My one major issue with Project M

[Chzrm3]

If you know how to do PSAs, you miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight be able to re-work them yourself. It would be really challenging, though, especially if you haven't done much/any Brawl modding yet.

I would look up BrawlBox and Brawl PSA. Those are the tools that might help you. Read/watch some tutorials. I think you'll be excited by what you find! I've heard that the code for Sheik's down-B literally just looks for where Zelda is in the files and then pulls her out - you could potentially replicate that on Squirtle, Ivy and Chari pretty easily. If you want the stamina/type-weakness/swap on death mechanics back in too (o_O) that'd be a lot harder.

I'm not making any promises, but if you're passionate about this, it can't hurt to try. All I know is the PMBR is really smart and really hard-working, and this stuff is immensely challenging for them - so don't be discouraged if this looks monumentally difficult. If nothing else, it'll give you an appreciation for what these good people have done.

Good luck! =)

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

It would be cool if PT could be seen chilling in the background of every stage whenever you played Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Charizard. Of course, they'd still be three distinct characters and you couldn't switch. It would just be nice to see as an aesthetic change if at all possible.

Making them all one character would be a balance/coding nightmare, so I'm not suggesting that x___x

 

[Chzrm3]

It would be cool if PT could be seen chilling in the background of every stage whenever you played Squirtle, Ivysaur, or Charizard. Of course, they'd still be three distinct characters and you couldn't switch. It would just be nice to see as an aesthetic change if at all possible.

Making them all one character would be a balance/coding nightmare, so I'm not suggesting that x___x

How about an Ice Climbers-style thing where you play as Squirtle, Ivy and Chari simultaneously? This seems like it would be easy to balance and also would give everybody what they want. Most importantly, it would make space for

 

[Starbound]

I would put it together myself if someone could give me some direction on this, but based on the feedback I'm seeing in this thread, I don't think anyone would be cool enough to help me out on that issue.

If no one is telling you how to do it.... then they probably don't know how to do it.

Just give me the option to choose a version of Project M where its back in one character, if this becomes a balance issue, me and my friends, simply do not give a ****, we're not trying to join any professional tournaments.

No one is going to make another version of project M exclusively for you, your friends and the other 10% of the people who liked the Pokemon Trainer quirks. You're really overestimating the work involved in another release, especially for the satisfaction of a small minority.

You claim that you aren't the only one that wants the Pokemon Trainer quirks back. Ok, fair enough. What happens to someone else who wants take Pokemon Trainer to professional tournaments? Do they get screwed over by you not giving a **** about professional tournaments? Does the PMBR have to make a fourth release featuring a balanced Pokemon Trainer (which requires going back through four years of work to rebalance the cast accounting for what's possibly the most difficult to balance character in smash history)? All of this, just because someone wants Pokemon Trainer back?

Thats obviously not true. Do you consider Zelda and Sheik separate characters, or part of one character that requires different understanding depending on the form you take? Same for Samus and ZSS. Granted that technically all 3 pokemon are different pokemon, but all 3 were controlled by one character.

The director of Brawl is on record saying that Brawl has 39 characters. So yeah, it is obviously true that Zelda, Sheik, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard are all each considered a character.

All a part of the strategies of using the PT. Its really missed on my end. I may be in the minority, doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to be disappointed by this change.

Of course you're allowed to be disappointed. But doesn't mean anyone has to do anything about it.

TL:DR version: Stop thinking only about what you want in the project. The PMBR have lives and aren't going to make an alternate release that will inevitably snowball into hundreds of alternate releases just because you want what you want. If you want Pokemon Trainer's quirks to come back, you're only option is to figure out how (and judging by this thread, no one knows how so you're on your own).

 

[Generically Epic]

I like PT in the game... not his voice, but his presence... his voice was REALLY annoying, and I can see why he never talked... He also wanted lucas's fsmash....And he got a bit TOO friendly with his pokemon, to the point where they seemed a bit freaked out...
He had some of the best outfits in the game sadly... Seriously, his outfits is how THE REST SHOULD HAVE BEEN. He had some from emerald, crystal, and gary!
I'm fine with him being in the background... if his voice was cut or replaced with pokemon origins red... But I don't see it happening.

 

[Mono.]

and gary!

I really don't want to start THAT argument here on this board but goddamn it every time

 

[Jade_Rock55]

If PT isn't coming back then does the PMBR have plans to fix adventure mode?I can't even start the kirby vs mario match in SSE...

 

[SonicDash]

Your problem is actually easily solved. Stop playing projectM and go play Brawl :S

 

[Generically Epic]

I really don't want to start THAT argument here on this board but goddamn it every time

look, I know he is green/blue depending on what game you have. ><; I just don't want people ******** about that.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Just give me the option to choose a version of Project M where its back in one character, if this becomes a balance issue, me and my friends, simply do not give a ****, we're not trying to join any professional tournaments. It becomes less over representation of the franchise when they're merged back into one character, don't know how you can argue otherwise.

I personally loved learning the stamina system and learning how to strategize with such a unique character. You're cons are all things that I liked about the trainer and really made him great, because I understood how to dominate with him, and I loved the ability to switch between 3 very different characters.



Way to miss the point entirely. If they returned the ability to switch between the 3 pokemon and didn't have the trainer in the background, that would not be an issue at all (though I'd question why they removed him). And at least the trainer was clearly Red from the franchise, was cool to see human representation from the franchise and not simply the monsters.

You and your friends don't give a ***, sure, but 90% of those who play P:M do. This is made with everyone in mind, but somethings take priority.

The stamina system was bad. Think of Dedede vs PT in brawl. He has Infinite chaingrabs on both Ivysaur and Charizard, but the match-up is even when you are squirtle. The forced switch after KO'ing and the stamina system really make it hard for PT to win in a thigh-level setting.

The fact that they are split or separated don't make the franchise more or less represented than before since we still had 6 pokemons. Just because they are connected by PT doesn't mean each is an independent character on their own right.

And all of the 3 pokemon got a new special and their game was balanced around those. adding the PT back would be bad.


If you didn't give a **** about tournaments and doesn't see how the stamina system just drags down the 3 pokes, you can't say you ever dominated Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Mr.Random]

Your problem is actually easily solved. Stop playing projectM and go play Brawl :S

I was waiting for you to say that. Thank you. He definitely can't argue with that.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Let me start by saying, I love Project M, I do. But if I have to be honest, there is one change that's been made that I just hate. The handling of Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard is really disappointing to me. I love the Pokemon trainer, especially his ability to rotate between 3 characters, a lightweight, middleweight, and heavyweight was truly unique and required a different type of strategy than all other characters. But by making them 3 separate characters, the magic of these characters is lost a little bit on me. Plus this extends the pokemon roster from the 4 originally in Brawl to 7 (thanks to the inclusion of Mewtwo which truly is fantastic). I really do feel like that looks like over representation of one franchise. But the worst part of it all is the smash ball, if you are one of these characters and destroy a smash ball, the ball disappears, but the pokemon has no special, it becomes a handicap.​

​

Now, it is cool that they each have a new move now, but the hacking community had long ago found a way to give these characters each a single new move by linking it to one of their taunts, thereby still retaining the ability to be called back and a new one thrown out. I think this is simply a better and more effective solution if the issue was only about giving the characters each a new move, though I'm sure its more than just that.​

​

Point is, I miss the Pokemon Trainer and am disappointed the 3 pokemon become separate characters that can't be switched between. ​

​

Is there possibly a way to revert just these characters into the one they once were all the while keeping everything else about Project M? That would be pretty fantastic.​

I'm with you, big guy.
It's astonishing how people just "don't understand" that some people out there LOVE the P.T. as a character, and the rotating Pokemon gimmick. (Gimmick that, bear in mind, was the sole reason why all of these characters were even included).

I dropped all of the 3 starters altogether because to me it was a complete package. Either ALL of them, or NONE of them.

I love P:M as well... But I really hate what they did with SquIvyZard and Pokemon Trainer. Not a HUGE offender, since I just pick up another character instead.. But people should bear in mind that there were several PT mainers in Brawl who loved him just as he was. The only thing that was needed was a few buffs here and there, and that's it.

However, I'm pretty confident in Pokemon Trainer's inclusion for SSB4, so if I want to play as the Trainer or as Sonic, AS THEY ARE MEANT TO BE PLAYED, then I'll just patiently wait for SSB4.

At least that means I get to main different characters on different SSB games. I'm having a lot of fun maining Roy, Mario, and trying to master Pikachu (with the trainer's hat, for y'all Trainer haters).


BTW, my solution was that each Taunt should be assigned to a different Pokemon. And that when you get KO'd you won't get switched. That way, a player has FULL CONTROL of the Pokemon you get to use without being forced to switch.

EDIT
Boy, the maturity level of people attacking the TC is impressive...
*And unsusribing from thread before I lure some haters*

 

[Ginge]

It's not that we hate the Trainer, but bringing it BACK into Project M would be a lot more work for PMBR than you guys are taking into account. They would have to evaluate the stamina system, the forced switch on death mechanic, and type advantages. And there would be balancing issues with the other characters.

And as was discussed, even if they brought back the mechanic of switching, but ignored the negatives that come with it, it would be completely unfair in a tournament set up. Your opponent might pick a good Charizard counter character and stage, and then you just switch to the Squirtle moveset. Also, a lot of matchups heavily favor one of the Pokemon, but not all 3. So you really only use one during a match as it is.

Each of the PT trio on their own in Project M is 1000 times more viable than the trio as a one unit ever was in vBrawl. Even just looking at the new Down-B that they all got is such an amazing buff.

Now, as for your opinion about liking the switch. If the switch was literally the only reason you played the character, I'm not sure you really appreciate the individuals enough. I like all three of them enough separately that I'd consider using them as an alt. But in vBrawl, I found myself playing as Squirtle 95% of my time as PT, and Ivysaur 4.99999% of the time, and the only time I was ever Charizard was the time it took to loop back to Squirtle

I would enjoy the switch mechanic in vBrawl if it was a CHOICE. But the switch on death and stamina mechanic made matchups that only one unit was ideal be a pain. You lose a life and you have to find time to Down-B twice to get back to the ideal matchup. Or you have to play on a matchup that is against your favor to damage the unit, then switch to the good unit for kills like the Sheik/Zelda players like to do. But the switch eats up a lot of time and is VERY punishable.

 

[Veishi336]

This probably wont solve the problem in anyway but it would aesthetically....
Suggestion: Just have the PT in the background like he usually is but not being able to switch out pokemon...just..........umm.....use one.
Like Squirt,char,and ivy would enter in at the beginning of the match (each separately) while the PT just says "Go_____!" and the match starts where you use only one pokemon with the trainer just chillin in the background. Good enough?...probably not but hey *shrugs*

You can't please everyone

 

[Ginge]

This probably wont solve the problem in anyway but it would aesthetically....
Suggestion: Just have the PT in the background like he usually is but not being able to switch out pokemon...just..........umm.....use one.
Like Squirt,char,and ivy would enter in at the beginning of the match (each separately) while the PT just says "Go_____!" and the match starts where you use only one pokemon with the trainer just chillin in the background. Good enough?...probably not but hey *shrugs*

You can't please everyone

Removing the code to make PT invisible actually breaks the game, from what I've heard.

Edit: and even if it wasn't, there'd be an issue with PT's coloring when you have Squirtle and Ivysaur both being, say, red. Cause then what color would PT be?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

You can't please everyone

incorrect. The PMBR just has to make a download for every possible combination of people`s wants.

 

[Veishi336]

Removing the code to make PT invisible actually breaks the game, from what I've heard.

Edit: and even if it wasn't, there'd be an issue with PT's coloring when you have Squirtle and Ivysaur both being, say, red. Cause then what color would PT be?

ahh...didn't know that he'd completely break the game....*throws suggestion out the window*
and he'd be Red of course...get it....get it?......(sad jokes i know). But in all seriousness yea i would figure that'd be a problem as well.

incorrect. The PMBR just has to make a download for every possible combination of people`s wants.

errmmm.....yea that......yea wont work

 

[shinhed-echi]

I understand that at this point it'd be WAY too much trouble to include PT. So I'm not even going down that dead end again...

But it would've been great to at least have the P:M users try him out in early builds, and THEN everyone would draw a more tangible conclusion of wether P.T. breaks the game or not. Sadly, he was never given the chance, and now we may never know.

I loved all 3 of them, but like I said, to me it was a packaged deal. Adjusting the match up was the whole point of him IMHO. Stamina didn't even bug me that much, and bear in mind I did play competitively as him. But hanging out in the PT boards for like, 5 minutes gave me enough strategies to safely switch when tired.


BUT! Like I said, I'm not going down THAT route again. I'm quite happy how P:M turned out, being P.T. my biggest, if not only, gripe. I learned to simply deal with it in my own ways, and just took this opportunity to share my sentiments with the OP, because he's not alone.
But hey, maybe I'll cross my fingers for a standalone Trainer character with P:M's clone engine. :D That, or like I said, waiting on SSB4 to play as him completely again.

IF PM comes to a point where PT is ever considered to be included, then I'll definitely butt in on the discussion to share some ideas. But for now, it's no use.

 

[JOE!]

Shinhed-echi, what about the people who like the separated mons? For example, I loved PT but hated squirtle, so now I can just play as Ivy or Zard without HAVING to use squirtle.

The way I see it, separating the mons brings more to the game than having them linked would as I feel -more- people liked just 1 or 2 of the trio, and play one of the mons now because they aren't anchored to ones they dislike / aren't good with. Like, for every one person who liked all 3 as a unit, there were probably 2 more that liked only 2/3, or 1/3 of them.

I would guess that the swapping was tried out at first, but there are a few issues with it from a conceptual standpoint:

1) Unlike sheik / zelda (which I also feel could use a separation due to issues I'll say below) which are A <-> B swaps, PT had A <-> B, B <-> C, C <-> A, triple the amount. So at any given time, you have 3x as many CP options as Sheilda based on stage/MU which is incredibly hard to balance around by itself: how do you make a character not-broken when no stage hampers it / no counter to anything exists? Even characters with "at worst 50/50" spreads still have things one can exploit about them, with PT the only thing would be the switch IF he didn't swap to a mon that just flat out beat your character or was incredibly good on that stage.

2) Given just how malleable the concept is to be able to swap characters (and thus entire Match-ups) on the fly is, the pokemon would either need to be homogenized to be more like stance-changes of a similar character, or be reduced to merely half characters to enforce swapping (which is kinda what Stamina tried to do... badly). Either option isn't too appealing as the pokemon then lose individuality -or- become incomplete in some way (However, if it worked like Mahvel where you could say, swap mid combo or have a poke pop out for an assist, that'd be the ****.... though incredibly hard). In either case, the time would need to be spent balancing 3 characters as if they were one as well as avoid the incredibly thin line between OP and UP with this kind of concept (Brawl's PT was UP due to a few issues, and a PT that could counter everything and anything would in turn be OP). We see this with Sheik/Zelda currently where a good portion of players swap mid-fight depending on the playstyle of their opponent or at certain points/stages to better control the space. It is acceptable now due to the huge differences in them being risky, but at the same time a MU that is even vs Sheik but Losing vs Zelda seems a tad unfair that mid-fight the player could just swap to Zelda is Sheik is in trouble, no? (Esp given how they are both "good" now).

3) Given that balancing the 3-in-1 character would be very difficult in concept as it'd be incredibly easy for it to be either just underwhelming or overwhelming (it's argued that Sheilda is better than either two alone due to the flexibility...), or mess with the personality of the individual mons to the point of them not really even being "characters", it was probably a wise move to separate them and flesh them out. For one, this gets rid of the mid-match CP issue altogether, as well as allowing the Pokemon to be fleshed out as entire characters themselves that PT fans and new fans alike can enjoy.

Could they have been balanced as a team? Of course, but given the scope of this project (IE: ultimately a fan project with limited power in terms of what they can *actually* do) it is probably best they avoid the giant problem of balancing a 3-in-1 character and instead get 3 for the price of 1.

 

[IronChar]

I was able to start SSE while with 2.6. unsure why 3.0 can't play though it.

pokemon trainer could come around in a giga bowser like fashion- a hidden character that can be accessed holding down R or something that is simply one of the 3 pokemon with the ability to character change with a side taunt? just a thought. How hard could it be to partly incorporate PT back in the game, they could satisfy a lot of gamers and resolve any glitches around the trainer

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I just want him back for SSE really...I am enjoying Charizard's down b.

 

[Ace55]

You can't please everyone

This basically answers the whole thread.

 

[FireBall Stars]

I believe it's also good to remember that the loading times between the pokémon in Brawl are way too big and there's no way to work around that, inevitably pokémon change turns into a failed mechanic that does not accomplish what it was meant to.

 

[F. Blue]

Whenever the glitch with Pokemon Final Smashes not activating is fixed, the new Final Smash should be Pokemon Trainer. He could throw Pokeballs, or catch other players inside of them, but most importantly he should switch you out for another Pokemon, not even necessarily a starter.

 

[GP&B]

I was able to start SSE while with 2.6. unsure why 3.0 can't play though it.

pokemon trainer could come around in a giga bowser like fashion- a hidden character that can be accessed holding down R or something that is simply one of the 3 pokemon with the ability to character change with a side taunt? just a thought. How hard could it be to partly incorporate PT back in the game, they could satisfy a lot of gamers and resolve any glitches around the trainer

Very, it's been said multiple times throughout the history of the project that taunt change won't work.

 

[Lethalx]

This is yet another dumb thread , but I have a solution. Get PT texture over snake>Play team battle>Have your teammate play as which ever pokemon you want>Problem solved. Or go play brawl

 

[lag comp]

One thing that I hate with these type of topics where the TC's opinion differs from a majority of other posters, is the douchebags attitude that these posters have. The inability of understanding/aknowledging the point of view of TC's topic and the need to bring down his point.
''Omg! why yuo want PT back???!!!? I dont unduhstan! ure so laem!''

TC may be hard headed but it's no reason to call his idea stupid dumb or what not. He likes the old Pokemon Trainer, he has all rights to start a topic about it even though he may be in the minority but people shouldn't bash him for it. He brought up an idea that is highly unlikely of being done, stop crapping on his opinion and giving idiotic/******** solutions.

 

[Ginge]

We did give him valid reasons why it wouldn't be changed, explained that it would be difficult to undo that change, and told him the best place to get started if he wanted to try to bring it back for himself.

Some may have gone overboard in shooting him down. But the point that was made: if you want to customize it for yourself, go for it. But PMBR can't make a special version of the game for all requests like this.

 

[smashbro29]

It would be cool to see Pokemon Trainer put in as a playable character. It'd be an interesting concept that wouldn't require any addition modeling. Throw rocks, ride a bike. Maybe?

 

[Saito]

AS THEY ARE MEANT TO BE PLAYED.

Just gonna drop in to talk about this statement.

Since the Pokemon that PT originally controlled are separate characters in Project M, they are meant to be played as separate characters.

 

[Chzrm3]

One thing that I hate with these type of topics where the TC's opinion differs from a majority of other posters, is the douchebags attitude that these posters have. The inability of understanding/aknowledging the point of view of TC's topic and the need to bring down his point.
''Omg! why yuo want PT back???!!!? I dont unduhstan! ure so laem!''

TC may be hard headed but it's no reason to call his idea stupid dumb or what not. He likes the old Pokemon Trainer, he has all rights to start a topic about it even though he may be in the minority but people shouldn't bash him for it. He brought up an idea that is highly unlikely of being done, stop crapping on his opinion and giving idiotic/******** solutions.

I think a lot of it's because of the harshness of his tone. He says he hates the changes done to PT, thinks the Pokemon are lame now, refers to them as crippled...

He did take a few lumps in this thread, and I do feel bad about that. It's never cool to see anyone getting ganged up on. But I think that's what causes people to get annoyed - when someone's saying "That is super disappointing to me. One of my favorite unique characters that I learned to dominate with. Now I have no interest of just being one of the pokemon. Also sucks that they lose final smashes, why do they have to become crippled? So lame.", they kind of go from 'let me explain why this is wrong' to 'let me poop on this person for disrespecting mah PMBR!'

 

[F. Blue]

It would be cool to see Pokemon Trainer put in as a playable character. It'd be an interesting concept that wouldn't require any addition modeling. Throw rocks, ride a bike. Maybe?

It would absolutely require additional modelling. PT in brawl has inferior bones and like 3 poses and one unused jump pose. The animation roadblocks are why I suggested a final smash. A final smash only character could be designed with a limited moveset to ease the workload for everyone.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Like take an instance where you'd WANT to stay as a certain Pokemon for a matchup, but you're forced to switch because of stamina or when you die.

EDIT: Damn you JOE!

That was the point of their design compared to Shiek/Zelda.

You needed to know all three to play them because stamina was a thing, Shiek and Zelda you can ignore one or the other, you couldn't do this with Shiek/Zelda.

I'm indifferent on this since either way I get to use PT or Charizard if I only got one. But people want something on both sides, so it's a tricky subject.

 

[Blarg I'm Dead]

This topic makes me lol. The OP is given multiple examples of balance and why PT isn't coming back and counter arguments are essentially piss poor arguments based off emotion.

"Yeah... I liked Pokemon trainer though..."
"B-b-but he doesn't have a final smash anymore, you guys nerfed my favorite character."

 

[smashbro29]

It would absolutely require additional modelling. PT in brawl has inferior bones and like 3 poses and one unused jump pose. The animation roadblocks are why I suggested a final smash. A final smash only character could be designed with a limited moveset to ease the workload for everyone.

Well the more you know. Still think it'd be a cool addition to the roster, the idea of playing as the trainer is one I've always really liked.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Just gonna drop in to talk about this statement.

Since the Pokemon that PT originally controlled are separate characters in Project M, they are meant to be played as separate characters.

Don't go over-estimating P:M's importance. It's an extremely well made mod, and I love it to death, but it's called a MOD for a reason.
So it's pretty dang arrogant to say that the way these characters play here are the way they were "meant" to be played.


And since I was referring to the fact that I'm waiting for the REAL sequel, made by Masahiro Sakurai and his team, to play as them, then yeah, united is how they are meant to be played.

Not hating on the efforts of PMBR, but there's a line that needs to be drawn. But if you want me to say otherwise, then I expect this game to be sold on shelves, with Nintendo backing it up. Otherwise, it's still just a mod. An awesome mod, but still a mod.

 

[Ginge]

And since I was referring to the fact that I'm waiting for the REAL sequel, made by Masahiro Sakurai and his team, to play as them, then yeah, united is how they are meant to be played.

I'm willing to bet money PT won't be returning for Smash 4. At least, not with the same trio.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Don't go over-estimating P:M's importance. It's an extremely well made mod, and I love it to death, but it's called a MOD for a reason.
So it's pretty dang arrogant to say that the way these characters play here are the way they were "meant" to be played.


And since I was referring to the fact that I'm waiting for the REAL sequel, made by Masahiro Sakurai and his team, to play as them, then yeah, united is how they are meant to be played.

Not hating on the efforts of PMBR, but there's a line that needs to be drawn. But if you want me to say otherwise, then I expect this game to be sold on shelves, with Nintendo backing it up. Otherwise, it's still just a mod. An awesome mod, but still a mod.

You know this conversation is reminding me of a mod for a really old game that became so popular that people started thinking of it as it`s own addition to the franchise just because of the mass amounts of changes.

 

[Saito]

Don't go over-estimating P:M's importance. It's an extremely well made mod, and I love it to death, but it's called a MOD for a reason.
So it's pretty dang arrogant to say that the way these characters play here are the way they were "meant" to be played.


And since I was referring to the fact that I'm waiting for the REAL sequel, made by Masahiro Sakurai and his team, to play as them, then yeah, united is how they are meant to be played.

Not hating on the efforts of PMBR, but there's a line that needs to be drawn. But if you want me to say otherwise, then I expect this game to be sold on shelves, with Nintendo backing it up. Otherwise, it's still just a mod. An awesome mod, but still a mod.

I'm sorry if my above statement didn't present to you it's original implication. I'll state it here for you and anyone that might of missed it.

In Project M, these characters were designed as three separate characters. Therefore these characters are meant to be played as individual characters in Project M.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm sorry if my above statement didn't present to you it's original implication. I'll state it here for you and anyone that might of missed it.

In Project M, these characters were designed as three separate characters. Therefore these characters are meant to be played as individual characters in Project M.

Ah, ok, fair point.
Yeah, I'm not doing anything about it anymore. Like I said before, the project is TOO far along to even consider bringing PT back, unless he was a character of his own. I don't main the same character in every single SSB game, and I don't think a lot of people do either, which is why (although really sour about it at first) I got over it quickly. There's pretty much a character in here for every taste, so no point getting stuck in the past. My advise to the TC as well.

You know this conversation is reminding me of a mod for a really old game that became so popular that people started thinking of it as it`s own addition to the franchise just because of the mass amounts of changes.

And I'm doing the best I can to introduce this game to as many people as possible to see if it ever becomes that big. :D Hopefully bigger than DOTA.