Need Help With My Ness.

[DarkinfernoX]

Hi I'm a Ness main that really needs help with improving in my matches. I usually be at the smash streams on twitch and I keep on getting comments that my Ness is really slow, no follow ups in attacks, look up top players, working on fundamentals and among other things and I really want to be the best well rounded and best player I can be with him.

Everyone on twitch been getting be a member on here so that I can be the best smash player that I can be and at the current level I'm at I lose all the time online and I mean...a lot...to the point that I get so salty with every loss I get. So I'm gonna put a youtube video to better explain it.

I appreciate any and all help that can better me as a Ness main.

 

[Rocket-Bot]

The best advice I could give you is to stop throwing projectiles on shield, and go for more grabs, you were only going for PK Thunder mind game kills.

 

[Neisu]

If I can give any advice, first off I would say you definitely have enough skill to play well with ness. A few critiques I have however, are that first off, it seems like you're hesitant on your punishes. Don't be afraid to go in for punishes, in fact that's a very very vital part of this game. Second, I think you should mix up your aerials. Ness has great overall aerials with many purposes, and it's good to mix them up. Also, overall add some more grabs to your game in my opinion, because grabs are a more optimal punish than dash attack. Hope this helped...I guess?

 

[DarkinfernoX]

If I can give any advice, first off I would say you definitely have enough skill to play well with ness. A few critiques I have however, are that first off, it seems like you're hesitant on your punishes. Don't be afraid to go in for punishes, in fact that's a very very vital part of this game. Second, I think you should mix up your aerials. Ness has great overall aerials with many purposes, and it's good to mix them up. Also, overall add some more grabs to your game in my opinion, because grabs are a more optimal punish than dash attack. Hope this helped...I guess?

Thanks for your advice I also forgot to mention in my last post that I don't know any mix-ups cause I never gotten an example of it. The slowness is really known from twitch players and I really need help to fix on that; in the past when I playing brawl online I really got scolded at me for using grabs to much cause I was a lucas main and my secondaries were ness, falcon, falco, and wolf... but now I really hear that everyones telling me to use them.

I really think its nice that I have skills on my ness but I don't think that I am cause I get owned by everyone on twitch but everyone says that I really should have confidence in my playstyle but I don't see it in my eyes.

 

[Neisu]

Thanks for your advice I also forgot to mention in my last post that I don't know any mix-ups cause I never gotten an example of it. The slowness is really known from twitch players and I really need help to fix on that; in the past when I playing brawl online I really got scolded at me for using grabs to much cause I was a lucas main and my secondaries were ness, falcon, falco, and wolf... but now I really hear that everyones telling me to use them.

I really think its nice that I have skills on my ness but I don't think that I am cause I get owned by everyone on twitch but everyone says that I really should have confidence in my playstyle but I don't see it in my eyes.

well first thing I would say is don't listen to people who just hate, because that isn't gonna help anyone. Also, if you just keep practicing you'll eventually get better and better. I would recommend going on Anther's and finding some matches because there are players of all skill levels there.

 

[DeleteThisAcct]

Personally, I feel you should play more aggressively. You hold back, a lot; which in turn caused you to miss the lion's share of opportunities. You almost seem hesitant to commit to your attacks.

I have the opposite problem as you, I play aggro and have an itchy trigger finger that throws out attacks too often, and eventually gets punished for it. To me anyways, the upside to your playstyle is that you're less open to attack because you're more disciplined and reserved about when you throw out attacks. If you like being reserved, try playing reactively, look for openings, and focus on your punish game.

On a sidenote, dThrow into PKT2, huh? I never thought there was enough time to pull that off, I should experiment with that myself.

 

[DarkinfernoX]

Personally, I feel you should play more aggressively. You hold back, a lot; which in turn caused you to miss the lion's share of opportunities. You almost seem hesitant to commit to your attacks.

I have the opposite problem as you, I play aggro and have an itchy trigger finger that throws out attacks too often, and eventually gets punished for it. To me anyways, the upside to your playstyle is that you're less open to attack because you're more disciplined and reserved about when you throw out attacks. If you like being reserved, try playing reactively, look for openings, and focus on your punish game.

On a sidenote, dThrow into PKT2, huh? I never thought there was enough time to pull that off, I should experiment with that myself.

Ya every time that I ask for advice almost every time i hear that I play way to passive and it does hurt me alot and I wish i could turn it off at times and go all aggro, about the dthrow thing I always play by instincts so thats part of me being passive arnd dont have a set playbook on how to go in matches.. lol

I might post another replay so I can more tips and advice for my ness and my playstyle but I still havent gotten an example of how mix-ups work cause techically I'm still new to the fighting game genre and I know little bit of the terms.

 

[DarkinfernoX]

Is there any more tips to help put my ness?

 

[EnhaloTricks]

I've pretty much got to mirror the sentiments of everyone else: play more aggro. There were a lot of times you could have gotten free damage (or at the end, free bthrow kills). You tend to sit in shield quite a lot, which could work against some characters, but is a bad idea against yoshi cause of how good his grab is and his command grab. You also like to use PK Fire at a set distance every time and that becomes decently readable (like how the Yoshi just started running up and shielding cause he knew when you were gonna do it). Possibly using it a liiiiiitle too much.

Learn to kill with Ness' other moves. He has like 5 or 6 kill moves starting at 110% or so, so take advantage of all of those.

Other than that, just work on power shielding. One way to get in on a Yoshi is power shield the egg and rushdown to take advantage and close distance.

Less attack (in general) on shield. And far more nair. I see a lot of fairs, but nair is Ness' "Get Out of Jail Free" card. And it does a good amount of damage. So win/win!

 

[DarkinfernoX]

I've pretty much got to mirror the sentiments of everyone else: play more aggro. There were a lot of times you could have gotten free damage (or at the end, free bthrow kills). You tend to sit in shield quite a lot, which could work against some characters, but is a bad idea against yoshi cause of how good his grab is and his command grab. You also like to use PK Fire at a set distance every time and that becomes decently readable (like how the Yoshi just started running up and shielding cause he knew when you were gonna do it). Possibly using it a liiiiiitle too much.

Learn to kill with Ness' other moves. He has like 5 or 6 kill moves starting at 110% or so, so take advantage of all of those.

Other than that, just work on power shielding. One way to get in on a Yoshi is power shield the egg and rushdown to take advantage and close distance.

Less attack (in general) on shield. And far more nair. I see a lot of fairs, but nair is Ness' "Get Out of Jail Free" card. And it does a good amount of damage. So win/win!

What are the 5 or 6 kill moves with ness cause i really dont know what theyre are. i keep on listening to people that say pk fire makes ness but i keep telling them that it gets punished real quick... What is power shielding cause i keep on hearing that from time to time

So the point of this thread now for me is to be aggro, stop being so defensive, and shield but do it kinda sparringly and at the right time...but problem is that is HOW to be agrro and do power shields ?

 

[Neisu]

What are the 5 or 6 kill moves with ness cause i really dont know what theyre are. i keep on listening to people that say pk fire makes ness but i keep telling them that it gets punished real quick... What is power shielding cause i keep on hearing that from time to time

So the point of this thread now for me is to be aggro, stop being so defensive, and shield but do it kinda sparringly and at the right time...but problem is that is HOW to be agrro and do power shields ?

Okay well pk fire is very punishable but it's still a good situational tool. Power shielding is pretty simply shielding right as an attack is about to hit (usually good against projectiles). Power shielding makes it so that there is no shield pushback nor damage, which makes it good for approaching through a wall of projectiles. As for aggressiveness, really playing a defensive Ness isn't bad at all. But you have to know when to punish, and you have to do it whenever you have an opportunity. As for Ness's kill moves, Bthrow, Uair, Fsmash, PKT2, Bair, and PK Flash (don't use this much at all) all kill. Fair and nair kill as well if you're offstage. Also as for nair, it's ness's go to out of shield option, so it is a very vital move.

 

[S-Ness]

First things first, here are Ness's best tools. Most of his aerials, throws, PK Thunder and usmash. Nair acts as a good oos option and can KO later on. Fair is an excellent comboing, spacing, and edgeguarding tool. Uair can juggle and kill, and is one of the strongest uair in the game. Bair is a very fast killing move but rather situational. Dair is his worst aerial but it does have situational uses. Try to mix up your aerials and keep your opponents guessing. Now we have his grab. Dthrow allows for tons of followup, nearly all of his aerials. In case they airdodge, you can punish their landing with your smash attacks, PK Fire and sometimes PK Thunder or PKT2. Fthrow have strong bkb so it's good in sending your opponents offstage to edgeguard and it kills on the Smashville platform at 10%. Uthrow doesn't allow many followups like dthrow but it can set up uair/PK Thunder juggles. Bthrow is the strongest throw in the game, killing floaties under 80% near the ledge. PK Thunder is an excellent edgeguarding projectile. Should your opponent airdodge back to the stage, you can hit yourself to activate PKT2 and they die at 30%. Should they do nothing, followup with an aerial to rack up damage. Usmash covers a lot of distance and comes out fairly quick, so it's a good airdodge read tool off of dthrow.

Now for Ness's best stages. Smashville is his best - the platform allows Ness to recover high, aiding his Rosalina MU. And as mentioned, fthrow kills off the platform at 10%. Also since the blastlines are near, this helps bthrow to kill even earlier. Due to its relatively low ceiling, it also aids Ness's uair. Next is Halberd. Uair kills people around 80%. Delfino: Ness can 0-death using fthrow and fair combo on walkoffs. The island section also aids Ness's linear recovery should he fails to make it back to the stage. Bad stages: definitely don't go to Lylat. The platforms prevent Ness from comboing, and if he somehow falls under the main platform, you have nearly no hope to recover.

Ness's worst MU is Rosalina clearly. Her long range attacks make it difficult for Ness to deal damage to her, due to his short range, and Rosalina can just keep him out. To exacerbate this, Ness has limited options to kill Luma effectively. Also, when Ness is offstage, it usually means death for him since Rosalina can use her Gravitational Pull to absorb his PK Thunder. So I'd suggest pocketing Dark Pit for this matchup since Electroshock Arm instantly kill Luma ipunder most circumstances, and Rosa's shield isn't big enough to cover Luma. Sure you're gonna get punished but Rosa can't do anything off a grab since Luma is gone, and her KO power isn't great with Luma lost anyway. Additionally, Dark Pit has disjointed range and a good neutral and a projectile, helping him with approaching.

Ness's neutral is pretty mediocre due to his overall short range, hard time approaching, PK Fire being predictable and bad landing options.

Overall, Ness is a very good character and is balanced. Try to play somewhat defensively with him and go full offense when needed.
----
Now to your playstyle. Your reaction time is pretty slow, so work on that. Don't dash while dthrowing, just jump up and fair. You'd have to be quick enough for the combo to be true, but it isn't hard. Also you seem to don't know his approach options; thry're nair and fair, situationally PK Fire. Also, work on your PK Thunder angles. Also learn various options while at the edge: edge hopping for example; drop from the ledge and immediately jump afterwards. Ness's aerials work best as a "get-the-f***-off-of-me" under those circumstances, but don't use it too much since his aerials have moderate landing lag. Don't use his smash attacks too much since they're generally not good. I noticed that your reading ability is good, so try to have better reaction times. Also try running shield to limit your opponent's punishing options on your approach. Also having better reaction times help when you perfect shield (shielding against attacks in four frames the shield is up. To notify players, it makes a "clang" sound and the shield will glow brighter. Perfect shielding allow you to attack immediately afterwards, so it's a good technique to keep in mind. Also I see you PK Thunder a lot, so decrease that and try to use aerials more.

As a Ness main, I'm happy to help! Contact me if you want tips! :D

 

[SirShadows]

I'll make this nice and short for you out of what I saw this game... If you have any fundamental problems just add my NNID and I'll play you (I love Ness dittos and add anyone who plays serious).

Long: You play offensive but not aggressive, not saying you should be more aggressive but it seems you're mixing up your options in a specific situation. Many players say Ness had great offense but bad defense and others say the opposite but in reality he is perfectly equal in both fields, making him a MIX UP character. Basically let's say both players are in the neutral and you just lost stage control...so you play defensive to get the Neutral back and not go offstage. Now you have him backed up on a ledge or off stage, THATS when you go offensive or aggro as he is in the worst position he could possibly be so more pressure would just make it worse for him. When in the Neutral its basically a balance of both and waiting for an advantage (or making one.) Usually a PK Fire and a good throw string will give you stage control but at higher play you'll realize how easy it is to react to a PK Fire so I recommend FAST FALL ariels (like Nair or Fair or GRABS) to control the space between your enemy.

Also you have to punish quicker, stop hesitating. I've seen you foxtrot and in all honesty it's not that viable with Ness UNLESS you Cancel each trot (look up Fox trot canceling or Dance trotting.) Basically makes approaches and baiting safer and easier.

Short Sum-up:
Improve: Punish more (improve your reaction time if needed), Mix-up your play (Offensive and Defensive), and Fast Fall more when you clearly have the chance (You can do 2 Nairs on a Fast Fall so it's just generally a better tech to use.) Finally use Up Air more, it links up better strings than Triple Fair (won't spoil it unless you play me XD.)

Other.You seem to be good at recovery (if you can't recover with Ness you can't play him) but lastly I don't know about your

Reference: Watch NAKAT, FOW or Shaky (even Ribs who beat Vinnie yesterday 2/0). They all play aggressive and defensive per game, study their strings and apply them. Good luck!

 

[DanceLouisDance]

To mee it seems like you go in way too much, you say you have been losing a lot recently and it's because you dash attack kinda a lot. do you still do it? because most people will block and punish you once you do it too much. and yeah if you are really near your opponent in the air like that just press A *or Nair* or up A for an UpAir. try playing patient a few matches to get the feel of both being agro and defensive.
Also it's more about reading and adapting to your opponents, punishing attack, like say he does a smash attack be ready to punish. or say he or she air dodges a lot. wait for the air dodge then hit him with a fair or nair or anything. your main goal should be to not get hit as you find ways to get damage. because in the end a person with really good spacing and defense will always beat an aggressive only player

but you also have to learn the characters as well/ learn the matchup because some attacks can beat yours and trade to where they benefit.

Also the best kill move from ness imo is the down smash at the ledge try it as people try to recover. and once down throw fair stops working i usually back throw from then on because usually they would be offstage by then.

and just fight a computer and do some experimenting. get better and connecting your combos ect. find new things. like i sometimes stall with my down be in the air and wait for them to air dodge or do something on the ground then i fast fall back air or fair but this can be punished if they are aggressive. but it's a good mix up sometimes.

try fighting dk's or bowser computer to practice spacing, and maybe ness to practice di out of potential combos. also the computer might show you some things you didnt know you could do.

 

[Uffe]

On a sidenote, dThrow into PKT2, huh? I never thought there was enough time to pull that off, I should experiment with that myself.

Don't bother. More often than not, your opponent is going to want to DI up and away from you after you d-throw. I've been told it works, but I've tried it on plenty of different opponents and out of most of them, it only worked on one person.

D DarkinfernoX
You were doing alright during the first stock of the match, but there were times you didn't space well enough that you got punished for it. Some parts you did an aerial right into Yoshi, he blocked, and then he attacked. You need to bait your opponent. Approach, retreat, see how your opponent responds, and if they're blocking, try it again, but do an empty hop instead and go for the grab. Thing is, you've got to change that approach, otherwise it becomes obvious what you're trying to do. Don't be afraid to get behind your opponent from the air or by running past them and then following it up with an attack or grab. As far as aggressiveness goes, that entirely depends on the opponent you're facing. Say you were fighting Pikachu. He can be aggressive because he's fast, so playing aggressive back might be the right thing, though I'd opt for a more defensive style unless he's rushing me. But then if you fight Rosalina, you have to play patiently.

Your second stock is where you started to make errors. There were missed opportunities and that's when you started to play sloppy by throwing out random PKFs and PKTs, and you played a lot more defensively because you feared that one hit would take you out so soon, which it would, but even taking risks can change the ties of the match. Also, when on the ground, use more jabs and tilts and don't be afraid to go off stage and knock your opponent back into the blastzone. You don't want to try that against Yoshi because his fair can spike, his dair can gimp, and his second jump has super armor which makes him not flinch from attacks. But there are other characters you can keep away from the stage, like Mario, Link, Bowser, Falcon, Fox, Rosa, etc.