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Need help shield grabbing
- Thread starter Wardub
- Start date
Livevil200
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 31
against projectile users you can grab turnips/ftilt them/ break them. But against samus's who are competent your better off wave dashing and shileding, crouching and wave dashing, spot dodging. Basically approach and dodge. Against shield grabbers learn the spacing of your fair so that you dont get shield grabbed. Also you can dash dance or go for a Jump Cancelled grab (which is where you hit X before you grab so its just like doing a stand up grab). Those are your main options.
Basically, spacing and grabbing yourself.
Basically, spacing and grabbing yourself.
thanks i know how to jc grabs, but is that faster than some one shield grabbing? Also i hear spacing a lot, what is the best spacing, how do i do this, im kind of confused. so just like fair but when i land i wont beable to get grabbed? also im kinda bad at l-canceling (and i barely ever fast fall) if i did that better would that help, should i work on that?
edit: wow im dumb theres already another thread about this, o well i could use more help on spammers.
edit: wow im dumb theres already another thread about this, o well i could use more help on spammers.
Livevil200
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 31
spacing is exactly waht you said. Learning how to space your aerials so you wont get grabbed. Also what do you mean "is JC grabbing faster than shield grabbing". The point is people shield grab AFTER they ahve been attacked as the attack that the opponent does gives them lag. If you grab them when they try to shield grab you, then your grabbing them out of the shield. i.e. you never attack to give them hte chance to punish your lag.
what i mean is my opponent sometimes is just sitting there in a light shield, if i run at him will my grab come out before his? sometimes he will expect a fair and i will get him but if he suspects i will grab,will i grab him before he grabs me?
edit: also is there any particular videos of good spacing i can watch and study?
edit: also is there any particular videos of good spacing i can watch and study?
indie_dave
Smash Ace
omg every ness has trouble with spammers, but a competent nesser did say he thinks ness deals with spam well... i'll have to look that up
i personally have the hardest time against link and samus, and it's become teh limit for me even after i stopped maining ness...
out:
does waveshielding work well? really if they're camping out, they want you to come to them, so you'd really have to psyche um out when you get close
there is another topic, but great question IDEAS AND BATTLE TESTED EXPERIENCE PLZ
i personally have the hardest time against link and samus, and it's become teh limit for me even after i stopped maining ness...
out:does waveshielding work well? really if they're camping out, they want you to come to them, so you'd really have to psyche um out when you get close
there is another topic, but great question IDEAS AND BATTLE TESTED EXPERIENCE PLZ
Massive
Smash Champion
Only Spam Ness has signifigant trouble with is Falco SH-laser spam. In nearly any other instance you can either avoid the attack entirely, catch it, bat it, or f-tilt it into oblivion (excluding fully charged energy shots).
To the OP: running in for a grab is rarely a good idea, a time-tested tactic is to approach with a f-air, and if one of the hits manages to connect, grab them while they're reeling back. Spacing on fairs is of paramount importance because if you get too close, they can simply sheild grab you out of it.
To the OP: running in for a grab is rarely a good idea, a time-tested tactic is to approach with a f-air, and if one of the hits manages to connect, grab them while they're reeling back. Spacing on fairs is of paramount importance because if you get too close, they can simply sheild grab you out of it.
what about samus's missiles? i know you can backwards nair them but is that a good idea if they're close? also about spacing the fairs, it sounds good, but is there a way i can practice this? i dont have many people to practice on usually, and are there any videos with good spacing? if so links? thanks all
The_NZA
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,979
Well, first off you dont want to just run in and grab them. its all about mind games. lets say you run in and bat them (still far away enough so they cant grab you, i.e. minding your spacing), and then run away and run back and grab them. The idea is you dont want them to guess your going to grab. You want them to think your going to do an attack that they have to shield. Once youve got tehm thinking that, they aren't oging to grab out of the shield (or esle they'd take damage). You get what im saying? So practice Crouch Cancelling the bat (i.e. running and then tapping down before pressing forward on the cstick), as this will alllow you to bat out of a dash. Also practice running and then wave dashing back, and hten forward again.
Your question is basically "how can i grab them without being predictable so they grab me first", and the answer is to either mix up long range attacks that force them to shield so they think your going to do one of those attacks when your actually going for the grab, OR its to confuse them into the timing of when your going to grab. So, you might run up to them, and right before your close enough to them so that you can grab or they can grab, you wave dash back (at which point they will shield grab since they would have thought you were going for the grab) and then dash forward. Now your next to them and they are probably facing the lag of their grab. You can
a. grab them
b. attack them
i suggest a.
as for missile spammeage, my greatest suggestion is simply dodging them. The key to dodging samus's missiles is to not be intimidated by them. Just dodge them. Shield and wave dash forward, wave dash forward while spot dodging, short hop and air dodge past them, full jump and air dodge when you need to (although the disadvantage in this is you can be an easier target in the air when you full jump).
btw, this is Livevil200. This will be my new name.
Your question is basically "how can i grab them without being predictable so they grab me first", and the answer is to either mix up long range attacks that force them to shield so they think your going to do one of those attacks when your actually going for the grab, OR its to confuse them into the timing of when your going to grab. So, you might run up to them, and right before your close enough to them so that you can grab or they can grab, you wave dash back (at which point they will shield grab since they would have thought you were going for the grab) and then dash forward. Now your next to them and they are probably facing the lag of their grab. You can
a. grab them
b. attack them
i suggest a.
as for missile spammeage, my greatest suggestion is simply dodging them. The key to dodging samus's missiles is to not be intimidated by them. Just dodge them. Shield and wave dash forward, wave dash forward while spot dodging, short hop and air dodge past them, full jump and air dodge when you need to (although the disadvantage in this is you can be an easier target in the air when you full jump).
btw, this is Livevil200. This will be my new name.
The_NZA
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,979
Oh, to practice your "spacing", either get a friend to shield and grab you as you fair, and learn how far you need to be in order to pull it off without getting grabbed. I also suggest you learn to L cancel your fair cuase then you can go for a grab right afterwards. If you want to pick up some skills learning to lcancel take up falco for a day or two, and just practice SHffl'd dair to shine, to wave dash to SHFFL'd dair to shine. Do this in training against a fox and rinse and repeat. If the combo bar reads a 2 hit combo (with the dair and shine) then you lcancelled right.
If you dont have a firend ot practice spacing with, then i suggest just going in training mode and learning how far you can be from your opponent while still being able to land the fair.
If you dont have a firend ot practice spacing with, then i suggest just going in training mode and learning how far you can be from your opponent while still being able to land the fair.
thesage
Smash Hero
Or you could just use AR... I win.
For Peach when she's spamming turnips just shield them. She can't throw turnips fast enough so you can just shield one take down your shield, shield the next one. You have to approach slowly. When you grab a turnip or manage to reflect one with your bat, that's your opening. Run jump throw turnip (make sure it hit her). Now you have to deal with her on the offensive (meaning you're dead). As I've said before turnip spamming peach < defensive Ness, offensive Peach >>>>>>> any kind of Ness.
Use the up smash yo yo against samus missles. It's a disjointed hitbox so you're less like to be it (plus it cancels out the yo yo so you don't suffer so much lag). If you see she has a fully charged charge shot, and you feel you can predict her well (and you want to be crazy) run up to her and use psi magnet. She might fire the charge shot at you and heal. This works on rare occasions... it's still hilarious to pull off though. Is there somebody named mofo in here or does the NZA have a lot of tourney experience?
For Peach when she's spamming turnips just shield them. She can't throw turnips fast enough so you can just shield one take down your shield, shield the next one. You have to approach slowly. When you grab a turnip or manage to reflect one with your bat, that's your opening. Run jump throw turnip (make sure it hit her). Now you have to deal with her on the offensive (meaning you're dead). As I've said before turnip spamming peach < defensive Ness, offensive Peach >>>>>>> any kind of Ness.
Use the up smash yo yo against samus missles. It's a disjointed hitbox so you're less like to be it (plus it cancels out the yo yo so you don't suffer so much lag). If you see she has a fully charged charge shot, and you feel you can predict her well (and you want to be crazy) run up to her and use psi magnet. She might fire the charge shot at you and heal. This works on rare occasions... it's still hilarious to pull off though. Is there somebody named mofo in here or does the NZA have a lot of tourney experience?
The_NZA
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,979
im sorry annoying and sage, but i'd have to say you guys are wrong in your approach to samus. Samus's dont just sit there and missile. They jump and triple missile, sending missiles at all kinds of heights. Heights low enough to hit you if your crouched and high enoughto hit ness in the head. PK fire has a verrrry straight trajectory, and its a small hitbox while its coming out. Hitting a missile thats only slightly above it or below it is impossible making it hard to hit the missiles. Additionally the lag you face from the move can cause a lot of problems. PKFire most likely wont work.
Yoyo MIGHT but again, when in the same situation your going to face trouble. A Yoyo is a close to the ground attack when its charging. A missile thats sent slightly higher will hurt you.
Samus has rediculous control of the heights at which she can hit you with missiles. While i haven't tried the yoyo, i have a good feeling it wont work. I think teh best solution is just to get closer through dodging them.
Btw Sage, i'm really flattered for your compliment but no, im not Mofo...nor have i actually been on the tourny scene at all, but ive had really great competition in the past few months which has helped my already decent ness to rise far above what i used to be. I mostly play against top tiers which helps...4/5 of my matches are spent against marths, Falcos, Fox's, C Falcon's, and competent Samus's. My friends are really good, and one of them is good friends with Korean DJ so he gets a lot of practice. But yeah, im just a decent ness whose enjoying the smash community experience, helping where i can. I'll put up some vids at one point when i get my friends together again.
Yoyo MIGHT but again, when in the same situation your going to face trouble. A Yoyo is a close to the ground attack when its charging. A missile thats sent slightly higher will hurt you.
Samus has rediculous control of the heights at which she can hit you with missiles. While i haven't tried the yoyo, i have a good feeling it wont work. I think teh best solution is just to get closer through dodging them.
Btw Sage, i'm really flattered for your compliment but no, im not Mofo...nor have i actually been on the tourny scene at all, but ive had really great competition in the past few months which has helped my already decent ness to rise far above what i used to be. I mostly play against top tiers which helps...4/5 of my matches are spent against marths, Falcos, Fox's, C Falcon's, and competent Samus's. My friends are really good, and one of them is good friends with Korean DJ so he gets a lot of practice. But yeah, im just a decent ness whose enjoying the smash community experience, helping where i can. I'll put up some vids at one point when i get my friends together again.