Need help teaching a friend how to "git gud" at Smash

[FirestormNeos]

Alright, I'm only moderately good at the game (ie I'd get slaughtered in a tournament), but my friend is pretty much a noob who "always loses" when we fight. We're planning on practicing over the summer so she can "git gud," but I feel like I need a sense of direction to help her. Is there a curriculum somewhere I can using as a starting off point or something?

 

[420quickscoper]

It really depends. Why is she a newbie at the game?

 

[FirestormNeos]

It really depends. Why is she a newbie at the game?

not as much time sunk into it. I can't remember what she struggles with specifically.

 

[420quickscoper]

not as much time sunk into it. I can't remember what she struggles with specifically.

She may not understand the exact physics of the game.

 

[FirestormNeos]

She may not understand the exact physics of the game.

Well neither do I, yet I can still play a match with relative ease. Maybe we could do a practice match so we can better articulate where I am on the learning curve?

 

[chipndip]

Sexist answer: Cause she's a g-

*head shot* *revive*

Real answer: If the physics is the problem, you two should pick simple characters and learn the game starting with them.

Great picks imo:

Good picks imo:

Maybe?:

I wouldn't try it...:

Bad idea for a beginner, imo:

Basically, you want to learn the game with characters that don't deviate too much from how the standard character would go about fighting in the game (Yoshi, Jiggly, Kirby, Ness, Duck&Dog, Olimar/Alph, Megaman, and Zelda come to mind as prime examples to avoid). It's also good to avoid starting off with characters that'll easily get you into bad habits, like Lil Mac (spamming smashes and Jolt Haymaker), Charizard (spamming Flare Blitz), Bowser (spamming Flying Slam), Meta Knight (spamming almost all his specials),Kirby (spamming Stone), and so on. After getting some real degrees of competence with someone simple, you can move on to other characters without falling into noob traps or getting caught up in learning the simple stuff AND their character specific stuff at the same time (learning Peach like this would be a total nightmare).

All of this is imo, though.

 

[chipndip]

Also, I'd be willing to play against you to assess where you are in terms of skill. Send me a reply and we can work out the time.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Sexist answer: Cause she's a g- *head shot* *revive*

7EDGY9ME

Real answer: If the physics is the problem, you two should pick simple characters and learn the game starting with them.

best pick:

Great picks imo:

Good picks imo:

Maybe?:

I wouldn't try it...:

Bad idea for a beginner, imo:

fixed.

But seriously, dank list m8.

Basically, you want to learn the game with characters that don't deviate too much from how the standard character would go about fighting in the game (Yoshi, Jiggly, Kirby, Ness, Duck&Dog, Olimar/Alph, Megaman, and Zelda come to mind as prime examples to avoid).

Why is Mario so high and Dr. Mario so low thou? bad recovery? I get the others, but why the Dr.?

It's also good to avoid starting off with characters that'll easily get you into bad habits, like Lil Mac (spamming smashes and Jolt Haymaker), Charizard (spamming Flare Blitz), Bowser (spamming Flying Slam), Meta Knight (spamming almost all his specials),Kirby (spamming Stone), and so on.

Why is Pika so high then? 2op.

Also, I'd be willing to play against you to assess where you are in terms of skill. Send me a reply and we can work out the time.

I'll pm yeah.

 

[jdubYOU]

One thing I never did when I first played Brawl was learn how to use my shield. Make sure she knows how to do that. She may already have that down though. Just my initial guess.

 

[FirestormNeos]

One thing I never did when I first played Brawl was learn how to use my shield. Make sure she knows how to do that. She may already have that down though. Just my initial guess.

How in the "which button" sense or How in the "performing sweet 360 wombo combos" sense?

 

[jdubYOU]

How in the "which button" sense or How in the "performing sweet 360 wombo combos" sense?

Definitely just using it in general. Basic fundamental sense. Like, if I see someone coming in to attack me, I didn't have the knowledge that I could simply block them with shield and then attack. So, basically, in the "which button and when" sense I guess.

 

[Maple42]

I'd teach her the basics of spacing; it's the most important fundamental, and it's relatively simple. Just keep the opponent at the tip of your attacks. It'll greatly reduce the damage she takes.
Also, I'd try to teach her how to tech; it'll seem ambitious as she's a beginner, but tech skill will make her live a lot longer.
Also, landing safely when getting launched, and recovery basics.
Essentially, if I were teaching her, I'd want her to learn how to survive first. Then, we can start counterattacking.

OH and directional influence.

 

[chipndip]

7EDGY9ME



fixed.

But seriously, dank list m8.



Why is Mario so high and Dr. Mario so low thou? bad recovery? I get the others, but why the Dr.?



Why is Pika so high then? 2op.



I'll pm yeah.

: He's a worse , but unlike ->, 's recovery is SO bad that you'll be punished, in my opinion, too hard for messing up. He also doesn't get much out of throw combos and tilts, which is actually important in this game. Mainly, I'd avoid learning with because I'd avoid regardless. >_>

: Everyone has one thing or the other to fall into, but Thunder is something you'll learn real quick not to use brainlessly, imo. He's also quick, has a great recovery, and has a projectile to practice kiting with. Outside of Thunder, he's a really good character to break yourself into the game with. That's why he isn't "great", but he's still "good".

@ other topics: Spacing and stuff is a bit intermediate/advanced for a "noob". Getting a feel for how the game works and flows on a steady, reliable character would be the best starting point, and then bleed that into learning about when to use certain options on certain characters. Things like:

-When to tilt, jab, or smash
-Any special traits about her or her enemy on a general level (tippers, Yoshi's tongue, projectile spam, water/wind push, shield frames, invincible frames, etc.).
-When to shield, roll, or sidestep. With that said, the importance of not always rolling one direction.
-Teching and how/why/when.

Then you get to spacing, spacing tools, and the more meta stuff. Imo, anyway.

 

[420quickscoper]

Sexist answer: Cause she's a g-

*head shot* *revive*

Real answer: If the physics is the problem, you two should pick simple characters and learn the game starting with them.

Great picks imo:

Good picks imo:

Maybe?:

I wouldn't try it...:

Bad idea for a beginner, imo:

Basically, you want to learn the game with characters that don't deviate too much from how the standard character would go about fighting in the game (Yoshi, Jiggly, Kirby, Ness, Duck&Dog, Olimar/Alph, Megaman, and Zelda come to mind as prime examples to avoid). It's also good to avoid starting off with characters that'll easily get you into bad habits, like Lil Mac (spamming smashes and Jolt Haymaker), Charizard (spamming Flare Blitz), Bowser (spamming Flying Slam), Meta Knight (spamming almost all his specials),Kirby (spamming Stone), and so on. After getting some real degrees of competence with someone simple, you can move on to other characters without falling into noob traps or getting caught up in learning the simple stuff AND their character specific stuff at the same time (learning Peach like this would be a total nightmare).

All of this is imo, though.

Even this is your own opinion, I would like to disagree on some points.

-Marth and Lucina aren't easy to learn. You have to keep people at a fixed distance. They go to ''Good picks'' for me or Maybe.
-Sheik may be a top tier character, but that doesn't mean you can be very good with Sheik. Sheik's hard to get good with.
-Shulk is probably the hardest to play in the game to get correct. I'd put ''I wouldn't try''.
-You also left out Rosalina. If you consider putting her in, I'd say ''I wouldn't try...''. Like Shulk, Rosalina has a hard learning curve.
-Meta Knight's specials are not spammable. If any one considers spamming Mach Tornado, they're going to be punished a million times. I once fought an MK with my MK. He was spamming tornado and I easily bested him. Same problem with Drill Rush. Dimensional Cape is more of a read/style/punish move. Shuttle Loop is an upwards KO move. High risk high reward move. If your opponent dodges, you're going to have a bad time.
-Kirby Spamming Stone is common among new players, however, people that know a bit more of the game will often spam projectiles. Here are some examples.
1. Samus' missiles and charge shots. There are a bunch of Samus players who just roll, missile, and charge shot.
2. All of Link's projectiles. Nearly every Link I've met on FG spams projectiles.
3. You forgot to mention Mac's dash attack. They ALWAYS use that.

I know this is imo, but I still want to disagree. However, I fully respect your opinion.

 

[420quickscoper]

Well neither do I, yet I can still play a match with relative ease. Maybe we could do a practice match so we can better articulate where I am on the learning curve?

Sure. Tuesday, sometime after noon?
You can PM me at around 4:00 PM. We can make something up.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Definitely just using it in general. Basic fundamental sense. Like, if I see someone coming in to attack me, I didn't have the knowledge that I could simply block them with shield and then attack. So, basically, in the "which button and when" sense I guess.

"which button and when" is what i meant by the latter.

 

[GhostUrsa]

I posted some examples in a different thread, but I can't find it currently.

Letting your friend pick a character to bond with is important, since they will be the one to play and not you. Yeah, we can say X is better to learn but none of that matters if the player doesn't bond with that character's style. After a while, if they are stuggling and feel like they should try a different character, then help give suggestions and see what happens. You will still be helping, but letting it feel like the other is learning instead of being dictated to.

Fundamentals are important to learn, but I find that learning by practice and example are far better than just being told since book smarts don't mean squat if the player can't recall all of it in the heat of battle. Working it into muscle memory is important. One thing you can try to do is trick your friend into learning and give praise. Example being setting it up so you make a specific mistake a couple of times during the match and see if the player picks up on it. If they figure out how to capitalize on it, good. Let them know that they just did something cool, that way they know they are picking up something more technical. If they weren't able to fully capitalize on it, after a while let them know that this 'mistake' (don't let them know you are purposely making it, or they could think you are insulting them. Contention is a terrible thing to have with training partners) can be punished with X, Y or Z. This will feel more like coaching, since you are building off of their foundation instead of straight up hammering it into their heads.

It's all about steps, since no one learns everything at once. First time vets-turned-coachs make the mistake of trying to dump everything on a character at once, which can cause a lot of frustration since it projects a sense of failure to a new player that they can't keep it all in their head.

 

[FirestormNeos]

So we did some training- here's some notes about my friend that I've collected:
* Seems to favor playing .
* Struggles with Recovery (Possibly not fluent with Directional Input?). To explain, sometimes when she tries to do the Great Spin to save herself, she either ends up using the Bow or Boomerang instead, or fails to double jump first.
* Is a Visual/Kinesthetic Learner.

More notes will be available as sessions continue.

 

[GhostUrsa]

The struggling with directional inputs is something most newer players experience, and will dissipate with time and practice. Link is pretty good for practicing this, since his projectiles are part of his game. Learning how to do angled Boomerang throws will definitely help resolve the directional issues.

Does your sparring partner pick up some tricks by watching you play? If so, you can try "saying" what you'll be doing next while recovering to have their brain double process what's going on. I'm not talking DBZ style, but more like thinking out loud. When you are recovering low, slip out a "and..... jump... Recover!" when you use your second jump and Up-B every once in a while. The brain will pick up on things faster when more senses are pickup up on the activity, so this will help process the timing both by audio cues and visual cues. (It's why teacher will have students learning how to read say the words out load, as their brain is processing both the letters and sounds then putting them together in the memory!) As they pick it up, you can slowly stop 'slipping' the words and they'll pick up their character's specific cues instead.

 

[FirestormNeos]

The struggling with directional inputs is something most newer players experience, and will dissipate with time and practice. Link is pretty good for practicing this, since his projectiles are part of his game. Learning how to do angled Boomerang throws will definitely help resolve the directional issues.

Does your sparring partner pick up some tricks by watching you play? If so, you can try "saying" what you'll be doing next while recovering to have their brain double process what's going on. I'm not talking DBZ style, but more like thinking out loud. When you are recovering low, slip out a "and..... jump... Recover!" when you use your second jump and Up-B every once in a while. The brain will pick up on things faster when more senses are pickup up on the activity, so this will help process the timing both by audio cues and visual cues. (It's why teacher will have students learning how to read say the words out load, as their brain is processing both the letters and sounds then putting them together in the memory!) As they pick it up, you can slowly stop 'slipping' the words and they'll pick up their character's specific cues instead.

What if the person isn't an auditory learner? wouldn't that just be wasting time and energy?

nvm, forget I said anything.

 

[elliotnz]

ALOT of single player on easy to get used to the moves. Versing ALOT of low level cpu's. get used to rolling/smashing/grabbing/aeriel attacks. Mixing it up is important. Maybe 'for fun' when she gets better. She should know how to implement most of the moves of the character she chooses

 

[Fire Fly]

Practice is key to success. A little dedication is needed from your friend however.