Need help with Ike's Neutral Game

[King of Hoboz]

So, I've been slowly converting my region over to P:M, which has been a blast from the Brawl scene we had. After finally running into some serious P:M players from out-of-state I've gotten driven to really improve in certain directions. Last time, I made a concerted effort to practice baiting people who are looking to get in with dash dancing, side-bs, and wavedashes. So far, I've pretty much gotten that aspect down. I've rarely lost that mind game.

But, I've had a rather big problem with some of my friends in state. Namely, they all don't look for advantage very much and are content to just 'do stuff' while waiting for me to get in. They don't dash dance, they don't do anything resembling a fake out, they just practically stay in the same spot. Its incredibly difficult since I don't have any idea how I could tempt them into wanting to attack me or punish them for just sitting back. And its not like they're in their shield and I can just use Side-B to open them up; this is Link and Peach and so on with zoning aspects. They know that just having a move ready at all times kind of messes up with that attempt.

Next, I've had issues with characters who use projectiles to approach, Lucas, Mario, and Wolf. Not major ones mind you, but I feel I could do so much better than winging it if I knew how to properly avoid and punish them trying to attack me in that way.

To summarize, how do I deal with someone unwilling to make an advance and convince them to make mistakes? And how do I prevent Lucas/Wolf/Mario from getting their approach option as much?

 

[Commander]

Characters that use projectiles to approach are actually using the projectile to cover their approach. You should practice perfect shielding or canceling their projectile and then punish them as they continue to follow the projectile. If someone is unwilling to advance then you should have the advantage. Ike out ranges the overwhelming majority of characters and their attacks, so you can use that to your advantage to start your own combo on them with your approach. You don't always have to hit with the hilt sweet spot.

 

[King of Hoboz]

Oh, I never go for the hilt sweet spot honestly. I'm just a little dissatisfied with just shielding then jumping over there with a spaced Nair and was wondering if there was more to it than that. Also, for the sake of canceling out the projectile, retreating Nair probably the best? I find it a tad slow sometimes, so I never got the guts to try it in friendlies yet.

Guess its a good thing what I'm hearing is sort of the general idea I had.

 

[metroid1117]

If you're having trouble dealing with projectiles/approaching, it'd be easiest to get advice by posting videos; if possible, you should try uploading videos for advice. I can't be any more specific without footage, but you might find referencing this match I had against Hylian to be helpful for referencing how to deal with spam.

 

[King of Hoboz]

That helped a surprising amount. I think I just play too patiently(by patient I mean I'll just sit way back and watch things go down) and that lets them start the entire thing to begin with; so I have to up the aggression. Also, didn't know rolling solved tether grabs out of shield.

As for videos, unless someone else has recordings of me, don't think I'll ever be able to do that.

 

[Nguz95]

Ike's jab clanks with a bunch of the projectiles you mentioned. Jab is a much safer option than retreating nair, as it has ridiculously low endlag and can catch people if you decide to continue to use the jab string. Also, nair eats through a surprisingly large number of projectiles. You can often attack them while they are shooting their projectile and plow right through their fireball or their Wolf laser.

This is something I have problems with regardless of who I'm using. I've learned that covering your approach with a projectile is a really simple, strategy. As a result, I don't need to rely on really complicated strategies to combat it. I used to try to wd out of shield and all that crap. While it did work, the timing was really hard, and I often got pegged because I was worrying about messing up too much. The main thing is, do everything in your power to avoid getting caught in your shield. If your opponent starts to stack up on you, then you're at a disadvantage. Try to use the projectile to your advantage. By shooting it, they are telegraphing their approach. Identify what they approach with most often, and peg them when they try to go in.

As for really stationary players, They have to make a move at some point. I'm assuming that Peach is floating above you and then falling down with an aerial when you get close. I play a Peach that does it all the time. What I've found is that, regardless of the character, I can pound her when she falls down. This Peach I play tries to fall on top of me, so if I wavedash backwards I can pummel her with my dair (Lucas and Ike too). What I'm trying to get at is no matter the strategy, the opponent always leaves himself open at some point. Don't take their attack head on with your shield, just stay away until you see an opening and pump them when they are vulnerable.