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Neither enemy nor friend... - Cyborg Ninja for Brawl

Chief Mendez

Smash Master
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Cyborg Ninja/Gray Fox/Frank Jaeger: The ONLY choice for a second Metal Gear Solid fighter.

//////////////////////////////////////

---Wikipedia Summary---

Gray Fox (Frank Jaeger) is a FOXHOUND agent and a friend of Solid Snake, introduced in Metal Gear.

In Metal Gear, he disappears after sending a cryptic message about a "METAL GEAR," and Solid Snake, the protagonist, must save him and learn from him about the enemy superweapon, codenamed "Metal Gear".

In the sequel, Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, Gray Fox once again disappears, but turns out to have defected to the side of the antagonist, Big Boss. However, Gray Fox secretly assists Snake by leaving him anonymous tips over his radio. Solid Snake confronts and seemingly kills Gray Fox in a final fistfight to the death in a minefield.

In Metal Gear Solid, a Cyborg Ninja in a powered exoskeleton and armed with a high-frequency blade (a high-tech katana), confronts Solid Snake. Help comes from a mysterious ally, code-named "Deepthroat," giving Snake cryptic advice via CODEC. They both turn out to be Gray Fox, who challenges Snake to a final duel. This battle isn't to the death, however; Cyborg Ninja instead later gives his life to help Solid Snake destroy Metal Gear REX.

Just as Metal Gear Solid eclipsed its predecessors in popularity, the Cyborg Ninja turned out to be much more of a fan favorite than Gray Fox in his original form. The Cyborg Ninja has appeared in a number of games after Metal Gear Solid, either as crossover appearances in other games, or in the form of other mysterious characters in later Metal Gear games.
(From Wikipedia)

//////////////////////////////////////

---Videos---
Versus Ocelot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ya3feP_xDc&mode=related&search=
(60% of this is the conversation with Kenneth Baker, be warned. Also, slight dismemberment.)

Versus Genomes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYp1as3liIE&mode=related&search=
(At mark 0:57, you can see his "Shadow Draw". Also, there's alot of blood in this.)

Versus Snake: Still looking for this one...

Versus Rex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuCh4ejrA4E
(Possibly even more blood than the Genome vid. Also, spoilers, but you've already beaten MGS1, right?)

//////////////////////////////////////

---My Arguments---
If Snake is to be granted a partner in Brawl, it should be the Cyborg Ninja. But before I get ahead of myself, let it be known that the only argument I concede to is that 3rd party characters might not warrant enough importance to be given other characters. To put it in another light; Nintendo might decide to reserve the limited third party roster spots for characters from different companies and/or franchises. I certainly wouldn't complain if Simon Belmont or Viewtiful Joe was selected in favor of Gray Fox.

Other than that, which I can see not happening, there's no viable reason Cyborg Ninja/Gray Fox shouldn't be included.

I've heard people asking for Liquid, but Gray Fox is clearly the best choice for a second MGS character. He has a huge fanbase, has appeared in almost all of the Metal Gear games in some capacity, and would really work well in Brawl.

4-12-07 Update --- Each major franchise that has a clearly defined antagonist has said antagonist either already in Brawl, already in Melee (and therefore very likely to return), or are so important as villains that there's no way they won't appear in Brawl.

//////////////////////////////////////

---The Moveset---


"I am like you; I have no name."

-Melee (A) Attacks-
A - Straight left punch
AA - Straight left, then straight right punches
AAA - The two punches above, followed by a backwards spin kick

Dash+A - Gray skids along the ground, left foot leading, then thrusts both palms forwards to attack

Side+A - A kick similar to his AAA finisher, only his foot leaps out once, then bends back toward him, then strikes out again
Up+A - Legs parted, Gray pulls back his arm, then drives it upward while keeping both feet planted
Down+A - A forward leg sweep that trips the enemy

Side Smash+A - Gray leaps forwards, delivering a single-spin roundhouse kick
Up Smash+A - Gray rests his shoulders on the ground, pulls his knees into his chest, then thrusts his feet upwards
Down Smash+A - Gray slams his fist into the ground ahead of him

Neutral Air - A slicing hand chop delivered horizontally
Forward Air - A lateral spinning heel chop with Gray's left foot
Backward Air - A backhand punch from Gray's left fist
Up Air - A single-footed flip kick
Down Air - A one-foot stomp that sends Gray into fastfall. Likened to Downward Thrust (Link) because it's not a single hit like C. Falcon's.

Grab - Using one arm, Gray reaches out ahead of him
Running Grab - Gray's arm arches over his head and reaches out (more lag)
Grab Hit - (Gray holds his opponent in one hand once grabbed) Hits the enemy in the face with quick jabs
Throw Forward - Gray tosses the enemy in front of him, then axe kicks them into the ground ahead of him
Throw Backward - Gray spins around, launching the enemy overhand behind him
Throw Upward - Holding the enemy by the collar, Gray winds upthen delivers a wicked uppercut, sending the opponent upwards
Throw Downward - Drops the enemy on the ground, then disappears. Reappears a split-second later above them, landing with both feet on his prone adversary

-Special (B) Moves-

B - Shadow Draw: During any maneuver outside of Gray's Brawl attack, grabs, and ledge grabs, pressing B by itself causes Gray to flick his HF blade in front of him, too fast for the human eye to se anything but a silver blur. Think Fox's blaster, only hand-to-hand and usable during other moves.
Side+B - Afterimage: Gray's "eye" flares red, and a ghostly image of him flys forwards, doing nothing but disappearing after about 10ft. If it does make contact, the image changes to a picture of him attacking with his sword, and knocks back the target while damaging it. (If you Smash this, 3 images are sent high, middle, and low, though they only go half as far)
Up+B - Apparition: Gray slips his index and middle fingers in front of his face, then teleports to a location dictated by the control stick. No damage. Think Farore's Wind with considerably less lag.
Down+B - Substitution: Gray's eye lights up and he takes on a defensive crouch, sword drawn. When hit by anything in this position, he disappears, then reappears behind the attacker (no matter where he is). The exception is thrown items, which causes him to reappear right where he was. Note that he can't attack immediately after reappearing.

Super Smash/Brawl Attack - "Retribution": Gray's eye burns bright, and his exoskeleton freaks out (lots of blue, flickering afterimages). During this time, if Gray makes physical contact with an opponent, he reappears behind them, saying "over here...", then delivers his powerful thrust punch; the same one that he uses against Snake during the fight in MGS1 when attacked while standing still. Insane lateral knockback and damage.

-Other-

Taunt - Ninja holds out his sword at his waist and tilts his head back, saying; "I've come from another world to do battle with you." He returns to his normal stance right after "battle".

Kirby - Kirby wears Gray Fox's mask and suit, but the faceplate is gone, so we can see a sickly white Kirby underneath.

Winning Phrase 1 - Gray grips his helmet and stumbles about, saying "I...I...I'm losing myself!"
Winning Phrase 2 - Gray fox holds his sword straight outin front of his chest, then puts it away, saying "Only a fool trusts his life to a weapon."

//////////////////////////////////////

So, what do you guys think? Remember, I already concede that he might not make it on the grounds that there's already a MGS fighter in Brawl, so...
 

Junaur

Smash Apprentice
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I actually like what you did with his moveset. But... isn't he a tad too violent?
 

Chief Mendez

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I actually like what you did with his moveset. But... isn't he a tad too violent?
Personally, I'd thought everyone in MG to be too violent for a game like Smash Bros., but hey, we've got Snake (anyone remember Guy Savage?) in. And given the absence of (well, almost all of) Snake's ballistics, I think it's safe to assume that it isn't an issue to Sakurai.
 

Weej

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 8, 2007
Messages
25
Couldn't agree any more that he needs to be in, but i don't like your moveset at all. HE needs a whole lotta sword action with A attacks, and more stealthy attacks with the B button. Also, his shield should be invisible, like it is in the second video mindez posted.

he should be ultra stealthy...
 

Chief Mendez

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Couldn't agree any more that he needs to be in, but i don't like your moveset at all. HE needs a whole lotta sword action with A attacks, and more stealthy attacks with the B button. Also, his shield should be invisible, like it is in the second video mindez posted.

he should be ultra stealthy...
I'll add the shield thing to his moveset. Anyway, I know where you're coming from with the sword thing, but in MGS1, at least when you fought him, it was all about hand to hand. I like the idea of him only using his blade for B moves, because it reflects that. Remember, "only a fool trusts his life to a weapon".

Oh, and I did search the forums for Gray Fox and Cyborg Ninja...so there.
 

Genesis Zero

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
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I think his taunt should b him looking in the air and having one of his static sezures! And his winning phrase could b. "Make me feel it! Make me feel alive again!" or "I am like you...I have no name."
 

Master.Lord.Marth.

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Oh, and I did search the forums for Gray Fox and Cyborg Ninja...so there.
Sighs...i know i've seen them:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=81599&highlight=gray+fox

The idea of adding gray fox as a secret character.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=93403&highlight=grey+fox

Another grey fox for brawl, but it got locked down.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=84810&highlight=grey+fox

Another one talking about gray fox compatibility to smash.

The catch here was that many people spelled gray fox "grey fox" so maybe thats why it didnt come up in your search. But like i said, i like this thread much better. I dont know, maybe we will get gray fox.
 

Chief Mendez

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Sighs...i know i've seen them:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=81599&highlight=gray+fox

The idea of adding gray fox as a secret character.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=93403&highlight=grey+fox

Another grey fox for brawl, but it got locked down.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=84810&highlight=grey+fox

Another one talking about gray fox compatibility to smash.

The catch here was that many people spelled gray fox "grey fox" so maybe thats why it didnt come up in your search. But like i said, i like this thread much better. I dont know, maybe we will get gray fox.
Ah- ha! Proper grammar always wins out in the end!
 

Chief Mendez

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I think his taunt should b him looking in the air and having one of his static sezures! And his winning phrase could b. "Make me feel it! Make me feel alive again!" or "I am like you...I have no name."
Soon as I get to something besides my Wii's browser, I'll change his winning phrases. I don't really like the first one I gave him, so I'm going to work in what you suggested there.
 

cyberdemon

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Please people, stop fooling yourselves, Snake is the only one in the metal gear franchise that's coming to Brawl (as it wasn't obvious enough), so don't even bother...
 

Chief Mendez

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Please people, stop fooling yourselves, Snake is the only one in the metal gear franchise that's coming to Brawl (as it wasn't obvious enough), so don't even bother...
It's so obvious how, exactly? No one saw Snake coming, so don't rule out anything.
 

cyberdemon

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Messages
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It's so obvious how, exactly? No one saw Snake coming, so don't rule out anything.
Well, Sakurai said there will be at most 3 third party characters, one of them is Snake, the other 2 aren't confirmed.
So, what makes you think they're going to waste another third party slot, on a character whose franchise has already been represented by Snake?
So, don't expect seeing any metal gear characters other than Snake.
 

Chief Mendez

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Well, Sakurai said there will be at most 3 third party characters, one of them is Snake, the other 2 aren't confirmed.
So, what makes you think they're going to waste another third party slot, on a character whose franchise has already been represented by Snake?
So, don't expect seeing any metal gear characters other than Snake.
Cuz' Kojima and Sakurai are tight like that.

Let's say things don't work out with SEGA, or Capcom, or whoever. If those spots are open, then why not another MGS character? Don't misunderstand; I'd really like a Capcom character, but at the same time, I'd rather see Ninja than Sonic. Most of that's personal opinion, so I'll end with this: Cyborg Ninja's a good character in the event that other 3rd party deals fall through.
 

shadenexus18

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Grey Fox for the freakin win! Brawl lacks ninjas and we need all the shinobi that we can muster. As my brother would say, the high frequency blade is an indication of ninja ****.
 

El HP

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Doubtful since there's already a metal gear character, Ryu Hayabusa should be the ninja of choice for brawl especially with the recently announced Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword for DS.
 

Chief Mendez

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Doubtful since there's already a metal gear character, Ryu Hayabusa should be the ninja of choice for brawl especially with the recently announced Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword for DS.
Except that TECMO isn't exactly best friends forever with Nintendo (like, say, Capcom). Anyone who knows anything can tell you the only reason Dragon Sword is on the DS is because of the immense user base.
 

shadenexus18

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It could happen if, and only if other gaming companies like Capcom, Namco, and Sega don't want associate themselves with Nintendo and SSBB for whatever reason.
 

El HP

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Except that TECMO isn't exactly best friends forever with Nintendo (like, say, Capcom). Anyone who knows anything can tell you the only reason Dragon Sword is on the DS is because of the immense user base.
Konami is not Nintendo's best friend either but there is Snake I know he is an special case but there he is.
 

Chief Mendez

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It could happen if, and only if other gaming companies like Capcom, Namco, and Sega don't want associate themselves with Nintendo and SSBB for whatever reason.
Granted.

And yeah, Snake is a special case. But don't forget that before the "Solid" moniker took over, he was a Nintendo standard. Plus, there's Twin Snakes...but that probably doesn't mean much.
 

shadenexus18

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I thank God for Solid Snake and Hideo Kojima, for if they didn't include Snake on Brawl, then I really don't think that there would be any 3rd party combatants for Brawl. Only because it seemed that every other company was going to be extremely lazy to make an effort. Ha Ha! Adding Snake sure got there attention didn't it!?

At least, I hope it got there attention...
 

Chief Mendez

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I thank God for Solid Snake and Hideo Kojima, for if they didn't include Snake on Brawl, then I really don't think that there would be any 3rd party combatants for Brawl. Only because it seemed that every other company was going to be extremely lazy to make an effort. Ha Ha! Adding Snake sure got there attention didn't it!?

At least, I hope it got there attention...
We'll definitely be getting other third party characters (who wouldn't want the publicity?), the question is which company wants it the most, and whether Sakurai wants said company's character in the game.
 

Stryks

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Im hopin we got 2 3rd party characters per company, meaning we can get:

Sonic and knuckles
Megaman and bass
snake and gray fox

gray fox would be my main in a hearthbeat lol hes just that awesome...
 

Chief Mendez

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Im hopin we got 2 3rd party characters per company, meaning we can get:

Sonic and knuckles
Megaman and bass
snake and gray fox

gray fox would be my main in a hearthbeat lol hes just that awesome...
Don't you mean "Joe and Alastor"? Seriously though, I doubt we'll get that many. Sakurai said "2 or 3 more" after Snake, and with Kojima all buddy-buddy with the director, I think if any 3rdP franchise gets a second, it'll be Metal Gear.
 

Stryks

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doubt it, it wouldnt be fair if konami gets 2 characters, and the other company gets just 1, so I say only 1 character per company...
 

Zarasai

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yeah i think the best way would be to have 2-3 entirely different companies. adds a bit more to the variety of characters currently confirmed in brawl and the good old ones from SSBM
 

notftomearth7

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Cyborg Ninja/Gray Fox/Frank Jaeger: The ONLY choice for a second Metal Gear Solid fighter.

//////////////////////////////////////

---Wikipedia Summary---

Gray Fox (Frank Jaeger) is a FOXHOUND agent and a friend of Solid Snake, introduced in Metal Gear.

In Metal Gear, he disappears after sending a cryptic message about a "METAL GEAR," and Solid Snake, the protagonist, must save him and learn from him about the enemy superweapon, codenamed "Metal Gear".

In the sequel, Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, Gray Fox once again disappears, but turns out to have defected to the side of the antagonist, Big Boss. However, Gray Fox secretly assists Snake by leaving him anonymous tips over his radio. Solid Snake confronts and seemingly kills Gray Fox in a final fistfight to the death in a minefield.

In Metal Gear Solid, a Cyborg Ninja in a powered exoskeleton and armed with a high-frequency blade (a high-tech katana), confronts Solid Snake. Help comes from a mysterious ally, code-named "Deepthroat," giving Snake cryptic advice via CODEC. They both turn out to be Gray Fox, who challenges Snake to a final duel. This battle isn't to the death, however; Cyborg Ninja instead later gives his life to help Solid Snake destroy Metal Gear REX.

Just as Metal Gear Solid eclipsed its predecessors in popularity, the Cyborg Ninja turned out to be much more of a fan favorite than Gray Fox in his original form. The Cyborg Ninja has appeared in a number of games after Metal Gear Solid, either as crossover appearances in other games, or in the form of other mysterious characters in later Metal Gear games.
(From Wikipedia)

//////////////////////////////////////

---Videos---
Versus Ocelot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ya3feP_xDc&mode=related&search=
(60% of this is the conversation with Kenneth Baker, be warned. Also, slight dismemberment.)

Versus Genomes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYp1as3liIE&mode=related&search=
(At mark 0:57, you can see his "Shadow Draw". Also, there's alot of blood in this.)

Versus Snake: Still looking for this one...

Versus Rex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuCh4ejrA4E
(Possibly even more blood than the Genome vid. Also, spoilers, but you've already beaten MGS1, right?)

//////////////////////////////////////

---My Arguments---
If Snake is to be granted a partner in Brawl, it should be the Cyborg Ninja. But before I get ahead of myself, let it be known that the only argument I concede to is that 3rd party characters might not warrant enough importance to be given other characters. To put it in another light; Nintendo might decide to reserve the limited third party roster spots for characters from different companies and/or franchises. I certainly wouldn't complain if Simon Belmont or Viewtiful Joe was selected in favor of Gray Fox.

Other than that, which I can see not happening, there's no viable reason Cyborg Ninja/Gray Fox shouldn't be included.

I've heard people asking for Liquid, but Gray Fox is clearly the best choice for a second MGS character. He has a huge fanbase, has appeared in almost all of the Metal Gear games in some capacity, and would really work well in Brawl.

//////////////////////////////////////

---The Moveset---


"I am like you; I have no name."

-Melee (A) Attacks-
A - Straight left punch
AA - Straight left, then straight right punches
AAA - The two punches above, followed by a backwards spin kick

Dash+A - Gray skids along the ground, left foot leading, then thrusts both palms forwards to attack

Side+A - A kick similar to his AAA finisher, only his foot leaps out once, then bends back toward him, then strikes out again
Up+A - Legs parted, Gray pulls back his arm, then drives it upward while keeping both feet planted
Down+A - A forward leg sweep that trips the enemy

Side Smash+A - Gray leaps forwards, delivering a single-spin roundhouse kick
Up Smash+A - Gray rests his shoulders on the ground, pulls his knees into his chest, then thrusts his feet upwards
Down Smash+A - Gray slams his fist into the ground ahead of him

Neutral Air - A slicing hand chop delivered horizontally
Forward Air - A lateral spinning heel chop with Gray's left foot
Backward Air - A backhand punch from Gray's left fist
Up Air - A single-footed flip kick
Down Air - A one-foot stomp that sends Gray into fastfall. Likened to Downward Thrust (Link) because it's not a single hit like C. Falcon's.

Grab - Using one arm, Gray reaches out ahead of him
Running Grab - Gray's arm arches over his head and reaches out (more lag)
Grab Hit - (Gray holds his opponent in one hand once grabbed) Hits the enemy in the face with quick jabs
Throw Forward - Gray tosses the enemy in front of him, then axe kicks them into the ground ahead of him
Throw Backward - Gray spins around, launching the enemy overhand behind him
Throw Upward - Holding the enemy by the collar, Gray winds upthen delivers a wicked uppercut, sending the opponent upwards
Throw Downward - Drops the enemy on the ground, then disappears. Reappears a split-second later above them, landing with both feet on his prone adversary

-Special (B) Moves-

B - Shadow Draw: During any maneuver outside of Gray's Brawl attack, grabs, and ledge grabs, pressing B by itself causes Gray to flick his HF blade in front of him, too fast for the human eye to se anything but a silver blur. Think Fox's blaster, only hand-to-hand and usable during other moves.
Side+B - Afterimage: Gray's "eye" flares red, and a ghostly image of him flys forwards, doing nothing but disappearing after about 10ft. If it does make contact, the image changes to a picture of him attacking with his sword, and knocks back the target while damaging it. (If you Smash this, 3 images are sent high, middle, and low, though they only go half as far)
Up+B - Apparition: Gray slips his index and middle fingers in front of his face, then teleports to a location dictated by the control stick. No damage. Think Farore's Wind with considerably less lag.
Down+B - Substitution: Gray's eye lights up and he takes on a defensive crouch, sword drawn. When hit by anything in this position, he disappears, then reappears behind the attacker (no matter where he is). The exception is thrown items, which causes him to reappear right where he was. Note that he can't attack immediately after reappearing.

Super Smash/Brawl Attack - "Retribution": Gray's eye burns bright, and his exoskeleton freaks out (lots of blue, flickering afterimages). During this time, if Gray makes physical contact with an opponent, he reappears behind them, saying "over here...", then delivers his powerful thrust punch; the same one that he uses against Snake during the fight in MGS1 when attacked while standing still. Insane lateral knockback and damage.

-Other-

Taunt - Ninja holds out his sword at his waist and tilts his head back, saying; "I've come from another world to do battle with you." He returns to his normal stance right after "battle".

Kirby - Kirby wears Gray Fox's mask and suit, but the faceplate is gone, so we can see a sickly white Kirby underneath.

Winning Phrase 1 - Gray grips his helmet and stumbles about, saying "I...I...I'm losing myself!"
Winning Phrase 2 - Gray fox holds his sword straight outin front of his chest, then puts it away, saying "Only a fool trusts his life to a weapon."

//////////////////////////////////////

So, what do you guys think? Remember, I already concede that he might not make it on the grounds that there's already a MGS fighter in Brawl, so...

He's going to get in, no doubt. Every major franchise has a villan of some sorts. Ninjas are cool 2, and...yea
 

Chief Mendez

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Hey...that actually makes sense! Mario, Zelda, Metroid (suspected), and so on...they all have bad guys in the roster. I mean, I think the 3rd party's lack of priority discussed before still overrides this, but it helps.
 

NukeA6

Smash Master
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May 17, 2002
Messages
3,103


DECONFIRMED!

But look at the bright side; he is one best ATs.
 
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