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Need advice for Popo solo

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
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Dec 21, 2006
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I did a search on "Popo" and didn't really find any satisfactory threads. Anyway, I'm new to ICs but am figuring out how to be effective with both ICs but am getting ***** when I lose one.

So...enlighten me please.
 

Delphiki

Smash Champion
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Jun 20, 2006
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Your question is astonishingly vague. You asked, more or less, "How do I play one Climber?"

What, exactly, do you need help with? How exactly is your lone Climber getting *****? How did you lose Nana?

Let us know exactly what your problems are, and I'll tell you what I know.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
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Dec 21, 2006
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Oregon
Well the guides don't mention fighting with one climber at all. But it shouldn't be that difficult to give me a general idea. I main CF and Marth and could summarize what to do with either of them in about five minutes.

Some more specific questions though--Should I just rack up damage or attempt KOs? How do I avoid getting edgeguarded? Do I use largely the same moveset as with both climbers? What kind of combos can I do with one climber? What are my main KO moves? Etc.

I also have a question about losing Nana. A lot of times when I use belay to come back, Nana gets stuck under the stage and perishes. How do I avoid that?

Thanks
 

1048576

Smash Master
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Oct 1, 2006
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3,417
You should use squall to save Nana, not Belay. That keeps the IC's together so Nana doesn't just get knocked off again. Anyway, as Popo, wavedash... a lot. Run around, pegging your opponent with nairs, d-smashes, etc... Chances are, your opponent won't shield much because it's hard to get away with shielding without being grabbed when Nana is alive, so not shielding is in your opponent's muscle memory. D-Smash is your main finisher. If you are ahead in stock, try to rack up damage. If equal or behind, go for the kill. To avoid eing edgeguarded, mix up the strength and distance of your squall. If close to the stage, perform an airdodge or an up-B. The opponent usually won't expect it. I hate to be this vague, but mix up your recovery so your opponent has to guess, instead of just being precise with his/her attacks.
 

Delphiki

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I would say always go for the kill. Why? 4 kills= game. Racking up stock only improves the chances of killing. If you have the choice between kill and damage, take the kill. But his doesn't mean "don't attack unless it will kill". Damage is still beneficial, but if see a kill, take it. What was said about Squall to save Nana seems like it may be more effective, so I say try it out (I will to). What I do is Belay, then either DI away and around the lip of the edge or I Belay away from the stage and DI back. But Squall may be better because it has less lag.

Edgeguarding can be extremely painful. Like 1048576 (what the hell is with your SN?) said, it's good to mix it up. What I always do is this: if I get hit, I Smash DI and Auto-Smash DI Up so that it takes a good 150-170% to kill me. Always use WD jabs, they can lead into either a D-Smash or grab.

The combos are pretty limited, and you're going to have to play a very very mental game. Keep Ice Blocks going, Falco Laser style. The more your opponent gets hit by blocks the better chance they have of getting aggressive, and therefore messy. Blizzard/Solo Squall aren't very useful, because they have so much lag. Nairs are good, and always keep moving but watch your spacing very carefully.

As for combos....

Against fast fallers (Falcon, Falco, Fox), u-tilts, u-smashes, u-throws, and dash attacks all combo into each other very nicely and painfully :). If your opponent doesn't DI effectively you can do this:

Grab > U-throw > Dash attack > U-throw > Dash attack > D-smash/F-smash

This is a very effective and reliable zero-death combo if they don't DI. If it's not working, make sure you're jump canceling all your grabs. If it still doesn't work they're probably DIing it correctly (left or right will usually escape). Also, all fast fallers can be Chainthrown Down as long as their DI is predicted correctly. Dash attack > U-air/Nair is also effective if that first combo isn't working. Uair is preferable to the Nair in this case, as it has better combo potential.


Against medium weight characters:

(Marth, Doc, Mario, Roy, Bowser, DK, Ganon, more I'm forgetting)

U-airs are good here, they can keep them in the air for longer periods than against fast fallers. Keep wavelands or platform cancels going to so as to chase DI more effectively. Also, you can do this combo, which is quite effective, cannot be DIed out of, but is very hard to do:

Grab D-throw > Nair > Grab > D-throw..........

It's very hard to do, but with proper shuffling and spacing you can grab your opponent before they hit the ground or recover from the Nair. Best used upwards of 20% and lower than 70%.


Floaty characters:

(Samus, Zelda, Peach, Jiggs, Luigi, Kirby, again prolly forgetting some)

U-airs are your friend here, along with WD jab > Smash. The D-throw Nair works, but most characters can recover before the grab gets out. You can always jab or D-Smash though. Also, floaty characters CAN escape it with proper DI. Some of these characters you can repeatedly jab, especially at higher percents. To do this, jab, then quickly hold down. As soon as Popo crouches you can jab again. This tactic is called IASA Jabbing. IASA=Interruptible as Soon As (Frames). Another example is Link's U-smash and Pichu's taunt. IASAing is interrupting the normal lag of an attack by doing certain actions. So what you can do is jab, crouch, jab, crouch, jab, crouch, etc.. Pretty painful, and once they're at the right distance, you can get in a F-Smash, especially if you outrange them. Also, don't do this against a crouch-canceling Samus, you will get D-tilted then Baired.


Wow that turned out longer than I expected :laugh:. Good luck with your Climbers.
 

Delphiki

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Yeah it works really well if they don't DI. But if they DI either left or right they'll escape every time. You can of course tech chase, charge a F-Smash, wait for the dodge (or two if you want to get fancy :)) then release.
 

Delphiki

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Yeah against a lot of people you can charge a Smash, they'll expect you to swing, so they'll dodge. Just wait for that dodge and hit 'em. Don't expect this to work on everyone though, if you try it more than twice and they don't dodge, it's time to counter with another tactic..
 

Negative Zero

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Aug 23, 2006
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On several characters, you can usually get the down throw chaingrab to work two or three times before the opponent thinks to DI out. Spamming it will ruin its effectiveness, of course, but against Roy, Falcon, Ganon, Link, etc. you might as well tack on the extra four or five damage before ending the combo with a smash. You kinda have to end all your combos early with a solo Climber.
 

Delphiki

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Actually, all of those characters can be chain thrown to hell and back with the D-throw, as long as you predict their DI. Well maybe not Link/Roy (although you can get a few), but I know it will work on Ganon and Falcon for sure.
 

E_Ress

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To go along with what Delphinki said about the charged F-smash:

If you watch some of Chu Dats vids, you'll notice a reoccurring theme in his Popo play. He sometimes will do a down-throw, and charge a D-smash. A surprising number of people tech into the smash, and a few times he used it as the finisher.

But aside from mindgames, here are some things I always keep in mind when Popo is alone:

1. As previously stated by 1048576, wavedashing is key. Constant movement is the way to go, you'll open up possibilities if you can get an opponent to chase you. Keep in mind that this loses effectiveness against Falco and Samus, though, SHL and missiles are too good against solo Popo. Your best bet is wavedash out of a shield or something (:p I'm terrible against Falcos).

2. Your grab game is hindered, yes, but it is still very good. Delphinki has covered this.

3. Powerful moves like D-smash are important, I use wavedashing into a D-smash as an approach sometimes, it will catch some people off-guard.
 

Delphiki

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Instead of WDing into a Smash I (and a lot of others) find it better to WD into a jab. If they shield you can IASA it and grab, and if they dodge or get hit you can still D-Smash. Oh and don't do this against Crouch cancelers, or you'll get D-smashed/tilted. If you think they'll CC you can either WD grab or just Wavesmash if you're sure it'll hit.
 

choknater

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choknater
solo popo: MASTER THE MOVEMENT

play it as SAFE as you can or else your recovery will get absolutely *****. 0 to death combos can still be done on fast fallers without nana, but for people like marth and ganon or even sheik you will get combo'd like a rag doll if you don't play it safe.

memorize shield stun, wd length, platform movement, etc... and MASTER THEM! playing solo popo is way different and much more difficult (and fun) than both ic's together.

and seriously, wd smash is not really a safe move. if it gets shielded, youre dead. grabs are fine if you can land em. i personally like aerials, but that must be my heavy affinity to play any character like captain falcon. i'm a real big wavelander and pretty **** technical and i guess it's what sets my style apart from others, so my advice would probably not work for all of you unless you are confident in your tech skill. (i'm not even that confident in mine. i mess up all the time but please take my advice that solo popo wd dsmashes are NOT THAT SAFE :))
 

Dory..?

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I did a search on "Popo" and didn't really find any satisfactory threads. Anyway, I'm new to ICs but am figuring out how to be effective with both ICs but am getting ***** when I lose one.

So...enlighten me please.
Mind game, WD to smashes, and chain grab the down throw if possible.............and just play smart, everyone has tricks of their own, just find out which ones work out for you...
 

McCloudDash91

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Feb 8, 2007
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I have a question for when popo is alone. This usually wont work out of the blue, but it works when the enemy is getting up. After I hit someone, I usually do a backwards WD into a shorthop ice block. the short hop is just for visual effect/possible mindgame if I'm facing a totally new kid. But i've seen times when i shoot it while they're down, semi-good people sometimes, and no matter what they do to get up it usually hits them cause it's fairly slow. even if they go to attack, it wont cancel the ice, and if they just stay down it obviously hits them anyway. Then I WD forward and combo again.

Does this idea have any validity to it? :confused:
 

Delphiki

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Sounds like it could be useful, the only problem I can think of is the really low knockback of it. A good player will just jab you when you go in for the smash (especially if they know of the technique). I'm sure it could catch people off guard, and at the very least you'll get in the damage from the Ice Block and then start chasing. I'm going to try this out....
 

McCloudDash91

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well I like to grab into it too. unless they annoyingly jab, and if you time it right, its good for some cheap extra damage. It isnt alot of knockback, but hey, its still knockback :)

And somethin weird happens to me sometimes too when i try this. Sometimes after i get knocked a cliff and get back with a double jump only, i do the short hop ice block and i go much higher than normal. Its weird, too, the ice block shoots from a short hop height, but popo's shooting animation is significantly above the actual block. Could someone shed some light on me? :confused:
 

Negative Zero

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Aug 23, 2006
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I think I know what you're talking about. As Wobbles said in the Ice Block Cancel thread, firing off an Ice Block works as a very short jump. You move up a bit and then fall back down, regardless of any momentum you had. Whenever you use an Ice Block at the peak of your jump, it raises you higher than that jump would have normally, and you retain all your horizontal momentum, giving the illusion that it was a much larger jump.
I think that's what you're talking about, anyway.
 

McCloudDash91

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Feb 8, 2007
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Nah, i know what you're saying Zero, but its kinda like a glitch i think. I ice block materializes, even, far below popo. Its very odd..i wonder if i would get a super-jump if it happens at the peak. Cause the extra height from the shoot goes about the same hieght as a jump i think. Wow, i should try to master that :) if i can figure out why it happens...
 
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