with it or pkt him to turn him around while he's recovering so that he can't use it and the pk flash or dair him for an easy kill. I haven't played any Links at all in p:m lol. If you remove his tether recovery from the equation he's really easy to edgeguard with pk flash so try to figure out a way to knock him offstage again after he's used it. He can turn around using a boomerang or a bomb but that adds to his recovery time and makes him recover lower.

Well, he has a lot of counterplay. I do like turning him around with a pk thunder but Link players now use glide tossing as a staple of thier recovery. That means a Link always has a bomb in his hand, and he can change his momentum on a dime.

That means hitting him with a pkthunder can be hard, but he can also hold onto the bomb, get hit by the pkthunder, and then throw it towards the stage to turn himself around. Like you said, that makes him recover lower which is good, but then you need to decide if you want to edge hog, or CC through his upb hits. He's not impossible, but he isn't easy either.

 

[SoniCraft]

Shouldn't the title be updated to 3.02?

 

[Bryonato]

Yeah honestly I think I'm just going to create a new mu discussion thread since Soft Serve has moved on to bigger and better characters.

 

[BJN39]

EDIT, whoops! wrong Ness thread. > _ <

 

[Bryonato]

yup new thread is here now let this one die muahaha rip

http://smashboards.com/threads/mu-thread-v2-pm-3-02-ness-matchup-discussion-this-week-marth.348412

 

[choknater]

rip in peace