My Ness needs as much constructive criticism/help as he can get...

[toasty]

already posted these in the video archive thread, but I guess I'll post em here so I can reach a broader group of helpful eyes =D
please understand: you can rate me, but that's not what I'm requesting, I know I have a lot to work on, I am simply taking any and all suggestions that can be made [and please, nothing innane like "you messed up that PKT"...I already know that.]
also a note for all you picky *******s out there [SAGE! jkjkjk] : if you see me upsmash twice, the second one was supposed to be an utilt. if you see me shield grab at the strangest times [like if they're ABOVE ME]...they are failed out-of-shield aerials. and I missed some potential combos because I shorthopped instead of DJC...sue me.

And yeah, I sometimes rely on dash attack too much [sometimes they'll be failed SHed aerials cuz I won't press jump hard enough]...I got punished to hell and back, esp by Sheik

THANKS IN ADVANCE! =D

VIDEOS!!


***New Match***
Vs. Fox [he was NOT having a good night poor guy]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3fx4pSlNVc

Vs. Sheik
***New Match***
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxEsPO3ixcM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8eXCsYBuZU

Vs. Marth
***New Match***
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK5JxmZqjGs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjcoETPhqvE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w117ndWEEdg

Vs. G&W [some valuable lessons learned here =/]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCGiuWKaF2k

Vs. ICs [he just started playing the GAME this summer though, and wasn't hardcore about it at that...so don't flame the poor guy haha...ALTHOUGH! If you play ICs at ALL, please post constructive criticism for him on the vid page!!! that's mostly why I posted this vid anyway]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZsfOUzea80

Vs. Roy [lolll, don't flame him for a different reason: he never uses Roy, muchless against Ness, I just think my first death is HILARIOUS..............as well as something to be aware of when fighting Roy]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgQpo3a9U7Y

 

[GildedPunch]

lol. you play a lot like me!

I would suggest a lot more mindgames from both of you.
Sorry , that not much criticism.
You guys are playing like you know waht eachother are going to do. Which, ins't surprising and not necessarily bad but, in tournament matches you can't rely SO much on predicting. you gotta learn how to fake out.

 

[Vicious Delicious]

I'm only looking @ Ness VS Sheik, so comments are only on that video...


PROS...
1) Nice 1st KO
2) What did you do around 00:51? The WD-dodge thing? It has me curious
3) You have great dodging and shield potential/skills in general. GJ @ 01:13-01:17. I lawl'd
4) Ground combat is great. Just remember your aerials!
CONS...
1) In 00:16-00:21, you did 6 Utilts. In a row. Predictability is bad in smash, along with stale moves unless they're extra special or hard to leave in combos.
2) You need to SHFFL a bit more in general. Or a bit less full jumps.
3) PK Thunder around 00:58 wasn't necessary, but I'm not gonna bight you for it. But, you should be using it only when you need to. Unfortunately, it was the catalyst for your 2nd fall.
4) Edgehogging would've been wiser for more then a couple parts.


You don't necessarily have to improve your Ness in many ways, but you need to tweak your playstyle a tad. Ness' strongest weapons are in the air, so trade a bit of your time on the ground with sick aerials. Regarding the shffl comment above, Ness can take a bit more advantage of it with the air attacks rather then just general attacks and grabs (nothing wrong with em though).
While there's bad lag with Ness, there is "good lag" also, as seen around 02:25. The good lag had sticky damage, knocking Sheik off the ledge and giving you the win for that situation. Other Ness moves have them. Find them and explot them.

I'm gonna give you 4/5. You need to work on your shffls, fair like crazy from your shffls, play with your edgeguarding and hogging, and keep going with those dodges and shields

 

[toasty]

thanks a lot both of you...hahahah about the utilt madness, I never use Ness against Sheik, but I've been trying to matchup lately and I've never, until that very moment, tried landing ANY utilts on Sheik so I was really surprised when I was able to land a couple, so I was curious as to how many I could land and I wasn't sure what kind of knockback it would end up having...wish I had known, woulda led to a sweeeet combo.

oh and looking back, it looked cool, but it was really just a sidestep immediately after a wavedash...that'd be SWEET if it turned out you could do both simultaneously o_O I'm kind of known for crazy spot-dodging abilities, at least among top-tier users ^_^

as for my SHFFL game, I try to limit my near-the-ground air time as much as I can against Marth and Sheik specifically: they're both air-grabbing c*nts and kill Ness's SHFFL/DJC approaches :'( or at least mine! haha. admittedly, my air game against Sheik and Marth needs some better mindgames to create good openings

Haha...I've been getting kinda greedy lately with my onstage PKT2 antics...most recently, 75% of them have resulted in death >_> thanks for the note though, never thought too much about it, just kept it as a thought in the back of my head...I'll make sure to remember it now haha

Yeah, I'm not very good at faking out my friends hahaha, especially that Sheik player, since I play that guy a LOT...but never his Sheik as Ness, so there were a couple missing links. thanks for taking the time to look through it and give a helpful critique though =D

hopefully you'll get a chance to look at the other vids and lemme know what you think

 

[Vicious Delicious]

Aight youtube is slow for me, so I'll review another or two tonight...

 

[thesage]

I didn't see these until just now I'll critic as soon as I can. I hope you got my stuff from the video archive as well.

Vs. Sheik:

Di up and towards sheik. You're not di'ing hard enough. She should only be able to chaingrab you up to 30 percent and afterwards only be able to hit you with a uair after a dthrow. What really kills Ness are Sheik's tilts. It's good that you can hit with utilt. Uair combos are good with sheik btw (utilt utilt to uair uair uair until not possible). The best edgeguard against Sheik is definetely simply grabbing the edge. I've read pk flash is useful, but I like to grab edge to punish lag n repeat. There's a lot more stuff but I forgot *is watching E3*.

 

[toasty]

I wasn't trying hard enough to get out of the chain grab, I was experimenting [like if you see a vid of my Pika Vs. this one Falco and I keep eating Pillar and dair-chains all day, it's cuz I'm testing out alternative ways out because you'll be surprised to find how much **** you can break out of with a simple aerial]...it...didn't go well hahaha...but yeah, thanks for the info

 

[Umpy]

i'm not going to critisis your ness cuz i just started playing ness and he is funny.

But i will critisize the GAW

Tell him to stop using the d-smash entirely unless he the key hits twice->dmash(automatically is sweet spotted). and tell him to stop dashing unless he is fighting a b00zer or ganondorf which you can somewhat combo at a low percentage.

d-titlt=god

you cant have enough d-tilt.

oh and you met my friend kyle at that tournament. the gay one with the FFA with items lol.

 

[toasty]

oh and you met my friend kyle at that tournament. the gay one with the FFA with items lol.

LOL thank god it was free haha. but yo there were like 200 people there. Was he one of the people I met a couple days before? like...gimme some details.
anyway, I use G&W too so thanks for the tip about dair->dsmash, I had no idea o_O!
as for my friend using d-smash, I know that when I use it frequently: it's an accident...like I'll try to l-cancel-->dtilt and I guess I wasn't gentle enough with the controller haha, but yeah...dsmash is also good for when you roll behind someone [only good if you can bait an fsmash or something out of them and then you roll right then...usually sweetspots]

 

[Umpy]

LOL thank god it was free haha. but yo there were like 200 people there. Was he one of the people I met a couple days before? like...gimme some details.
anyway, I use G&W too so thanks for the tip about dair->dsmash, I had no idea o_O!
as for my friend using d-smash, I know that when I use it frequently: it's an accident...like I'll try to l-cancel-->dtilt and I guess I wasn't gentle enough with the controller haha, but yeah...dsmash is also good for when you roll behind someone [only good if you can bait an fsmash or something out of them and then you roll right then...usually sweetspots]

umm i don't know but i'll give you his myspace.

he plays as marth and cpt. falcon if that helps ne and has long brown hair and kind of quiet.

myspace.com/lalaspacecadet

and he was like telling me all this **** and you were the only specific smash board user he told me about.

 

[toasty]

umm i don't know but i'll give you his myspace.

he plays as marth and cpt. falcon if that helps ne and has long brown hair and kind of quiet.

myspace.com/lalaspacecadet

and he was like telling me all this **** and you were the only specific smash board user he told me about.

ah okay yeah I remember him.

 

[Umpy]

ah okay yeah I remember him.

are you going to the one of the 28th?

i have no details to where it is or nething all i know is that he is going to one on the 28th.

i am stuck in italy :[

 

[molopo]

I only really watched the Marth fights (mainly because I play a lot of people who main Marth and needed some tips), but I can tell you now that you should stop using PKT2 so much (especially when there are much easier and safer ways of getting back on the stage). Also, when you do use it, try to aim for the ledge, and not the actual stage. Even if it's a bit over the ledge and on the stage, it's better than going above your enemy's head and/or landing behind him with like 1.5 seconds of lag (1:24 ish of the first video). Could just be a matter of aim, but just keep that in mind. Also, mix up your ledge-play a bit. I saw that you double jumped onto the stage a lot, and then you were punished with a f-air or sometimes a smash/B (2:54 second vid).

 

[toasty]

I only really watched the Marth fights (mainly because I play a lot of people who main Marth and needed some tips), but I can tell you now that you should stop using PKT2 so much (especially when there are much easier and safer ways of getting back on the stage). Also, when you do use it, try to aim for the ledge, and not the actual stage. Even if it's a bit over the ledge and on the stage, it's better than going above your enemy's head and/or landing behind him with like 1.5 seconds of lag (1:24 ish of the first video). Could just be a matter of aim, but just keep that in mind. Also, mix up your ledge-play a bit. I saw that you double jumped onto the stage a lot, and then you were punished with a f-air or sometimes a smash/B (2:54 second vid).

yeah I cringe every time I watch my ledge recoveries, I kept getting scared But man I was like WHEN THE HELL DID I START DOING SUCH PREDICTABLE CRAP!

recording does things to me if I'm already the underdog in the matchup [against the human, not the character] not a real John but I can't think of why else I'd keep doing that >_<

thanks though...and yeah, my recovery is my greatest weakness as a player with most of my characters =/

 

[toasty]

New Fox match added!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3fx4pSlNVc
[lol, yeah, the last stock I could have edgehogged, but a PK Fire would have been HILARIOUS]

 

[toasty]

New Marth match added!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK5JxmZqjGs

lolll soo many mistakes, but it's all good =D

 

[Ademisk]

Unsung Master, would it be okay if I put up your review of his videos on my video archive?

 

[toasty]

MORE SHEIKNESS!! [pun unintended]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxEsPO3ixcM

some good moments, some bad ones, but...yeah, it is what it is

 

[thesage]

I'll watch all the videos tonight.

 

[Speedsk8er]

To the IC player:

WTF @ beginning? O_o

Also, moar Blizzard grab. Desynch more often than just the standard ones. Whiffed grab desynch works. It's a pretty nice way to cover your tracks. Don't wait for nan to return to you if you're gonna combo. Solo IC combos are still combos. More damage is always better. Watch out for that PK fire. Nana's DI blows goats. She can't get out of it. Also, if you're gonna Wobble, work on the timing. Wobbling, while cheap, still demands precise timing.


I guess that's all I have to say to the IC player.


Toasty, there's not much I can recommend to you because your ness is better than mine. I was enjoying those DJC Bairs. I can't get those down consistently yet.

 

[max32090]

use back air as much as possible. wavedash+shorthop+backair with ness = deadly

 

[toasty]

To the IC player:

WTF @ beginning? O_o

thanks for the critique on him, I'll be sure to get that to him...as for what he was doing in the beginning, he was telling me about how he can desynch-shield-break because the opponent will have the incredible urge to destroy Popo...but Nana is still free to do ANYTHING. and I've seen Blues do this at ChuDat's biweekly and it actually does work as the mindgame it's meant to be, I think it was against Husband but I'm not positive...Marth couldn't touch Popo...couldn't get through the blizzard, and he racked up a bunch of damage, it was sweeeeet =D

[my bad if it wasn't Husband, but I'm reasonably certain it was at LEAST Marth]

 

[thesage]

I watched all the vids and I realized that you play a totally different Ness than me. Yours is more oriented on mindgames and the yyg while just like to do stuff... I dunno what I do actually lol.... Anyways I think you need to work on your recovery and edgeguarding first (the best and most likely to suceed edgeguard against sheik is edgehog to bat like you did). Practice sweetspotting pkt2 and learn how to ride the edges on DL64 and FoD (It's possible not sure about FoD though). Try using fair a bit more with GaW. GaW is a soft counter to Ness (he should've spammed fair way more against you). Your vids against sheik were good but you're lucky they didn't spam her tilts (which kill Ness btw). Try to yyg the needles after pk fire. Nair is a really good edgeguard and outprioritizes or at least hits a lot of characters in their recoveries. I need to play you soon. Mabye when I host a fest (which might be soon...).

 

[toasty]

Yours is more oriented on mindgames and the yyg

MINDGAMES ALL DAY! You can't rely on sheer technical abilities when it comes to anyone who has played against Ness for more than like...5 matches. Even if you surprise them in the first few because they're just not too familiar with the character, the matches will start to even out and, more often than not, start going in their favor more and more...unless you mindgame the sheeeiiit out of them.

The two keys are unpredictability and defense [master the spot dodge, it annoys the crap out of them, frustrates them, almost tells them not to be so aggressive [which makes it easier on you to stay alive and find more entry points for attack...esp against Marth!] but you have to learn, much like Marth/Roy's counters, when NOT to use it...like when they catch on to your game and they wait for the dodge. that's when you refine your evasion techniques].
Unfortunately, Samus, Falco and Sheik [and anyone who's handy with the Links' projectiles] can make this rather difficult since the easiest way to mess with them is just to dash dance, dash forward, WD backward...the classics...but you have to learn to be fast with your movements, don't stick to patterns, and you have to master when and how to attack out of these movements [I still have a long way to go on that one ]

As for your mention of the YYG, I actually don't go for it as often as I seem to. I actually USE the upsmash! It definitely messes with people, it can be a good shield against aerials [gold against Ganon's dair if you can learn the timing...and at most medium percents, BAIR!]
Charging can trip some people up too..but yeah, don't count too much on that move, I'm mostly just trying everything I can to see what works, why it did or why it didn't work, what I could do to MAKE it work, what I honestly should never try again [that usually never comes to mind since I'm always of the mindset "THERE'S GOTTA BE A WAY ****IT!"...which is how most of my crazy **** comes about]

Anyways I think you need to work on your recovery and edgeguarding first (the best and most likely to suceed edgeguard against sheik is edgehog to bat like you did).

My recovery is generally GARBAGE...with my three best character [Ness, Pikachu, Fox] my recovery is ****ing TERRIBLE and overall my greatest and most exploitable weakness...I definitely need to work on that

I need to mess around some more with character-specific edgeguarding techniques [hence my efforts against J-Wu's Sheik to semi-floorblast and use the invulnerability frames in the A-button-getup move as an edgeguard/anti-ledgehopper...but that was the first time I've actually TRIED that in a match...I've just tossed around the idea for a while...but I had no sense for the timing...which is why I got the SHlT slapped out of me]
LMAO at my dumb@ss for trying to dair a Sheik on my second stock

Hah, as for me grabbing the edge and then punishing the lag with the bat, that was allllll you buddy. After you suggested that the other day, figured I'd try it, and you were right. Thanks.

Try using fair a bit more with GaW. GaW is a soft counter to Ness (he should've spammed fair way more against you).

Well, I didn't post any of the other G&W vids I have because we both know eachother's characters extremely well and in the vids where either of used fair as much as we "should"...the other person knew just how to avoid and punish So this vid was us trying something a little different to see how it worked...some things worked and a lot didn't, but good **** was learned =D

I need to play you soon. Mabye when I host a fest (which might be soon...).

hah, yes. yes you do. As for me coming up for a fest? Not sure how likely that is. On friday I'm leaving for NY for 9 days. August 3rd, 4th, and some of the 5th I shall HOPEFULLY be in North Carolina for MP Jubilee V. August 10th I might be able to but I'm not certain. August 18th if I'm trying to go anywhere: it's Gigabits in Florida with a friend who used to live there. He's visited the Ness boards for a minute: Ether. The guy I mentioned who played AngryLobster a bunch when he went to school down there. [This also means it's crazy difficult to use Ness against him] August 27th or something: I start school >_<

then again, if you hold something during the week, I might be able to drive up with some buddies =D =D =D you should sweeten the deal and tell Mow to be there...or Hova, I want to see/play them.


Thanks for watching/critiquing.

 

[Tundravalco]

>.> so thats what a good ness looks like. very entertaining but i have no idea how to play ness so no advice ^^ but it looks good haha.

 

[toasty]

I suppose I could've just hit edit X_x

 

[toasty]

sorry for the double post, my browser was messed up and I accidentally reposted
>_>
<_<

can anyone delete the post???

 

[thesage]

Hova stopped playing Ness, I remember playing him a long time ago (on YS) and being gayed by the shy guys twice (as in thirty percent deaths) and it was still a close match. His falco is pretty good though (as in leagues beyond me...). I always seemed to be gayed in Ness dittos...

 

[GildedPunch]

really like your ness toasty.

 

[toasty]

I always seemed to be gayed in Ness dittos...

I didn't gay you in our Ness ditto =D not to my knowledge anyway

and thanks G.Punch
^_^

 

[thesage]

In most of them. They always end up taking place on ys or battlefield... You don't count you were bumblebee ness/ irish ness/ dorky ness. Not the actual Ness. (actually I don't remember that match at all except that at the end you were at you're last stock with 0 damage at the end).

 

[toasty]

I don't remember that match at all except that at the end you were at you're last stock with 0 damage at the end).

it was on FD, I remember I absorbed your PK Flash edgeguard but I did a really crappy PKT2 and I COULD have made it but...I was sloppy. And I believe if you weren't bumblebee Ness, I definitely was. And psh, the only irishman in the game is Irichu [aka Cowboy/Brokeback Pikachu]...it's SURFER NESS! anyway. I remember it being a fun match =D

 

[thesage]

it was on FD, I remember I absorbed your PK Flash edgeguard but I did a really crappy PKT2 and I COULD have made it but...I was sloppy. And I believe if you weren't bumblebee Ness, I definitely was. And psh, the only irishman in the game is Irichu [aka Cowboy/Brokeback Pikachu]...it's SURFER NESS! anyway. I remember it being a fun match =D

I'm picking up pikachu just because you said that lol. AAAAnyways... *steals vids*

 

[toasty]

I'm picking up pikachu just because you said that lol. AAAAnyways... *steals vids*

hahaha, I'd like to see your Pikachu, then we can have more dittos on our to-do list =D

 

[thesage]

My pikachu is interesting. Let's have a Zelda ditto. Two chars using the same two moves over and over again is actually quite funny.

 

[_clinton]

I like your New Shiek video...How you KOed Shiek with PKT2 was great =D

 

[toasty]

My pikachu is interesting. Let's have a Zelda ditto. Two chars using the same two moves over and over again is actually quite funny.

EW WTF. Why would you ever want to do that?!??!?! One of the worst dittos in the world But....if it's for fun? then hellllz yeah! I'd love to G&W ditto anyone though, those are extreeeemely fun

 

[thesage]

And DK and ganon dittos too.

Hey, I was wondering if it's possible to yyg off of projectiles such as fireballs, pills, turnips, and such. Something that cancels out the animation should work right?

 

[toasty]

if it cancels out the animation it will not work. to my knowledge no projectiles other than arrows and needles are YYG-able...sorry if I forgot something, it's mad late, had a crazy weekend...anyway. it'd be nice if you could YYG off of all those other things

<3<3<3 Ganon dittos =D!!!