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My first character guide: Zamus

PaulLuigi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Tucson AZ, USA
Hey all, I'm pretty new to the forums. I wanted to try making a guide of my own, and I think I've got a good start with my Zamus guide. Would you do me a huge favor and look it over?
It's not for total beginners or pros, but people in between. I put it on my website because it's a little too long for a post. No spam or pop-ups, I promise.

http://rivermanmedia.com/features/7-game-strategies/8-smash-school-zero-suit-samus

It's just the first draft, and any suggestions or comments would be great. If I use your idea I'll definitely give you credit.

Thanks!
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
3,845
Location
Currently Japan
You Sir are crazy if you think I'm going to follow a link to a site I've never been to

Post it here, it wont be "too long" if you use muti post.
 

PaulLuigi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Tucson AZ, USA
Fair enough. But for the record, it looks better with its original formatting :)

Zero Suit Samus
Course Description:

Learn some solid combat tactics with Zero Suit Samus. I’ll start off with a general overview of how to play Zero Suit Samus, then move on to her individual moves and when to use them. Finally, I’ll cover some combinations, juggles, and KO techniques.

Skill Level:

3-7: You can execute smashes and tripple jumps no problem, but aren't memorizing the priorities of every move.

Overview:

Zero Suit Samus is a fast character with a huge variety of moves, including long reach moves and a projectile, with a great recovery. Her main weaknesses are that she is light and her smashes are a bit less powerful than average.

How to choose her: Pick Samus normally. When you are ready to move to the next screen (usually the stage selection screen), hold a shield button as you hit start, and you’ll shed your suit as the battle starts. You can also change to her by quickly taunting as Samus (according to Smashbrosdojo.com; I've haven't gotten it to work yet), or using Samus’s final smash (which changes you automatically).

Attack Summary

Easy KO moves:

plasma whip (side+B), from the ground or in the air as an edge guard
up aerial, the higher they are the better
Flip Jump (down+B, then hit an attack button to kick shortly after), used over the course edge as a spike, or toward the edge as a side-KO.
forward smash
forward aerial (the second kick), especially as an edge guard
back aerial, close to the course edge
plasma wire (up+B), used as a spike over the edge

Easy Juggle/combo moves:

Dash attack- starts juggles nicely.
Down tilt- quick trip move that can lead in to others.
Plasma wire- pull opponents down toward you and stun them long enough to follow up.
Up smash- hits them up a short distance with good damage.
Down aerial- use it against an airborne character for an easy hit.

General ideas: Zero Suit Samus is fast like Sheik. This means that you want to use your speed to your advantage. Try not to leave your opponent alone any longer then you have to. Be attacking them constantly to keep them confused, disoriented, and unable to strike back.

Unlike Sheik, Zero Suit Samus also has two long reach moves: her forward smash and her plasma whip (side+B). These moves (the plasma whip in particular) give you the option to approach slowly and smack your opponent with the end of your whip, keeping them at a distance.

Zero Suit Samus also has several spikes (moves that hit your opponent straight down). These are great for KOing a player who is trying to recover. You can do these spikes without much risk because you have such a strong recovery (when you include your Down+B move, the flip jump).

Attacks


Jab:

She does a short combination of three moves. Use this when your opponent is close and the combat is chaotic, just like with most characters. The third hit is the most powerful, so if you are trying to combo you may want to only use the first two moves in quick succession to keep your opponent close.


Forward tilt:

This is a medium reach kick with low power. Because it isn’t terribly strong, I’d only recommend using this when you opponent is close, but not close enough for your jab or down tilt.


Down tilt:

A solid trip move, great for starting juggles and throwing your opponent off guard. It’s fast, short-medium reach, and hits them upward a short distance. I use it all the time.


Up tilt:

Also good for starting juggles. She turns upside down and spins around, pulling enemies close with the spin and then kicking them up at the end. It’s slightly slower than your average up tilt, but the way that it pulls in opponents from the sides makes it more reliable.


Dash attack:

Zero Suit Samus runs fast and she has a good dash attack to go along with it. This one looks like a very low jump kick. It’s a solid move that hits them a short distance up. You can usually follow it with an up smash, tilt, or jabs. Just watch for shield grabs. If you see that your opponent is shielding before you get there (or just standing there like they are going so shield), don’t do the dash attack. You can cancel out of a dash using up on the C-stick to up aerial if you want (the impact of the up aerial should shove them far enough for their grab to miss), or do something a little crazier like a throw.


Forward Smash:

It’s slow, but it has a long reach and medium power. You can get kills with this and it works as a slow, ranged approach. However, your forward+B has a longer reach and is more powerful. You’ll want to use that quite a bit more then your forward smash. One small advantage of this move over plasma whip is that it also hits opponents close behind you at the end, which is useful when someone rolls under it.


Down Smash:

Samus shoots the ground right in front of her with the paralyzer pistol. Any enemy hit by this is stunned for about 1.5 seconds, which is plenty long enough to get of any smash you want, your plasma whip, or whatever else you like. Unfortunately, this move doesn’t hit on both sides of you, so it’s not good to use if you are surrounded, unlike most down smashes. A great time to use this is when you have just dodged a slow attack and your opponent is recovering, or if you see them start to roll and you know where they are going to stop. This way, you get the damage of the down smash and have enough time to do your up smash and start a juggle, or use plasma whip if they have high damage for a KO.


Up Smash:

Samus twirls her whip high up in the air. This move has somewhat low power and is unlikely to KO, but it is pretty fast, has a long reach, and the collision box stays out there a while, making timing easy. You can damage characters approaching you from directly above with ease, or if your opponent is on the ground, you can start juggles with it. It works great after your dash attack or to cancel out of a dash. And if they are on a ledge above you, have fun.


Up Aerial:

A quick, farily powerful vertical flip kick. This move is good for KOs at high damage because of Samus’s excellent jumping. You can keep kicking them up over and over without much challenge. If you jump up and try to get them with this but they are out of reach, use your plasma wire instead.


Forward aerial:

This move does two medium reach horizontal kicks in a row. The first kick is pretty weak, the second is powerful enough to KO. Usually you can hit with both kicks if you started the move late enough, but the second kick is the important part. Sometimes I try to time the attack so that only the second kick hits, that way the first kick doesn’t disrupt things and they get hit at its maximum reach.


Backward aerial:

A single, quick, medium reach kick, strong enough to KO. Both the forward and back aerial are solid attacks, but because their reach isn’t that long, you’ll want to avoid using them against characters you know can hit you from far away in the air (like characters with swords, or a long kick like Sheik’s back aerial).


Down aerial:

Samus shoots almost directly downward (at a slight angle forward) fast, with her foot pointed down at a slight angle. This is a spike, but you don’t want to use it over the edge of the course because you’ll almost certainly get a self destruct. It’s great for taking down an airborne character below you, or a character on the ground who’s charging a smash (opponents can’t really time a smash to hit you out of this move. Its just too fast).



You can use this when you are just a little ways above them as a surprise move, but you probably don’t want to use it against a grounded character who is just standing there. Chances are, they are going to shield the move or roll away and then attack you while you are recovering (it has a short recovery time after landing). Luckily, when you land, it will hit anyone close on either side of you, so your aim doesn’t have to be perfect (and if you took a character down with you in the first part, they get hit again). Nice bonus: I’ve seen this move go right through a hammer, so use it if you are feeling lucky.


Neutral Aerial:

Samus uses her whip a short distance behind and in front of her. There is a short delay before and after the move, the reach isn’t great, and it isn’t really powerful enough to get KOs. I haven’t found a great use for this move yet, since the other aerials seem to be quite a bit better. Let us all know if you find anything.


B (Paralyzer):

Zero Suit Samus’s projectile is a bit on the slow side, but if it connects, your opponent is stunned for about a half second (more if you charge it). If they are out of reach of your plasma whip and you want to go on the defensive, you can use this to disrupt their approach and then plasma whip if it connects. Or, you can use this before charging in and possibly get in a free hit. You can use this in the air, but it is a bit too slow to be used in an aerial approach.


Side+B (Plasma Whip):

Without this move, Zero Suit Samus wouldn’t have any very reliable KO moves, and would be overall just slightly underpowered. Thanks to this move, you have a strong, long reach, medium speed move with easy timing. Use this attack often. The whip is long and goes directly horizontal. The tip is the most powerful part, but if you hit with the middle, it usually does damage then shoots the character back to the tip, where they get hit again by the powerful part. It is your best bet for KOs, and the reach makes it safe at a distance.





This move sets Samus apart from the other fast characters, like Sheik or Pikachu, because you can still get kills from far away. This move also helps you deal with larger groups. Get them all on the same side of you and whip away, as if you were using any normal long reach move like a sword (but this is even longer). You can also use this in the air, and it’s just as effective. It’s especially good at picking off recovering characters (when you are on the ground or in the air). The timing is a little bit tougher in the air, but the reach is long enough that you won’t have to worry about counter attacks if you miss. Don’t forget, you can also use this to recover in the same way as plasma wire, except that this one goes horizontal rather than up.


Up+B (Plasma Wire):

This is your triple jump without the jump part. If the ledge is above and not too far behind you, your whip will connect with it instantly and you’ll be hanging there. The whip is pretty long, but not quite long enough to be a good triple jump on its own (don’t worry though, see the next move). One big advantage of this "triple jump" is that you can do it multiple times, and you can do attacks after it too, so you don’t have to worry about when to use it. It’s also good for juggles. It’s long and goes straight up, like your up smash. Unlike your up smash, if it connects well, you’ll pull the enemy directly downward, making it a great spike (if they are hit with the beginning of the move instead of the end, it actually throws them up first).



You can also jump up and yank down a character above you, stunning them long enough for you to follow up with an easy down aerial. Depending on your opponent’s damage and weight, you can also you this as a juggle by itself. It looks like you are playing with a big yoyo as you slam your opponent up and down. However, unlike your up smash, this move won’t connect to a standing character unless they are REALLY close. Best just to use it when they are in the air. One more great time is when they are on a ledge above you. This move will smack them around again and again.


Down+B (Flip Jump):

It might seem counter intuitive to hold down and hit B when you are trying to go up, but you’ll just have to get used to it, since this is your real triple jump. Samus does a flip, propelling her upward about as much as a normal jump with a predetermined arc (you can’t influence the arc except by holding left or right as it begins), with a couple frames of invincibility right in the beginning. If you hit an attack button (or down+B again) shortly after the move, Samus will extend a foot out left or right (whichever direction you are holding), with a fairly long collision box and a good priority. If you hit your opponent from directly above with this jump kick, it’s a spike (if you’ve been counting, that’s spike #3…nice!), and it has decent power either way, enough to KO at high damages.



This move is incredibly useful. If you get used to the distance of the arc, you can use this from the ground a short distance from your opponent as a surprise aerial approach. You’ll come in at a high angle from the front or behind (depending on your starting distance). You can use the spike as an edge guard, but this is tough until you get used to it (easier to stick to plasma whip or plasma wire to repel recoveries). When you are recovering, it’s a nice third jump to use before plasma wire. If you are falling and an opponent tries to hit you with an up aerial, you can use this to get out of reach (and maybe hit back if they try to chase you). It can also get you out of the middle of a group and punish opponents who follow too close. And the best part is, just like plasma wire, you can still do moves afterwards (but you can only do this move once each time you are in the air).





Another unusual bonus of this move: you can use it while grabbing a ledge to do a very short flip back on to the ledge, facing the other direct. You can kick with it normally too. This is a nice surprise move for opponents waiting on the edge of the ledge for you to recover. And if they decide to try to edge guard you while you are still jumping back to the course, this is a great move to counter their edge guard since you might get lucky and spike them straight down for a very embarrassing KO.


Final Smash:

Samus glows, and nearby opponents are pulled close for some easy KOs. You then regain your power suit. It’s more consistent for getting KOs than many final smashes.


Fighting fast, short reach characters (like Pikachu):

Against fast, short reach characters you want to use your long reach moves (mostly plasma whip, forward smash and paralyzer) to show them that they’ll have to close with you to do any damage. Once they learn that they’ll have to get close and start using their speed, you do the same. Vary your attacks, and use your faster moves (tilts and taps) to juggle them once you close in. Punish their mistakes with plasma whip, at short or long distances.


Against stronger, long reach characters (like Marth):

You can still use your plasma whip to close slowly if that’s how you want to play (it’s just as long as any non-projectiles they have). But a better idea early on is to use your speed. Close with dash attacks and try for juggles. Just get in as close as you can and throw out quick moves (your jabs and tilts) to get juggles going. Once you’ve got them damaged, you can back off (if you want) and go for kills with plasma whip. Or, knock them off the course with a weaker move (like a side aerial) and do some edge guards (see below).


Specific combat tactics:

When the fight has just started, there is no reason not to chuck those 3 suit pieces at your opponent as the first thing you do, or at least take one with you as you approach. After that, close fast and get the juggles going.


A few juggle/combination ideas:

Plasma wire is its own juggle in the right circumstances.
Your dash attack or your down tilt can lead into an upward attack, like your up smash or plasma wire.
Once they are higher up in the air (from your up smash or up tilt), you can jump and go for your up aerial.
As they fall, you can keep going for up aerials, or use plasma wire in the air, or get just a little to their left or right and do quick jumps to surprise them with your side aerials.
After you’ve pulled them down from the air with plasma wire, you can follow with your down aerial (easy if you are already in the air, or just do a hop first).
Your down smash can start off any combination. I like to follow it by quickly dashing close and using an up smash if their damage is low (just plasma whip if their damage is high).
Here’s an example of how you might string these together, against a fairly low damage character. Run in with a dash attack. If this doesn’t hit them in the air, go for a quick down tilt. Now immediately transition into your up smash. Now they are high up, so jump up and pull them back down with plasma wire. If it connects, down aerial right away while they are still stunned. I’ve used this exact combo many times before, but every situation is different and you’ll have to vary it as you go.


Blocking a recovering character:

Zero Suit Samus is great at this. I’ve mentioned before that you’ve got three spikes, and your great recovery makes it low risk to try them (with plasma wire being the easiest to pull off, as long as they are high up). Even easier is to jump out there and use plasma whip. You’ve got more reach than any of their aerials and the timing is easy. Just jump on out there and give it a shot. No big deal if you miss, just get back to the course and get ready to attack them from solid ground as they get back. Your forward aerial (the second kick of it) is powerful enough to KO them if they are near the edge, so try this one too. Now let’s say you try one of these techniques and you miss. Like I said, recovery is easy with your triple jump + plasma wire, but you could try an edge hog instead. Just grab onto the edge with plasma whip or plasma wire and hang there. This grabs the edge so that they can’t use it. It works best against characters that don’t have a damaging triple jump (like Rob), or if they aren’t coming in at the right angle to hit you with it.
 

Garde

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Messages
619
Location
SLO, CA
This guide is incredibly simplistic, and some of the information in here is just plain wrong.

Also, I have no idea what that skill level rating at the beginning is, but if it's out of 10 with 1 being very little skill and 10 being a master, this is very misleading. If it is on the scale I assume it is, let me give you a more accurate rating for skill levels in this game...

Level 1 - "I just use <insert special move> and smash attacks because they look cool!"
Level 2 - "What's a tilt?"
Level 3 - "Wow, tilts are actually pretty useful. What's SHing and FFing? What's DI?"
Level 4 - "Alright, I know all the moves and these basic techniques, what are these mind games you speak of?"
Level 5 - "Why don't my mind games work on these lesser skilled people?"
Level 6 - "My friends who play this game casually call me a cheap ******* with no honor and they won't play against me anymore."
Level 7 - "I place in the top 5 at local tournaments and place somewhere between the middle and lower quarter of bigger tournaments." (in places with incredibly skilled smash crews, the local tournaments thing is irrelevant)
Level 8 - "I win local tournaments all the time and place fairly well in regional/state tournaments." (in places with incredibly skilled smash crews, the local tournaments thing is irrelevant)
Level 9 - "I am known for being one of the best players in the nation overall, and possibly the best at my own character in the nation/world."
Level 10 - "I consistently place top 5 in national tournaments, everyone knows I'm one of the best."

This should be a 1-3 skill level guide, people who have a grasp on how to perform all the moves and maybe some sense of spacing/timing.

One example of something blatantly wrong is that you say people cannot hit you out of d-air with smash attacks because "it moves too fast". You could not be more wrong, as it's VERY easy to time attacks to beat out d-air. If your opponents cannot, they are probably around a skill level of 2, aka "Doesn't know about tilts, overuses/charges smash attacks, and has a poor sense of timing and spacing."

Having weak smash attacks is not a weakness in itself. Her d-smash has a set amount of knockback, but it's useful for comboing. Her up-smash doesn't KO, but it sets up for juggles at lower % and even at higher % it puts people above you for up-airs. Her f-smash is her worst smash, but it comes out about 5 frames faster than her side+B and has similar reach (slightly shorter range than side+B), so you can sometimes hit people at range with this more easily than with side+B (it leaves you vulnerable for something like 30-40 frames though, so it's not something to be thrown out without good reason). Which reminds me, you said the f-smash is good for a slow approach, which is entirely wrong. If someone shields this move, they have more than half a second to do ANYTHING they want, and most moves don't take half a second to start (you could charge most smash attacks, Warlock/Falcon Punch are two moves that you actually can't land).

Her only two weakness are how high her Short Hop (SH) is and how light she is. She also suffers from the tether weakness, but her tethers are so good (the undisputed best in the game), her midair jump is AMAZING, her down+B is a recovery move that doesn't leave her helpless, and she is floaty enough so that it's actually difficult to successfully edge hog her.

She has decent to good priority on all of her moves, and many of them come out really fast. Her f-air seems to auto cancel or has very minute landing lag.

Her up+B is not easy to KO with for several reasons. If you do it while standing on the stage, ANYONE can just DI towards the stage and hit ground. Also, opponents can attack the spiking hitbox (fairly easily) if you try to do it from high above while off stage. If you jump off the stage to try and spike them, a good player will either avoid the attack or cancel it and get over to the ledge as fast as possible to edge hog while you are in lag from the up+B. If you've expended you're normal mid-air jump to space yourself properly, there is an even better chance you will get edge hogged or edge guarded by a player who knows simple edge guarding tactics.

From dash attack, you're best options afterwards are up-tilt or jab A. You use up-tilt if you successfully hit the opponent and they are in range, this pops them into the air right above you, making it VERY hard for most characters to DI away from up-air juggles. You use jab A or up-tilt if the opponent blocks, many people go for a shield grab, and since both moves are incredibly fast (Jab A comes out in 1 frame, up-tilt comes out in 2, her two fastest moves in the game for interrupting attacks), you will hit anyone that tried to shield grab you (provided you spaced properly). Jab A is safer because you can play shield pressure games with the first and second jab by jabbing once, then waiting. If they don't grab by the time the jab animation finishes, do another, and if it looks like they'll grab, do the 2nd jab in the sequence to hit them out. Don't go to the 2nd jab prematurely as that guarantees a shield grab for them. If the opponent is knocked too far away to with either of these moves, they're usually in range for a side+B, SH side+B, or another dash attack/dash up-smash.

D-tilt is a good move to use when you need a bit of reach and you want to trip or pop someone up. F-tilt is a better move overall. D-tilt comes out 1 frame faster, but has more lag afterwards, and if it doesn't trip you need to immediately go into the air for juggling. F-tilt has shorter reach, but is better for combo setups because regardless of whether you trip the opponent or not, you can get a dash attack in, then up-tilt, then go into juggles, which results in something like 15-20% more damage than a d-tilt would and helps reduce stale moves penalties on up-air juggles.

Zamus' dash attack is her safest approach on the ground because it has a lot of reach, travels fast, and is active as long as her leg is in front of her (until the end of the move). This allows her a relatively safe approach, even against shielding opponents, and she can often times jab or up-tilt an opponent before they can do anything when spacing properly with the dash attack.

Zamus' neutral B is laggy and not a spammable projectile. It can stop ground approaches against opponents who aren't too careful, but it will ONLY set up to a side+B if it's charged, otherwise opponents can shield. Dash attacks or grabs are usually the best follow up to uncharged shots (mixing them up makes it more difficult for an opponent to react properly).

For the item tactics, just chucking the items mindlessly at your opponent is a horrible idea. Anyone with half a brain will shield them and they'll settle at his feet, allowing him to use them against you. In order to make the items useful, feint throws, throw them up in the air (by where you'll be) and throw attacks out from the safety of your own items while they bounce around you. If an opponent tries to approach you or attack you while your items are bouncing in front of you, he will at best tie with the item and cancel his attack (if you've spaced it properly, otherwise the best case is that he grabs it). Often times, this prevents your opponent not only from taking an offensive approach, but it severely limits their defensive approach as well, since the items make it difficult to punish yourself. As long as the items are bouncing, you are limiting your opponent's options.

Your bit about blocking recovering characters... I'm completely lost why you used ROB as an example. While he may not be able to attack during his up+B without canceling it (the up+B DOES immediately cancel into attacks), he can use it indefinitely until the he runs out of boost (which is set to full whenever he touches ground/hangs on a ledge), so he could easily cancel it to perform an aerial attack (probably an up-air since it's fast) and then up+B onto the ledge. I don't really see him having problems recovering onto the stage in the first place because he's floaty and the up+B has an insane amount of boost (on some stages, he can star KO himself with it), he usually won't have to deal with getting edge hogged in the first place.

Oh yeah, that "little bonus" for down+B isn't something unique to that move at all. If you press down or away while hanging on a ledge, it will make you drop from it. Pressing down+B makes you drop from the ledge and then performs the down+B. This technique has been commonly used in competitive play since SSB for the N64 and is often referred to as ledge dropping or ledge jumping (since you can midair jump for an instant aerial attack from ledges this way).

There are more things, but I'm at work and this is all I have time to point out.
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
3,845
Location
Currently Japan
Good god Garde, I may have only read like three random paragraphs in your guide but I've already learn a bunch of new juice information that will help refine my strategies with Zamus.

Great read

..Oh and Paul I'm sorry you got showed up so badly but his advise is better, however it was a nice attempt for a first guide so good job.

Edit: I laugh at some of the comments Garde rating scale has, mainly at level 6.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Utilt's hitbox comes out on frame two or three, or something like that.

In case you're unaware, that's really frikkin' fast.

Also, Garde: I've found fair to have more landing lag than bair or nair. Nair is ****ing amazing, by the way. Shield pressure with a well spaced one from behind then move into jabs and tilts. It's amazing.
 

PaulLuigi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
9
Location
Tucson AZ, USA
Hey Garde, thanks so much for all the comments! With all the information you wrote in response, you may as well have just written a guide of your own, if you haven't already :)

I'm pretty sure that you're a lot better than I am, which is why your scale from 1-3 is the more like my scale from 1-7.

This guide is incredibly simplistic, and some of the information in here is just plain wrong.

This should be a 1-3 skill level guide, people who have a grasp on how to perform all the moves and maybe some sense of spacing/timing.
Okay, for a lot of the people on this forum you are probably right, and they would use your scale. However, I want it to be readable and interesting for someone who's never seen a guide before in their lives.

This guide is incredibly simplistic, and some of the information in here is just plain wrong.

One example of something blatantly wrong is that you say people cannot hit you out of d-air with smash attacks because "it moves too fast". You could not be more wrong, as it's VERY easy to time attacks to beat out d-air. If your opponents cannot, they are probably around a skill level of 2, aka "Doesn't know about tilts, overuses/charges smash attacks, and has a poor sense of timing and spacing."
Really? I've not seen many people who can smash Zamus out of it consistently. Like, are you saying it's even easy for slower up smashes to hit her out of it, or only characters that have fast up smashes? It also seems like it would depend somewhat on how high up you are.

Having weak smash attacks is not a weakness in itself. Her d-smash has a set amount of knockback, but it's useful for comboing. Her up-smash doesn't KO, but it sets up for juggles at lower % and even at higher % it puts people above you for up-airs.
Call me crazy, but I tend to think it's an advantage when a smash just GETS A KILL, rather than sets an opponent up for another move that might kill.

Her f-smash is her worst smash, but it comes out about 5 frames faster than her side+B and has similar reach (slightly shorter range than side+B), so you can sometimes hit people at range with this more easily than with side+B (it leaves you vulnerable for something like 30-40 frames though, so it's not something to be thrown out without good reason). Which reminds me, you said the f-smash is good for a slow approach, which is entirely wrong. If someone shields this move, they have more than half a second to do ANYTHING they want, and most moves don't take half a second to start (you could charge most smash attacks, Warlock/Falcon Punch are two moves that you actually can't land).
Agreed! If you're going to use a slow approach, plasma whip is a much better choice. I took that ouf ot the guide--I must have written it back before I was using enough plasma whip.

Her only two weakness are how high her Short Hop (SH) is and how light she is. She also suffers from the tether weakness, but her tethers are so good (the undisputed best in the game), her midair jump is AMAZING, her down+B is a recovery move that doesn't leave her helpless, and she is floaty enough so that it's actually difficult to successfully edge hog her.
I did say that her being light is a weakness. I also said she has a great recovery, but you do a lot better job of explaining why.

Her up+B is not easy to KO with for several reasons. If you do it while standing on the stage, ANYONE can just DI towards the stage and hit ground. Also, opponents can attack the spiking hitbox (fairly easily) if you try to do it from high above while off stage. If you jump off the stage to try and spike them, a good player will either avoid the attack or cancel it and get over to the ledge as fast as possible to edge hog while you are in lag from the up+B. If you've expended you're normal mid-air jump to space yourself properly, there is an even better chance you will get edge hogged or edge guarded by a player who knows simple edge guarding tactics.
You're probably right, I made it sound quite a bit easier than it actually is. I took this out of the guide.

From dash attack, you're best options afterwards are up-tilt or jab A. You use up-tilt if you successfully hit the opponent and they are in range, this pops them into the air right above you, making it VERY hard for most characters to DI away from up-air juggles. You use jab A or up-tilt if the opponent blocks, many people go for a shield grab, and since both moves are incredibly fast (Jab A comes out in 1 frame, up-tilt comes out in 2, her two fastest moves in the game for interrupting attacks), you will hit anyone that tried to shield grab you (provided you spaced properly). Jab A is safer because you can play shield pressure games with the first and second jab by jabbing once, then waiting. If they don't grab by the time the jab animation finishes, do another, and if it looks like they'll grab, do the 2nd jab in the sequence to hit them out. Don't go to the 2nd jab prematurely as that guarantees a shield grab for them. If the opponent is knocked too far away to with either of these moves, they're usually in range for a side+B, SH side+B, or another dash attack/dash up-smash.
Awesome! I'll try this more often. I didn't realize her up tilt was so fast, maybe just because it doesn't look as fast as her down tilt to me.

D-tilt is a good move to use when you need a bit of reach and you want to trip or pop someone up. F-tilt is a better move overall. D-tilt comes out 1 frame faster, but has more lag afterwards, and if it doesn't trip you need to immediately go into the air for juggling. F-tilt has shorter reach, but is better for combo setups because regardless of whether you trip the opponent or not, you can get a dash attack in, then up-tilt, then go into juggles, which results in something like 15-20% more damage than a d-tilt would and helps reduce stale moves penalties on up-air juggles.
You may be right, I'm going to try this.

Zamus' dash attack is her safest approach on the ground because it has a lot of reach, travels fast, and is active as long as her leg is in front of her (until the end of the move). This allows her a relatively safe approach, even against shielding opponents, and she can often times jab or up-tilt an opponent before they can do anything when spacing properly with the dash attack.
Gotta love her dash attack!

Zamus' neutral B is laggy and not a spammable projectile. It can stop ground approaches against opponents who aren't too careful, but it will ONLY set up to a side+B if it's charged, otherwise opponents can shield. Dash attacks or grabs are usually the best follow up to uncharged shots (mixing them up makes it more difficult for an opponent to react properly).
Agreed. I should mention this.

For the item tactics, just chucking the items mindlessly at your opponent is a horrible idea. Anyone with half a brain will shield them and they'll settle at his feet, allowing him to use them against you. In order to make the items useful, feint throws, throw them up in the air (by where you'll be) and throw attacks out from the safety of your own items while they bounce around you. If an opponent tries to approach you or attack you while your items are bouncing in front of you, he will at best tie with the item and cancel his attack (if you've spaced it properly, otherwise the best case is that he grabs it). Often times, this prevents your opponent not only from taking an offensive approach, but it severely limits their defensive approach as well, since the items make it difficult to punish yourself. As long as the items are bouncing, you are limiting your opponent's options.
Fair enough, against better players that's definitely true.

Your bit about blocking recovering characters... I'm completely lost why you used ROB as an example. While he may not be able to attack during his up+B without canceling it (the up+B DOES immediately cancel into attacks), he can use it indefinitely until the he runs out of boost (which is set to full whenever he touches ground/hangs on a ledge), so he could easily cancel it to perform an aerial attack (probably an up-air since it's fast) and then up+B onto the ledge. I don't really see him having problems recovering onto the stage in the first place because he's floaty and the up+B has an insane amount of boost (on some stages, he can star KO himself with it), he usually won't have to deal with getting edge hogged in the first place.
Well, I just meant Rob as an example of a character who doesn't have "a damaging tripple,"
but you're right in that he doesn't usually have a tough time recovering. Still though, if he only has just enough boost to reach the ledge, you'll usually get a kill, right?

Oh yeah, that "little bonus" for down+B isn't something unique to that move at all. If you press down or away while hanging on a ledge, it will make you drop from it. Pressing down+B makes you drop from the ledge and then performs the down+B. This technique has been commonly used in competitive play since SSB for the N64 and is often referred to as ledge dropping or ledge jumping (since you can midair jump for an instant aerial attack from ledges this way).
That's true, I guess it's not unique, just nice.

Thanks a ton man. Question: would you mind if I quoted you directly in my guide for a lot of this stuff? I mean, I doubt I'd be able to put it better than you did. Let me know whatever you'd be okay with me using, and I'll give you credit however you want.

Oh ph00tbag, could you explain again how you are using nair? Do you mean use it when you are behing your opponent?

---
PaulLuigi
http://rivermanmedia.com/
 

Crimsonjassic

Smash Rookie
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Dayumn, Garde... I too learned useful tidbits from your input. Thanks. :3

Lol, how much... time do you spend on the Smash boards...? Granted that's pretty sweet you "get paid" to post here. ;3
 

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
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Really? I've not seen many people who can smash Zamus out of it consistently. Like, are you saying it's even easy for slower up smashes to hit her out of it, or only characters that have fast up smashes? It also seems like it would depend somewhat on how high up you are.
Paul you don't need an smash attack to knock Zamus out of her dair, instead all you need is timing. Even though the dair has a decent amount of priority most ground attacks will beat it, also the only time the dair should be used is if your opponent just miss with a high risk move like a running grab or a smash attack.

Although the dair looks cool and does have it uses it should be very rarely used in actually combat.

Here a link to a thread in which I go into better detail on how the Dair can be used.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163873
 

Garde

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Messages
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SLO, CA
Paul, I'm glad you didn't take my critique as an offensive post. Also, the things I agreed on with you I wasn't trying to say you were wrong (like her being light is a weakness). :p

Most of it I've picked up from the boards or just from playing casuals with my friends I've been trying to train. Also, I've watched a fair share of Claw's and Ikki's stuff, so trying to figure out why they do certain things also helps, I'd recommend this form of learning for most of you because it's often easier to learn by seeing something (whether it was something good or bad that they did) done than reading about it and I don't pick everything up so you guys might find some really useful things that I didn't notice.

I'm glad some people found my descriptions for the different levels of skill amusing. :)

As for the fair, I don't fast fall it, so it might not auto cancel (I said it seems to auto cancel, but I haven't tested it). If it doesn't auto cancel, then it finishes the attack animation very shortly after the 2nd kick's hitbox comes out, because I've landed with no lag from it a lot.

Not sure about b-air, but against short characters (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Kirby, JPuff, etc.) that shield the attack, I get stuck in enough landing lag to get hit by them after dropping their shield. N-air seems to have very little lag, and so it can be useful for approaching people on the ground, though f-air seems to be safer when trying to beat attacks (and it also seems to set up better for follow ups at lower %). Maybe none of her moves auto cancel, maybe they all just finish relatively quickly so if you time them properly they'll finish before you land. I should really test this.

For the d-air, Tristan summed it up nicely. A lot of characters with decent speed up-smashes can time it properly, but characters that aren't capable of using smash attacks (and even those that can) can use other moves, like up-tilt or SH up-airs.

One use for the d-air that hasn't really been used a lot (though I find it useful from time to time) is jumping out of your shield and using it immediately. It's not too useful in most situations, but I find it to be useful for hitting some of the smaller characters that are in landing lag and it can often times set up into SH f-air for KOs. This is best used very sparingly as you can get punished for it if you miss or if someone baits it. Also, using d-air to cancel upward momentum should only be used when you're high up (like in the magnifying glass), otherwise any decent opponent will hit you out of the attack as you're descending very slowly.

One important thing to note about her up-tilt is while it comes out fast (meaning it's great for hitting opponents out attacks), it stays out for a while. Because it lasts the longest out of any of her tilts, if you miss it you can oftentimes be punished. A nice thing about it is if people try to dodge it, they'll usually get hit by it or you'll recover fast enough to do another one or jab at them.

To elaborate on the weakness issue about smash attacks... Alright, while her smashes don't KO themselves, she has a bunch of good KO options. When judging whether something is a weakness or not, we don't only go by KO potential, but how easy it is to land KO moves and how easy it is to get damage on characters and set up into KO moves. The fact that she doesn't have to rely on smash attacks for KO moves is a very good thing, imho. Smash attacks can only be used on the ground, but she has 1 reliable spike (which is a KO move regardless of whether it spikes or not), 3 aerials that can KO, her side+B (which can be used in the air or ground), and her f-smash (which is the worst of them). Now, all of those attacks are incredibly useful because she can be mobile during them (aside from her f-smash). Many characters rely solely on immobile KO moves, making it much more difficult to set up into them, or get them straight out with no set up. Because of this, I don't consider her smash attacks being poor KO moves a weakness, especially since d-smash and up-smash set up into combos that build damage very fast. Smash attacks often don't kill at low % anyway, so having something that's useful for building up the damage so she can KO with one of her many options is a strength, though it might be awkward to some who are used to smashing opponents for KOs. I hope this helps you understand one of Zamus' greatest strengths.

As for ROB, his recovery is similar to Zamus because his up+B gives an insane amount of boost. I have played him a fair amount, and I've never gotten myself in a situation that his midair jump and up+B haven't been able to get me back to the stage, aside from when I am just outright KOed (go flying off the screen and explode before you can try to recover).

Crimson, I'm on and off the boards while I'm at work. I apologize if any of my posts are ever poorly structured, as I'm often alt+tabbing between the projects I'm working on and actually typing up these posts. When you put it like that though, I do feel rather fortunate for getting paid to write this stuff. :p

I'd write more but I have to get back to work for now.
 
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