Need suggestions for a tournament organizer

[The Game II]

warning, long *** post

I gave my thoughts to this fellow tournament organizer, and I told him I would ask the community for their input as well.

From what I can tell, I don't think anyone here knows of Primetime Gamers. It's part of the Ballers Club Alliance (they run the annual $10,000 Mega Bowl).

The tournament organizer wants to run tournaments besides Madden, and I told him Melee and Brawl. The benefits: lots of people play (will play, if it's Brawl), and people will carpool just to participate. I told him about how big the Melee scene is, where people drive all over the state to participate in events, and it will likely be the same with Brawl. He does not want to pick a game where he would have to advertise all over SoCal, and Melee seems to be the perfect fit - it would get play here and on my site.

Just so you know, the tournament would take place at El Dorado Lanes in Westchester (El Segundo). Good sized space, there's a Ralphs next door and you can buy food at the diner within the venue (pretty good chicken tenders and potato wedges), and you can go bowling after you get 4-stocked. Don't ask about moving the tournament to another location because it won't happen.

How much is he willing to do this? He is willing to buy Wiis and MLG-like TVs and put up $1,000 to the top three for singles.

What? Yes.

I asked him how much he would put up and he said $1,000 and didn't blink (the winners would be looking at 600/300/100).

Don't worry about the rules. I would "run" the tournament, so when I say stop playing, don't make me disconnect your controller, LOL.

And now, here's where I need your input.

The TO and I could not come to terms on an entry fee. Of course, you might have your own price, but this is the caveat.

THIS IS A FOR-PROFIT TOURNAMENT.

Now, I think I've said it before, I absolutely do not support for-profit tournaments unless you are a league. This is an exception because Primetime Gamers is a good organization.

I told him the best players will not care, they'll come anyway. But that second-tier level of players will not come if it's too high of a price. And those kids who don't buy pizza and chips at school during the week just so they can play in a tournament would turn away at a high price.

The problem is that Madden players do not blink at the $40-60 entry fee, and that's with the best player in the nation competing. So he's hoping for a parallel with the Melee/Brawl community.

He's trying to find an entry fee that will draw players but in the end, he walks home with something.

I started at $15, no dice. I'm trying to do quick math here ... looks like 67 would be needed to get the $1,000 mark. So I bet it would need to be a 100-person tourney at that rate to make him happy, and that's Major status (by my stats, the Buena Park PNT tourney got 83 people in July I think and they gave just a Wii to the winner, no cash prizes, so it is possible).

I then mentioned $20 and then he said, "I want to make something out of this." LOL. Quick math again ... 50 people to get $1,000, so he's probably thinking to get 70 at this price.

And then I made my defense against going over $20. But again, he's running a for-profit tournament so I see where he's coming from.

If he still says no to under-25, then I'll throw out a couple alternatives which he would probably go for (I hope).

1. The buy-back format. I absolutely detest this, but he uses this in the Madden and Halo 3 tourneys. Instead of making it a double-elimination tournament, I would do divisional play which leads to brackets. Here's the catch. If you don't get out of your division, you can buy your way back into the tournament and participate in divisional play again. I dont' remember if I told him that the buy-back format was a bad idea, but I'll mention it.

2. Don't give out $1,000. Instead give out a high-priced first-place prize (a Wii, maybe) and marginal cash amounts for the top three, and lower the fees.

I'm asking for your feedback. I've told him good things about the Melee community and he wants to see what you guys are all about. I'm going to see him on Dec. 15 at his next tournament. At that time, I plan to present him a plan that I think would get you guys to come to a tournament that he (and I) would run.

--GCII

 

[festizzio]

Well if he wants to charge $60 then he better make it like a 3 day tourney with free food and stuff, cause otherwise I don't think anybody will go for it. Maybe just make all the entry fees go into a pot and him take a certain percentage out.

 

[The Game II]

The only reason I didn't mention percentage because we're talking about him taking 50 percent MINIMUM, the rest go to the players. umm, yeah scratch that idea

--GCII

I guess I shouldn't say 50. Maybe 25-30.

 

[mikeHAZE]

I honestly don't think people will participate at a tourney if it's more than $20, and it's not a multiple day tournament. If he or you can turn this into a large scale national tournament, then i think $20 is more than reasonable, if not I really don't think many people will be willing to enter.

 

[HugS]

I think what's going on is an odd mixture of smashers being cheap and spoiled at the same time.

We're cheap and cringe at having to pay 20 bucks at a tournament. I mean the majority of our socal tournaments still only require a 5 dollar entry fee. Chump change.

But at the same time we are spoiled because if organizers don't agree with our prices, we have like 20 other tournaments to go to on that very same weekend.

We're in high demand and low demand all at the same time. We are a weird community.

Glenn knows I won't care about paying the higher entrance fee. And i think the only way the 2nd tier players will agree is if a lot of 1st tier players show up... ala OC3.

 

[festizzio]

Hey I just wanna get the most bang for my buck, like what's the point in going to a tourney like this where it's a $20 entry fee for one day and a guy who's used to hosting Madden tourneys, just doesn't seem worth it.

 

[mikeHAZE]

Hey I just wanna get the most bang for my buck, like what's the point in going to a tourney like this where it's a $20 entry fee for one day and a guy who's used to hosting Madden tourneys, just doesn't seem worth it.

what difference does it make as to what type of tournament he's used to running, Glenn clearly stated he would be running it.

But you do have a point as to "bang for your buck," and hugo led that on. If a lot of Pro's come, then more "2nd tier" players will come.

 

[festizzio]

what difference does it make as to what type of tournament he's used to running, Glenn clearly stated he would be running it.

But you do have a point as to "bang for your buck," and hugo led that on. If a lot of Pro's come, then more "2nd tier" players will come.

Yeah that is true, forgot the part about Glenn running it. xP

 

[NeighborhoodP]

the problem is he's not realizing that if the tournament is REALLY run well, and the entry fee is decent, enough people will come to presumably make up the people who won't come if the entry fee is much higher.

anything more than $20 and i wouldn't bother, and even that is stretching it. i can't speak for other people but i'm not interested in driving 30-60 minutes and paying for that in gas, and then paying $20 for singles, who knows what for doubles, and all that just to have zero chance of winning.

if this became a national tournament a la VLS or champ combo or etc. then it'd be worth it. otherwise i've already played most of so cal and i'm not going to shell out $30-40 to do it.

i would suggest for him to lower his ambitions for the very first tournament and just lower the prize money enough to where obv mango / hugs / dsf / anyone else good enough to win money is going to come, yet there are enough TVs and it's well-organized and the aforementioned people will be attending that mostly everyone else in so cal will come. i mean a ton of people come to the UCLAs because everyone knows it's going to be well run and good people come, including special guests like nor cal.

 

[CGCGrayfox]

I'm having a large event this month and I can say the money deal is always the hardest part. No one wants to pay to much. You know why? because the majority of the smash community are young adults. We are poor. XD. In a few years I can see the $20 thing being no big deal but now it's always a problem. Your first tourney should be a bi weekly of some kind. A low profit, get the locals to come tournament. Following, you can go for a $15 dollar entry tournament. Then your group can grow and so can the smash community.

I really think we should all be going to organized for profit tournaments more often. It shows outsiders that Smash is huge and it gets more exposer. We'll see smash more often in more places.

 

[The Game II]

Thanks for your guys feedback. There are a couple other things I wanted to mention.

This TO is not looking for a one-night stand. If he goes Melee/Brawl, then he's going to do it almost every month like he does with Madden and Halo 3.

He said he's not going to invest in getting 15 TVs and Wiis just for one tournament. He really wants to get his tournament to the point where ... "oh goodness don't schedule a tournament on the same day he's running it." like we're doing with UCLA.

I told him about the community in regard to the amount of tournaments every week, the demographics and mentalities. I think what Hugs said, some of it I mentioned.

So to me, it's sounding like you guys want a test run. That's fine. I'll suggest to him a prize/cash/cash distribution with a marginal fee for the first tournament. That might please both sides.

--GCII

 

[ThomaSexy]

I understand what you mean about the "one-night stand thing" (It figures I would relate to that phrase first) but when you have a tournament that's recurring, you also get people who miss it and say, "I'll go to the next one..... I'll go to the next one...... I'll go to the next one for sure...." and NEVER go to any. Keep that in mind.

Another thing to consider is that when you have a recurring tournament, it becomes less special and fewer people are willing to attend. People get the attitude of, "Why would I want to pay to go to this again when so-in-so is just going to win it again?" The less often a tournament is held, the more special is becomes and the more likely people are going to come because they don't want to miss that one big event. Could you picture M2K, Chu Dat, or PC Chris flying to California every month to attend this? These are just things to think about so you can make adjustments to get favorable results.

There is one way, though, to have a monthly tournament with huge turn-outs every time. However, from what you've said, I don't think the TO would want to do this, but it's just a suggestion and maybe compromises would have to be made in order for bigger profits to be made. Like MLG, if they had the tournaments every month in different states, it would likely bring huge turn-outs every time. But if he doesn't want to do that, than this isn't an option.

Of course, one of the best ways to get a large turn-out is to get big names to agree to come beforehand and let everyone know. Look how many people came to TG6 because Captain Jack was coming or 0C2 because the Japanese players were coming.

I hope this helps. I know people could give you tips to make things bend in their favor, but I'm saying what I am hoping to make things more favorable for your success. Thanks for your time.

 

[LunInSpectra]

Another thing to consider is that when you have a recurring tournament, it becomes less special and fewer people are willing to attend. People get the attitude of, "Why would I want to pay to go to this again when so-in-so is just going to win it again?" The less often a tournament is held, the more special is becomes and the more likely people are going to come because they don't want to miss that one big event. Could you picture M2K, Chu Dat, or PC Chris flying to California every month to attend this? These are just things to think about so you can make adjustments to get favorable results.

That'd be friggin' awesome. And at biweeklies over here, the players who don't rank high all the time still come and participate even with the predictable results. Doesn't that itself separate a lot of the good from the bad? Weed out the bad as fast as you can, we mainly want smashers who want to get better.

But getting better at $25 a tournament is disgusting. If UCLA charges $5 AND this $25 tournament gets No outside competition, I think it'd be a failure.

 

[Zoap]

wow i was gonna say taking a suggestion from luninspectra is like kicking your self in the head, but for once he didnt fail.