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Need critique

1Twinmuduck

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
17
Location
Walla walla
Hi! Nice choice in color, I'm just going to run you somethings that can really help! Or not.

1. Being aggressive at the ledge is really dangerous as doc, there really isn't a good situation where you should be doing a dair or fair from ledge. Dair has too much lag and fair has too much start up. If you want to be aggressive from ledge work on your invincible ledge dash into up tilt or down smash. Those will cover you the most aeria around you and are pretty safe if you space them well on shield. In general you should work on your invincible large dash, it's docs best option off ledge. Also put some time into figuring out how low Doc can go below the ledge and still snap on to the ledge with those magnet hands. Another thing If you want to have some fun learn the Super Stall!

2. You got to move man. Doc can be a slippery dude so work on your wavedashes, they need to perfect all the time if you want to move best. Don't forget to dash dance! The better you move the more intimidating you'll look and the more options you'll have. Doc doesn't have a lot of options OOS. Now I don't know if this was you being nervous but it's something you should be aware of, you really shouldn't rely on shield grabbing your opponent. It just screams that you don't respect their offense when you spam it like you did. You need to recognize "who" you can shield grab. Like that fox you played, your attempted shield grabs did more harm than good because he had solid shield pressure and you where ansy for it. There's nothing wrong with rolling or wavedashing in situations like that. Movement is better than shielding.

3. Approaching in neutral as doc. Let's face it man Doc can't run around and SH nair or dair like Fox or Falco. When approaching you have to mix it up every time, most of Docs moves can auto cancel out of short hop. One thing I like to do is to SH rising bair then waveland towards or away from my opponent or full jump rising dair over your opponent then any other aerial(other than dair again). Dair should only be used in situations where it will auto cancel. Once you've conditioned your opponent with options like that, then you can go for SH nairs cause it's a mixup! But when approaching with SH nair always go for the cross up cause weak nair can easily be shield grabed. Doc can be pretty creative once you put the time into it.

4. Work on a secondary for marth. That matchups not fun at all as Doc. You can lose to people who are way below your skill just because they spam grab and can time their f smash on your recovery. Or really do some research and learn what's best to do vs Marth.

5. Punish game. Stick to the guaranteed stuff until you know how to free style. You can't pick up a guitar and jam with the band until you know how to play the chords. So for now chain grab the spacies, wall out the sheiks and Marths with bairs and hit the lab hard. One day you can swag out but practice and knowledge will be your best teachers in the long run.
Hope this helped some, cheers!
 

JipC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
367
Location
SoCal
Just from the Ganon vid you dont seem super comfortable moving around in Melee, there were a handful of pretty bad rolls, I dont think I saw any wavedash out of shield, and you could really benefit from doing his ledgedash onto stage which isnt that hard
 

Chaos0205

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
30
Location
Tampa, FL
Hi! Nice choice in color, I'm just going to run you somethings that can really help! Or not.

1. Being aggressive at the ledge is really dangerous as doc, there really isn't a good situation where you should be doing a dair or fair from ledge. Dair has too much lag and fair has too much start up. If you want to be aggressive from ledge work on your invincible ledge dash into up tilt or down smash. Those will cover you the most aeria around you and are pretty safe if you space them well on shield. In general you should work on your invincible large dash, it's docs best option off ledge. Also put some time into figuring out how low Doc can go below the ledge and still snap on to the ledge with those magnet hands. Another thing If you want to have some fun learn the Super Stall!

2. You got to move man. Doc can be a slippery dude so work on your wavedashes, they need to perfect all the time if you want to move best. Don't forget to dash dance! The better you move the more intimidating you'll look and the more options you'll have. Doc doesn't have a lot of options OOS. Now I don't know if this was you being nervous but it's something you should be aware of, you really shouldn't rely on shield grabbing your opponent. It just screams that you don't respect their offense when you spam it like you did. You need to recognize "who" you can shield grab. Like that fox you played, your attempted shield grabs did more harm than good because he had solid shield pressure and you where ansy for it. There's nothing wrong with rolling or wavedashing in situations like that. Movement is better than shielding.

3. Approaching in neutral as doc. Let's face it man Doc can't run around and SH nair or dair like Fox or Falco. When approaching you have to mix it up every time, most of Docs moves can auto cancel out of short hop. One thing I like to do is to SH rising bair then waveland towards or away from my opponent or full jump rising dair over your opponent then any other aerial(other than dair again). Dair should only be used in situations where it will auto cancel. Once you've conditioned your opponent with options like that, then you can go for SH nairs cause it's a mixup! But when approaching with SH nair always go for the cross up cause weak nair can easily be shield grabed. Doc can be pretty creative once you put the time into it.

4. Work on a secondary for marth. That matchups not fun at all as Doc. You can lose to people who are way below your skill just because they spam grab and can time their f smash on your recovery. Or really do some research and learn what's best to do vs Marth.

5. Punish game. Stick to the guaranteed stuff until you know how to free style. You can't pick up a guitar and jam with the band until you know how to play the chords. So for now chain grab the spacies, wall out the sheiks and Marths with bairs and hit the lab hard. One day you can swag out but practice and knowledge will be your best teachers in the long run.
Hope this helped some, cheers!
This is definitely gonna help thanks!
 

Chaos0205

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
30
Location
Tampa, FL
Just from the Ganon vid you dont seem super comfortable moving around in Melee, there were a handful of pretty bad rolls, I dont think I saw any wavedash out of shield, and you could really benefit from doing his ledgedash onto stage which isnt that hard
Yeah I don't practice movement as much as should. Thanks for the feedback!
 

T^2

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
69
Yeah I don't practice movement as much as should. Thanks for the feedback!
Until wave landing and wave dashing are second nature(dash dancing isn't as necessary as doc) you're gonna have a rough time against people who have that stuff down. It's hard to play basketball if you're bad at dribbling. Other than that just stick to the stuff that works and don't shield grab as much. Thats a free punish for anyone who understands the game. Feel free to message me if you have any questions,ill respond as soon as I can. Youll be great after that movements clicking for you
 
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T^2

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
69
Until wave landing and wave dashing are second nature(dash dancing isn't as necessary as doc) you're gonna have a rough time against people who have that stuff down. It's hard to play basketball if you're bad at dribbling. Other than that just stick to the stuff that works and don't shield grab as much. Thats a free punish for anyone who understands the game. Feel free to message me if you have any questions,ill respond as soon as I can. Youll be great after that movements clicking for you

Edit: Just watched the fox set, you moved a lot better in that. Now try arials out of shield instead of shield grab all the time and you'll be set! Once again im always willing to answer questions if you have any.
 
Last edited:

JipC

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
367
Location
SoCal
Yeah I don't practice movement as much as should. Thanks for the feedback!
Yeah, should definitely get on that. Looking at your gameplay while you're offstage/on the edge I think you'll see a big improvement once you practice Doc's ledgedash onto stage, luckily its not too hard, but its definitely something you need to keep practicing
 

Chaos0205

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Messages
30
Location
Tampa, FL

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
https://www.twitch.tv/calpolyesports/v/95447164
vs Marth (went Falco game one because I hate the Marth matchup as Doc)
Stop full jumping in neutral. The last thing you want is to put yourself above Marth. You also need to be less willing to give up stage control just to throw a few pills. Marth is so much stronger when he has center stage than when he is cornered.

Actually, your neutral doesn't make much sense. I didn't see a single dash dance grab. And I can't remember any jabs. It felt like you were just throwing pills, shielding, and throwing out full jump/double jump dairs and occasionally SH nairs.

Stay more grounded. Use SH bairs to combat Marth's range. You can shield his fairs with your back to him to make it easier to punish his attacks with bair out of shield. You can also use bair to punish u-tilts on your shield. Focus on dash dancing to make Marth whiff and wavedash out of shield to reposition if necessary. Don't forget to whiff punish Marth's aerials. I noticed you kept letting Marth throw out bad aerials and walk away scot free.

Overall, I would say you need to work on your understanding of Doc's neutral, how to visualize and prepare for the opponent's hitboxes, and executing your own movement to avoid and retaliate.
 
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