Nair or Nair?

[EZえん]

When is first hit nair better/worse than second hit of nair (or both)? Second hit pops up to combo most characters better, but single hit seems to be better in the neutral occasionally?

(Bonus points if you tell me which to use (and when) on falco)

 

[Astherath]

1st hit nair can be used for a grab setup, or for a gentleman. Second hit is used for, as you said, combos.

The big difference is the timing, as with 1st hit nair you have to fastfall it, and by doing that you effectively cut off about a third of the time the hitbox is out. During neutral, a healthy mix of both is good, as if you only do single hit nair into grab they'll start just hitting you out of it, or dash dancing, but if you only do double hit then they'll just shield.

Without good nair usage you tell Falco that he can dash dance all up in your space without any punish. Your nair is the equivalent of Falco's laser; good for zone control, and great for setups.

TL;DR: use double hit in neutral a lot if you need some breathing room/are turtling, and you use single hit to set up for a quick grab.

 

[Rachman]

single hit can be used as what is effectively an aerial jab v aerial opponents

 

[タオー]

single hit can be used as what is effectively an aerial jab v aerial opponents

How would using first hit nair as an "aerial jab" be utilized? Hit confirm to grab? As a defensive option?

 

[Rachman]

Ah I may have worded that poorly. Example, you do an uair and your opponent is still in hitstun just above a platform and you'll hit the platform in, say, 9 frames. You do a single hit nair into shield drop uair/grab to allow yourself to continue a combo which probably wouldn't have been as juicy without it. Hopefully that makes more sense. Single hit nair is very risky vs grounded opponents because of ASDI down, also similar to jab.

 

[タオー]

Ah, that makes more sense. One thing I've wanted to test out is if there is a way to Aerial Interrupt single hit Nair, as it could be utilized to setup a grab on platform to then continue a combo string by say, drop zoning a knee. I like to thing of single hit nair as a link for connecting different combo strings.

 

[Twinkles]

I think single hit nair is a sick spacing tool. I use it to come off platforms, good range for catching sloppy dashes or jumps.

 

[Schill]

How much frame leniency is there for 1st hit nair to hit confirm a grab?

Edit: As far as I know, it depends on percent so i guess the percent it works is what I'm asking for

 

[Rachman]

Against whom? Airborne opponents only? Assuming optimal conditions (top of first hit nair hits the bottom of their airborne hurtbox and then you land the next frame)?

 

[Schill]

I'm thinking top tiers that are grounded. And yes assuming optimal conditions

 

[tauKhan]

How much frame leniency is there for 1st hit nair to hit confirm a grab?

Edit: As far as I know, it depends on percent so i guess the percent it works is what I'm asking for

It's not %-dependant, all the hitboxes in the first hitbox group (aka the "first hit") are weight dependent set knockback, so the kb and stun are only affected by the victims weight.

The hitboxes do 19 frames of hitstun on spacies and 18 (or less) on heavier top tiers. So the nair is +12 vs spacies if you land asap, and +11 vs heavier chars.

However probably every character can ASDI down -> punish if you land in a range where it would be possible for you to connect the grab in time.

Edit: Oops, entered a variable wrong originally in the hitstun formula and got way too low stun. Fixed now.

 

[Rachman]

It's not %-dependant, all the hitboxes in the first hitbox group (aka the "first hit") are weight dependent set knockback, so the kb and stun are only affected by the victims weight.

The hitboxes do 19 frames of hitstun on spacies and 18 (or less) on heavier top tiers. So the nair is +12 vs spacies if you land asap, and +11 vs heavier chars.

However probably every character can ASDI down -> punish if you land in a range where it would be possible for you to connect the grab in time.

Edit: Oops, entered a variable wrong originally in the hitstun formula and got way too low stun. Fixed now.

Thanks for saving me the effort, but yea I'd recommend against it because of ASDI down if no other reason.