Need a detailed DDD Information Thread!

[g-regulate]

Wanted to see if we could all group up together and get a really detailed information thread going about some of the more advanced (and simple) DDD information in this game. Lots of information seems pretty spread out on these boards, so any help from anyone (especially the Developers) would be greatly appreciated!
Examples would included:

-Percentages to get each Waddle, per pull.
-Common matchups/moves where dash attack/downB armor is most effective
-Guaranteed Uthrow -->Aerial combos
-Chaingrab opportunities
-Guaranteed combos in general
-Advanced Techs!

I have a few things in mind, yet I don't think I've played this game as much as many of you, and I certainly have not even played every matchup to be terribly knowledgeable. My goal is for someone who wants to learn DDD to look on ONE post and see lots of very basic play strategies, techniques, and knowledge. Thanks!

 

[g-regulate]

I have read that there is a 71.4% chance to throw a waddle, 20.4% chance to throw laser waddle, and 8.2% chance to throw Gordo. These are from BRAWL. Are they still unchanged for P:M?

 

[DMG]

I like your sig. +1

I would get Fly and Ripple to contribute to this. They definitely have the knowledge to answer most of this in-depth.

 

[MasterRaichu]

Not sure if you'd consider this a guaranteed combo, but I use a lot of D-throw to F-tilt in the early game, and depending on which way the opponent rolls, can usually get them with a D-smash.

For advanced tech, we could elaborate on Dedede's edge game. He floats around and attacks well out off the edge! I use a lot of Waddle Dee throws onto the stage with a well-placed Up-B for recovery most of the time.

 

[Vanguard]

For the do-it-yourselfer:

Grab your Article Floating Point list (http://opensa.dantarion.com/wiki/Article_Floating_Points)
Get yourself a hex editor. (I use HxD)
Find the float. (e.g. 2A174 = Relative odds of throwing Waddle Dee)
You'll see 4 Hex pairs for that float. XX XX XX XX (2A174 = 42 0C 00 00)
Take all of those and convert the hex value to float. (http://gregstoll.dyndns.org/~gregstoll/floattohex/)

Relative odds of throwing Waddle Dee = float point 2A174 = hex value 420C0000 = float value 35.00
Relative odds of throwing Waddle Doo = float point 2A178 = hex value 41200000 = float value 10.00
Relative odds of throwing Gordo = float point 2A17C = hex value 40800000 = float value 4.0
Relative odds of throwing Capsule (items only) = float point 2A180 = hex value 40400000 = float value 3.0
35+10+4+(3)=49 or (52).
35/49 = 71.4% Chance of throwing Waddle Dee (With items off. 67.3% with items on)
There you go!
---
This of course won't help you with hitbox stats. You'll need PSAMod1.3.0 for that. And that has quirks.
I'm hopefully going to be getting some steam going for framedata threads in general coming up. That'll be a good start.

 

[Ripple]

From what I understand, Me and Fly have quite varying opinions on how to play DDD and what moves of his are actually good.

I think inhale is insanely good and down-b is bad.

 

[Morphine]

ripple! I watch you and flys vids with joy seeing my regal King doing his name justice. Could you possibly elaborate on your post? I've found that downb actually works as a mix up to the usual moveset you see with other king players, and it's also super fast (maybe not super). I also love the inhale as it really helps against spacies.

 

[Ripple]

I see down b as having far too much cooldown for what it does. Its like 2 full seconds of cool down. I am aware it has great knockback but I can't see myself ever using it unless I b-reverse that instead of inhale and they happen to spot dodge. Any other time I'm just going to be in range for a grab .

The way I play relies heaily on safe mix up options from the air. Ill do falling bair/ empty hop grab/ b reverse inhale / or double jump dair. Down b seems useless to me because of that. (So does up air actually)

If I can still place well using only like 5 moves then you guys might need to learn how I see moves and why my playstyle revolves around what it does

Waddles also suck but you do need to use them sometimes

 

[9bit]

The best use I've seen for Down-B is a DI-mixup off a grab. If you grab someone at the ledge such that you could forward throw them off stage, if you instead down throw them and they DI up and in you can pull out a super quick Down-B on them. Sometimes...

 

[Ripple]

Why would you down-b? Raun off and forward air. Guaranteed and you can probably get another at lower %

 

[9bit]

I can't find the clip or anything but they don't really go off stage. They just kinda stay in place and you stand and do a Down-B

 

[Morphine]

That dthrow to downb RARELY works and is always di dependent. That said I always find myself trying this atleast once a match. When it works it's at low percent and like riddle said I think there are better options out of grab.

 

[Ripple]

we have an infinite on bowser....did anyone else know this?

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Wha?? If I may ask, what is the infinite??

 

[Ripple]

Grab>d-throw>grab again

Didn't test it extensively but my friend said he tried DIing everywhere

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Could this be somehow related to DDD's standing grab infinite in Brawl? DDD could perform a standing infinite grab on the ledge on Bowser and DK, and one on the stage (finite) against Luigi, Mario, Samus and DK.

 

[RabidJackal]

I remember trying this a couple months ago on Bowser and I found out after a little bit of experimenting that you can DI out of it. Not sure if it's changed since then somehow, but that's what I recall at least.

 

[victra♥]

Some things i've discovered so far, feel free to correct me if i'm wrong! Also questions too.

Nair seems to beat a lot of moves coming from above and leads into other aerials or more nairs vs spacies.
Can't find too many uses for uair since i'd rather nair->aerial
Fair seems really unsafe on shield. Maybe i suck at spacing but i usually get punished pretty badly each time. Would a jab afterwards be a good option to stop their OoS option? Is it fast enough? Jab seems amazing and can lead into other moves. Do you guys usually jab once and follow up, or the double jab?
Dair from ledge seems pretty safe and difficult to punish. I also love dair to poke below plats and follow up with a drop -> aerial.

 

[Ripple]

Hey guys, how would you like to kill lighter characters at 85% and heavier/fast fallers at 130% near guaranteed?

Because we can, and you should

 

[Strong Badam]

we have an infinite on bowser....did anyone else know this?

Doesn't work against Down & Away DI, even at the ledge

 

[Ripple]

Yeah, I found out after I played against CPUs. People I play with can't DI worth a crap even if they tell me that's what they're doing.

 

[victra♥]

oh my gosh g-reg liked my post, i retire Embarrass

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Nair doesn't beat Link's sword, it seems to me that the only way to approach link from above is dair or fair.

 

[victra♥]

DAIR ON PLATFORM
FALL THROUGH NAIR
GRAB/BAIR (DEPENDING ON IF THEY ARE STILL SHIELDING OR IF DAIR/NAIR POKED THROUGH)

MMMMM i love it so much

 

[OldManDyl (OMD)]

If I'm looking to kill a character, particularly on platform stages, I Waddle Dash beneath the platform they're standing on into an UpSmash. The swing hits the Waddle first, which pauses the smash for a split second like landing a Falcon knee does. In that time, the opponent usually drops their shield and the swing continues for the kill.

Also, for a little disrespect, I pull out the Frank Thomas (turn around with DownB repetitively until fully charged while opponent is off stage).

 

[NFTsmasher]

Oo, this is a good place to post this:

Have you ever tried to recover as Dedede, you do your Up-B and then cancel it to grab the ledge, only to find yourself facing the wrong direction? Well, I found you actually have complete control over which way he faces after canceling. Simply, the last left or right input that you gave Dedede is the direction he faces after canceling his Up-B.

So instead of just canceling with down, you can do tap towards stage and then tap down.

This helps immensely if you try to change his trajectory during the Up-B jump and then cancel the the move without falling to your death prematurely.

I haven't tested this in Brawl, so I'm not sure if it is the same or not.
It is.

 

[2-Toes]

Additions and questions of my own:

A lot of Dedede mains hate up-air, but I LOVE it. It is an almost guaranteed combo into f-air on fastfallers, and has a lot of priority and knockback against floaties and can keep them in a bad position to tack on damage. Try SHFFling it and you will find that it is surprisingly fast and is much more safe to use on an air-born opponent then n-air due to the disjointed hitbox and range.

Also, d-air into grab has enough hit stun to get a grab 100% if it connects. People already know this, but I think is such a great tactic that it should be heavily incorporated into Dedede's game.

A use for down-B is during tech chases, especially if the opponent is cornered near the edge of the stage and is left with only two places to tech. It pressures the opponent and is quick enough to cover tech in place / missed tech, and can be turned around to cover the tech towards the stage on reaction. Also, it can pressure the opponent's shield if you stand behind them and charge it. You can simply let it rip on their shield and the shield stun and knockback will keep them from getting a punish, and might even shield poke or catch them out of a jump if you are lucky.

How do you guys mix up Dedede's ledge game? I have serious trouble getting back onto the stage with Dedede, especially since his second jump is so slow and small that it barely gets him onto the stage. I find myself always full hopping off the ledge, which is probably his best option but isn't safe to an opponent who catches on. I found that canceling the full jump with airdodge sort of as a make-shift wave land works, but is so slow it can still be punished.

 

[NFTsmasher]

How do you guys mix up Dedede's ledge game? I have serious trouble getting back onto the stage with Dedede, especially since his second jump is so slow and small that it barely gets him onto the stage. I find myself always full hopping off the ledge, which is probably his best option but isn't safe to an opponent who catches on. I found that canceling the full jump with airdodge sort of as a make-shift wave land works, but is so slow it can still be punished.

Ledge jump > Down-B is good to get further into center stage or away from the opponent.
Also, when wavelanding from the ledge, make sure to drop from the ledge by pressing away, and dropping from the ledge and then striking the opponent with a Fair or Uair is another option if they are too close.

If you find yourself Up-B'ing offstage, remember what I pointed out up above.

 

[victra♥]

How do you guys mix up Dedede's ledge game? I have serious trouble getting back onto the stage with Dedede, especially since his second jump is so slow and small that it barely gets him onto the stage. I find myself always full hopping off the ledge, which is probably his best option but isn't safe to an opponent who catches on. I found that canceling the full jump with airdodge sort of as a make-shift wave land works, but is so slow it can still be punished.

Dedede has this problem in brawl as well, but luckily with the weird ledge mechanics in pm just you can just from the ledge and act immediately from it. Ledge jump -> dair beats/trades with almost everything. Otherwise you can plank the ledge, drop -> fair if theyre close and waddle dee toss from the ledge if theyre far.

 

[NFTsmasher]

Dedede has this problem in brawl as well, but luckily with the weird ledge mechanics in pm just you can just from the ledge and act immediately from it. Ledge jump -> dair beats/trades with almost everything. Otherwise you can plank the ledge, drop -> fair if theyre close and waddle dee toss from the ledge if theyre far.

But make sure to be careful versus characters with a good spike while you are planking.

 

[victra♥]

you should be ok if you refresh your invincibility frames in time