Need advice...

[Darth_Nova32]

So I super rushed learning the technical aspects of this game and never really learned fundamentals. I did pretty bad at this 8 person bracket today even though I thought I should have had way more experience than the people who beat me. It just got way frustrating and I don't even enjoy winning anymore. 90% sure my problem is cause I tried to learn too much too soon. And thanks to band I don't really have much time to play against real people so that doesn't help haha. How do I recover from this? Never thought I would consider playing Brawl, but maybe to make me a smarter player and not rely on technique I should switch for a little while. But y'all are such an awesome community, I would love to hear your advice.

 

[djmath]

learn the matchups

play more people

tech skill is meaningless without matchup knowledge.

Do you have footage?

 

[FlashG]

I think the first step is to not get too frustrated. Even the best players that have played the game have lost, and there is no shame in it. What's important is to understand why you lost and learn from it so you'll be prepared next time. Also, I don't think playing Brawl is going to help you much if your plan is to play melee competitively. If you want to play Brawl competitively, play Brawl. If you want to play Melee competitively, play Melee.

Edit: Also everything djmath said

 

[Darth_Nova32]

haha okay. I'm not just mostly frustrated cause I lose. I learned how to lose by being a Texas Longhorns fan xD I'm mostly just frustrated at my lack of progression and the fact that most of my friends don't have much of a will to improve- they basically just want to be good enough to beat eachother. But now I found someone to actually train with that has similar goals, so that'll help. Thanks for talking me out of playing Brawl, I was just thinking it would clean up my game overall. I have studied matchups pretty well I think, but it doesn't really apply much against casual players who don't know tech very well (the majority of my friends). And sorry, I am not the most technologically advanced person so no footage but in the future if there's an oppertunity I would love to post something and have y'all critique it, this is a great community

 

[Rlagkrud]

Don't play white marth

 

[PsyRex]

Why do people diss on the white Marth?

 

[FlashG]

If you keep practicing and your friends don't, you will become exponentially better than them in time. Just don't worry about it and keep working and eventually your friends will introduce you as "that one guy that's really good at smash" :D

 

[Sempai]

Old school White marth used to be bad luck, but new school white marth isnt, keep rocking the white.

 

[Darth_Nova32]

Haha white Marth's pretty much the best ever. Thank's so much y'all

 

[Toe]

I feel like a lot of the time mastering the fundamentals ends up being a lot harder than getting down the technical aspects of them game. Learning fundamentals really just comes with practice, and if you cannot practice the next best thing is probably watching high level marths on youtube and seeing a lot of what they have in common. Watch them play matchups, how they space, dash dance, and basically everything they do. If you have the 20xx hack pack that can help at least more than the regular game so you can practice tech chases and stuff too, hope this helps!

 

[Darth_Nova32]

Haha yeah, I do watch other Marths play but I never really thought about looking for what they have in common... thanks!

 

[Darth_Nova32]

And.. No Johns but I do have a controller situation that I need to fix. Some people claim it doesn't make a difference, but one of my friends who more likely knows what he's talking about says it would literally give him cancer to play on my controller. The joystick is pretty loose. I can't really tell tooooo much how much of an impact it has on gameplay cause I play on it pretty much all the time and when I do happen to borrow a normal controller it is definately different but there's not enough time to actually tell what magnitude of an effect it has. How much do y'all think having a normal, tight joystick would make life easier?

 

[Coyle]

And.. No Johns but I do have a controller situation that I need to fix. Some people claim it doesn't make a difference, but one of my friends who more likely knows what he's talking about says it would literally give him cancer to play on my controller. The joystick is pretty loose. I can't really tell tooooo much how much of an impact it has on gameplay cause I play on it pretty much all the time and when I do happen to borrow a normal controller it is definately different but there's not enough time to actually tell what magnitude of an effect it has. How much do y'all think having a normal, tight joystick would make life easier?

I'm the same way. If either of the sticks are floppy I'd rather not use the controller. Having tight sticks allows them to revert to neutral position faster, which can help with some tech. Pivots and wavedash back to ledgegrab are two examples. Loose sticks won't prevent you from playing well, however I think that they'd prevent you from being as precise as you could be.

 

[BTmoney]

So I super rushed learning the technical aspects of this game and never really learned fundamentals. I did pretty bad at this 8 person bracket today even though I thought I should have had way more experience than the people who beat me. It just got way frustrating and I don't even enjoy winning anymore. 90% sure my problem is cause I tried to learn too much too soon. And thanks to band I don't really have much time to play against real people so that doesn't help haha. How do I recover from this? Never thought I would consider playing Brawl, but maybe to make me a smarter player and not rely on technique I should switch for a little while. But y'all are such an awesome community, I would love to hear your advice.

holy **** lol. this was my experience playing the game. I got absurdly technical for 2 years but really did not improve vs. the "top" players in my region (hanky panky, prince abu, drephen etc.). Now I do a lot better than just a few months ago.

Only this year, my 3rd, did I figure out you are fighting another HUMAN that is praying on your mistakes and watching you too. One thing that really helped me was to minimize my inputs. Don't do anything you don't have to do. If you're losing to someone in ways that feel weird you're probably losing to them in neutral (even though you feel like you have more tech skill and can punish better and pull off harder stuff). Something that really helped me was staring at my opponent and playing more reactively because I noticed I mostly watched myself on the screen.

Literally stare at them and exert no more effort than you have to. This means dash dancing and baiting something out until you can get a grab as marth. If you can't get a grab out of neutral look to poke at them with WD d-tilt and run cancel (run, hold down so u stop running) d-tilt. Literally only do that in your neutral game and only aerial when you have a purpose.

 

[Darth_Nova32]

Sounds great, will do :D

 

[Shiftyy]

Switching to Brawl would probably be the worst thing to do tbh

 

[Sempai]

Brawl is dying. Melee is forever.

 

[LeadRod]

Honestly I had a similar circumstance. I tried to play Fox right of the bat but found that my friend was still able to beat me. The way I play I like to be controlling the match and found I couldn't do that with my playstyle and Fox. So I tried Marth and found he fit perfectly. If you keep feeling frustrated there's nothing wrong with trying out other characters to see if anyone feels better. Everyone has different preferences. (Although it is somewhat agreed on that Marth is good for starting out when learning tech skills).

 

[Darth_Nova32]

my friend Kolton is going to teach me and help me stick with Marth.
But I have tried branching out with other characters though, Falcon is fun to play but just not really me. I kinda started learning falco and loved it but wouldnt' consider maining him. Haha I tried Pikachu but then realized how difficult it would be to play him seriously. I tried Shiek once way back, I probably might go back to him. I reeeally love playing Doc though. He's probably my second favorite character of all time and maybe better than my Marth even though I haven't spent nearly as much time on him.
But yeah, Im definately going to main Marth. I got in a bad habit of approaching with Fairs and doing other things in the air and nobody told me how bad it was till recently, I gotta work on his ground game ALOT. Anybody got specific advice for this? I have troublu crouch cancelling Dtilt's, I do a lot of accidental dash atttacks. And I'l work on my pivot game.

 

[LeadRod]

my friend Kolton is going to teach me and help me stick with Marth.
But I have tried branching out with other characters though, Falcon is fun to play but just not really me. I kinda started learning falco and loved it but wouldnt' consider maining him. Haha I tried Pikachu but then realized how difficult it would be to play him seriously. I tried Shiek once way back, I probably might go back to him. I reeeally love playing Doc though. He's probably my second favorite character of all time and maybe better than my Marth even though I haven't spent nearly as much time on him.
But yeah, Im definately going to main Marth. I got in a bad habit of approaching with Fairs and doing other things in the air and nobody told me how bad it was till recently, I gotta work on his ground game ALOT. Anybody got specific advice for this? I have troublu crouch cancelling Dtilt's, I do a lot of accidental dash atttacks. And I'l work on my pivot game.

Using Fairs isn't actually a bad thing you just have to use it in the right way. For instance throwing out a wall of Fairs and Nairs is a good way to space and force your opponent to respect your spacing. However you will be punished if you are caught because Marth's air game is so poor. As for the dash attack it's typically not a good option (as with most characters) because it can be easily read. This being said if you do throw out a Dash Attack definitely make sure you tipper it. From a tippered Dash you can set up for an aerial combo because it will pop the opponent up. From there a U-Tilt or just an immediate F-Smash would be good options. Finally concerning the CC D-Tilts, if you're having trouble with the actual crouch canceling I've found you probably need to make sure to bring the control stick to center more before crouching. A good option from here is after executing a CC'd D-Tilt hold the crouch and wavedash forward for more D-Tilts or wavedash back to space things out.