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Need help against Earthbound's finest!

Heavy Vulcan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
16
I don't post here at all, but I read it all the time and haven't found anything against the falcon and ness match-up. I searched and didn't find anything either :(

Soooooo, my brother is really good with Ness and I'm decent with falcon. But, I would love to do falcown justice by beating down this recess ****** but there are a few things that really annoy me and have a hard time getting around, like his fair for instance. Since falcon can be juggled easily, Ness's uair ***** me too. I want to knock this kid back into his high-chair and falcon punch a pacifier back into his mouth but his fair gets in the way everytime! HELP!!!! Any tips against Ness or am I just a 1337 noobz0rz??!?!1/1
 

Rapid_Assassin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4,163
Location
RI
LOL at this topic. I play Ness, not Falcon, but here's some general things.. Abuse his slow recovery whenever possible. If he has to up-b and you can reach him without killing yourself, knee him and he'd probably die from it (unless your opponent is godly at timing his thunder or lucky every single time). Use your better run speed against him.

Sorry if this isn't much help. Like I said, not a Falcon player...
 

starvingartist

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
74
Location
Boston MA
I main Ness and I third Falcon. I agree with abusing Ness's low recovery time. It would be helpful if you had video of one of the matches. Then we could give more specific advice. Because Ness can be played a lot of different ways. But from the sounds of it your brother likes to spam fair. I would say try to fake him into using his fair, maybe by crouch canceling, and then make him pay for it while he takes time to recover. If he uses one move excessively just really try to predict when he will do that and then combo his mistakes.

Also..shield grab!

Hope this is helpful.
 

ThatGuy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
3,089
Location
Laval-Ouest, Quebec, Canada
I love your post, haha.

I would suggest keeping him over you. When that happens, Uair him to kingdom come. If he's horizontal with you in the air, try jumping over the Fair and stomping. Downthrow -> Knee = win. Edgeguard Ness with Uairs for easy wins. That's about it.
 

Evil Eye

Selling the Lie
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 21, 2001
Messages
14,439
Location
Madison Avenue
Oh man. It's all about abusing the kid's B-up. I'm excited because I get to make a relevant post for once.

If you can knock him off the edge, he's yours, baby. His slow B-up gives you great stomping opportunites, or if you can't handle the manly speed, then you can just knee him through three foster homes and into the Universal Studios backlot tank.

Move spammers are great fun to fight with Falcon because you can eventually get the hang of it and embarass them with dodges, sparse rolls, and the like. One move your brother probably uses that is destruction is a shorthopped fair. **** those sparkles! If your fingers are nimble, dodges and up smash him. Then make him regret it.

However, it's all about individual style. Sounds like your brother is a total move spammer, so find a few ways to abuse it and whoop some tweener ***.

Oh, and one last thing.

A one-use move -- because after once, everyone expects it -- that I love... Shieldgrab, down throw, Raptor Boost. Insert air comboing and/or the Knee of Orion.
 

technomancer

Smash Champion
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
2,053
Ness is very good against Falcon, so you have think when fighing him. Here's some notes:

First, Ness doesn't have a ground game against you. Whenever Ness is landing from anything, you should be able to pressure him with a SHFFL. Second, your Nair and Uair, in general, hit too high to be effective. Third, his DjC makes his aerials almost as fast as Fox's, but not nearly as safe. Fourth, Ness's big strength against you is the huge priority and duration on his F-air, and his combos from it. Ness is also going to have alot of trouble breaking your shield, but can otherwise pressure it very well. Also, Ness sucks when he's above you unless he has a stomp qued up already, just Uair if he tries to do anything from above.

So anyway, you don't have alot of options in this match. Your best moves, in order, are grab, knee, low% raptor boost, stomp, nair and bair. You will be spamming knee appropriately, and going for shieldgrabs off of every DjC that fits the bill, as well as spotting grabs as Ness lands from aerials occasionally. Raptor boost is top notch for punishing missed SHFFLs, follow with a Uair for teh combos and best results. You can also fly around with Nairs; you want to avoid anything but dash-jumped nairs because sparkles eat them up. So that's your basic strategy: Pressure with Knee, get grabs (u/d-throw uair/knee), do some flying stomps and nairs, and punish whiffed SHFFLs with raptor boosts, grabs, and knees.

Ness best bet against you is to space your knees so he goes just over them and comes down with the DjC aerial to punish, or just shieldgrab/shieldhop fair alot. Ness can CT Falcon with U-air mixed in until about 50 or 60%, and after that Uthrow->Fair/Bair until very high percents, and after that just Bthrow you well off the stage. So if the Ness is being all sheild/fair-campy, use a mix of grabs and stomps, and that'll shut him down.

Aggro-Ness is the next stage of the mixup. Ness will attempt to DjC Fair->grab at most percents, because the early hits of the sparkles have fairly fixed knockback and are easy to L-cancel and grab off of. As discussed above, shield-grab him or use Raptor boost to punish.

Pressure-Ness is the hardest to deal with, because it's a very safe style of play for Ness. It basically involves an aggressive Ness that uses his Fair and Bair to harass you, but doesn't land in range of a shieldgrab, and doesn't press his luck, and exploits your knee/stomp counters and your other mistakes with grabs and shield-hopped nairs, allowing him to build damage and apply mindgames. The Fair is a mindgameable attack, because you can SHFFL it, DjC it, dash jump it and pull back, do a double fair, or go through a shield and land behind CF. But anyway, it doesn't matter, because sheild-hopped stomps and Nairs can bring the match back into your control and force him to go aggressive or defensive; make sure to stay mobile and use platforms to your advantage so he can't stay on top of you and space you.


For recovery, sweetspot or go well over, and be prepared to tech a bat or Meteor Cancel a Dair.
 

Heavy Vulcan

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Messages
16
Thanks for all the advice guys. Hopefully soon he'll have to bring a few more diapers to the matches ;)

About vids, we don't have the right equipment to record anything but as soon as we do I'll have some!
 

Evil Eye

Selling the Lie
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 21, 2001
Messages
14,439
Location
Madison Avenue
That's actually not a bad technique, in all seriousness. Everytime I hit my friend with a hard hit of some sort, I taunt and taunt and eventually he goes ape **** (no pun intended, although he does play DK) and plays worse.

I'm not sure if that applies to Ness or your brother, but Ness requires technique, and flustering him is a sure way to offset it ;)
 

FlanWielder

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
16
Falcon Vs. Ness help

K so i've been playin my friends ness, i beat him like 90% of the time, but frustrating playing him as he always spot dodges, and does it well too. I also find it rather uncomfortable to combo him, he just moves too awkwardly. Heres a vid of me against a Marth for help purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvaVEdDrhNI

Also, im not as aggresive anymore, and i JC all my grabs now :)

anyway, thanks for the help.
 

ilijazi94

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
52
Location
Prospect Park, New Jersey
Judging from the way you used to play, I'm going to have to say this: mix your Falcon. By that, I mean be aggresive and be sneaky. Throw in some mindgames, empty short-hops, etc. For example, run towards him. He'll probably think you're going to attack. You see this coming, and wavedash back. The lag should still be ocurring. You nair him to start a combo. Then knee him. Taunt a lot. That should piss him off. Watch for his fair, it's really annoying. I mean, that's what Falcon's all about, isn't he? Comboing people to hell and back because they made one silly little mistake. And, as always, never forget about the FALCON..PUNCH! Hope I helped :) !
 

technomancer

Smash Champion
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
2,053
Also, taunt a lot, so Ness can see Falcon's rock-hard nipples loud and clear!
That's a little bit pedo.

Anyway, I changed my mind on Nair; you can spam it pretty effectively, just fastfall ASAP and don't get grabbed, and don't just throw it out for no reason.
 
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