Need help from frame testers: jab 1->jab 1?

[Tumultus]

Inspired by Project M Samus, I've been wondering something. In that game, she can link jab 1s fairly quickly for some shield pressure. I've learned the timing to Jab 1 constantly without going into Jab 2, but it's not the quickest thing in the world. I was wondering if there were ways this could be sped up.

Crouch canceling the jab animation comes to mind. Similar to Link's now patched infinite, how many frames are shaved off from each jab if this is performed perfectly? If anyone was able to check it out, it'd be really cool.

Our new ftilt's utility at really close range has been nerfed, so now we ONLY have our jab. Jab to grab, and jab to CS are decent strings so I'm really interested to know just how much they benefit from crouch canceling, frame-wise.

How many frames happen between frame 3 (when jab 1 connects) and the next time jab 1 connects? I'm trying to figure out how viable it is to hit a shield with our jab, then jab again as quickly as possible to punish a shield drop, what kind of attacks would we beat out? Anything?

 

[Afro Smash]

Paging Dr. @ Depth_

 

[Tumultus]

LOL Depth and I are friends IRL, I suppose I could just text him and ask...

 

[Depth_]

We can act after CCing a Jab 1 on frame 18. Jab 1 also has one frame of hitstun. So, we hit them on frame 3. They're locked in on frame 4. Shield drop is 7 frames. By this time we're in frame 11, cool down. We have 7 more frames to go. Depending on the character and how we space Jab 1, we can't be punished. Player reaction time must also be taken into considered. I've done some testing on this myself with Afro Smash. My reaction to dropping a shield after being hit and locked into shield by Jab 1 was quite slow at first. It was pretty hard to get frame perfect results.

That aside, here's something to think about. Characters with fast normals usually have really short ranged normals. Therefore, if we get optimal distance for a poke, we can avoid being punished by OOS normals. There's also aerial attacks oos, but one must jump out of shield. The average jump squat animation is 5 frames, I think. Add that to one of the fastest aerials in the game, Diddy's U-air, and we see that that's an 8 frame process. We've already transitioned out of cool down by then.

So, the safety of jab 1 poking is entirely character and player dependent. I find it especially useful for shorter characters because of their poor range. I've actually been compiling a list detailing the safety of our perfectly spaced normals against the cast. This is just a WIP though.

 

[Tumultus]

Leave it to Depth to clutch it out with some awesome frame data. Thank you very much!!

7 frames to work with means there's plenty of room to be punished by a jab from our opponent after they shield drop. Hm... It may not be nearly as useful as I had hoped, but proper spacing can really save us here!!!

My next question had to do with the range of jab 1, how many attacks can we out range with it? It seems like we are on the same page because that spreadsheet is trying to find out exactly that. Awesome

Thanks for your work Depth, this is great stuff.