My Analysis of the Roster

[RageofNidhogg]

I've seen a lot of complaints about the roster recently, and I've also seen a lot of defenses of the roster. So I decided I would talk about the roster personally just to say what I have on my mind.

First I will address the people who are disappointed by the roster and who do not like it. I personally am one of these people though I will attempt to stay as objective as I can in this post.

I think one of the main reasons people are disappointed by this roster is because they feel betrayed. They feel that Sakurai hyped the game up so much and said it would be so grand and great and then he didn't include many of the characters we felt were a shoe-in. They feel betrayed because the size of the roster is much smaller than they would have been led to believe by comments from many different places and from the dojo updates. I myself feel this way a bit. Though I am able to get over it. 35 characters isn't really that few. I believe we have more added movesets from melee to brawl than from 64 to melee so it's really not as bad as many people seem to make it.

Personally I think these people have good reason to feel this way. I mean from Sakurai's comments about going overboard on the game it seems like there would be more than 35 characters. And for all the hype of the game and the statements about how it is the fans' game and it may be the last. People just expected a lot. It's not really their fault for expecting so much. It's just the way the game was presented. Things like the dojo really helped get our hopes up about the game, making us think it would be extremely great. Most games don't have a dojo, they don't get updates about the game. The hype for the game was huge which is probably why people feel betrayed when the roster is not just as huge.

The second thing that people seem most disappointed in is the distribution of the characters. This is personally why I am disappointed, as I am fine with 35 characters, just not the 35 characters we have. I feel that the number of characters in smash from each franchise should be based on their popularity which is definitely not the case with this roster. I'll start by going through each franchise starting with the Mario franchise.

The Mario franchise lost one character. Though he was a clone, this puts the Mario franchise down to the same number of characters as Zelda (less if you count Sheik). Now I love Zelda as much as the next guy, but Mario is much more popular and well known. Mario is the most well known videogame franchise period, I just don't see why they would lose a character.

I don't really see a problem with the Zelda franchise, unless Ganondorf is a clone. Pokemon seems fine to me as well, as does the Kirby Franchise. (Note I am going in order of number of playable characters)

Now the one franchise I have a big problem with is Star Fox. Star Fox only has five games, none of which have been that popular, and none of which have been known as good games since 64. And yet they have 3 characters. 3 characters that will most likely be similar to each other. They leave out the much more unique Krystal. Although I don't really like Krystal I think she would be a better choice for Brawl. I don't understand why they gave Star Fox 3 characters when they left much more popular franchises such as Metroid with 1 and Donkey Kong with 2. I understood in melee why Star Fox got an extra rep while Metroid stayed the same, because Falco would be an easy clone. But now with Brawl which is supposedly not rushed they give Star Fox 3 characters still leaving Samus alone. I just don't understand that. Espescially when Star Fox games have been on the decline and other games such as Metroid have had a Resurrection or are growing in popularity greatly like Fire Emblem.

I am fine with the Kirby series characters, and for the most part the DK series characters although I believe that DK deserves a third character more than Star Fox. I don't really have that much of a problem with the FE series except that I think that they deserve another character much more than Star Fox. I think Mother doesn't really deserve a second character but I'm not sure how popular it is in Japan so I can't really pass judgment on that. I have no problem with all of the franchises with 1 character except the Metroid Series.

I'll just say it now. The Metroid series deserves another character. It is one of the most popular Nintendo series and it recently has had a resurrection in the Prime games around the world. Yet instead of getting a Metroid character we have three characters from Star Fox. This just aggravates me because Star Fox is not anywhere near as popular as Metroid and its games are on the decline. And for those who say there are no characters from Metroid who could be in Brawl. Ridley would be a great character in Brawl. He's unique, he's a villain, and he wouldn't be that hard to make a moveset for. And don't tell me he's too big or too awkard. Bowser is huge in many of the Mario games usually ranging from 3 times Mario's size to about 10 times Mario's size in his 3D games. And the awkwardness of a character has little to do with his appearance in his games. It is more to do with the moveset and movement given to the character. Metroid just deserves a character so much more than Star Fox.

I forgot to mention the last character I have a problem with. This character would be the infamous R.O.B. Now I know Sakurai likes WTF characters but seriously... R.O.B.? He's a robot that stacks things... and very few people know who he is. I'm not even sure if most the people who have been around as long as he has know who he is. Now many people would say that this is similar to Game and Watch and Ice Climbers, but there is one big difference. Game and Watch and Ice Climbers are characters. They have flavor and personality. They have backstory (sort of) and very interesting movesets. R.O.B. on the other hand is just a generic robot. He's not a character and he has no backstory. Now if R.O.B. was just an awesome looking character this wouldn't be too much of a problem, but he just isn't. He's not cool-looking, he's not cute, and he's not a character. So what does he have going for him? I just think that Sakurai could have made so many better choices.

Now, to end my character discussion I will say that I think that many of the character choices of Sakurai just seem illogical. Simply, who is he trying to appeal to with this roster? Only big Star Fox fans will cheer at the inclusion of both Falco and Wolf, and seriously there just aren't that many big Star Fox fans. The lack of Ridley seems to be making many people mad already, and well... not very many people at all like R.O.B. Many times Sakurai has implied that he is going for the casual audience in this game. But if this is true, why not give us more popular characters? Why put R.O.B. in who casual players are sure not to know and are most likely not going to like. I mean I personally am not a casual player, but I know more than a few, and when I play with them, they play with the characters they like and recognize or think are cool. And seriously, I don't think very many people think R.O.B. is cool.

To end my negative viewpoint of this roster I will say this. Many people have said that we should be thankful for all the other things that have been put into Brawl. But I'm sure most of the people on these boards would sacrifice Target Smash, Multi-Man Brawl, Home-run Contest, all the extra music, and the Subspace emissary for a larger roster. Because in its essence Brawl is a multiplayer game in which people play as popular characters from Nintendo. Whether you look at it like a party game or a competitive fighter, the main drive of this game is it's multiplayer.

This is why I believe that many people are disappointed in the roster. It is at least why I feel that way.

In my next thread I will attempt to refute myself through some of the arguments in defense of the roster.

 

[RageofNidhogg]

Okay. Well I said I would attempt to defend the roster in my next post so I will attempt to do this as best as I can and attempt to keep this post as objective as possible.

First, we should be thankful that so much effort was put into the game and all its facets. 35 characters isn't really that few and if you add all the new movesets you get 17 assuming that at least one of the Star Fox pilots isn't a clone, Ganondorf isn't a clone, and Ness isn't a clone. This is a lot more than we got from 64 to melee.

Also Brawl just has so much more content than melee. It has the SSE which is like a game by itself, it has a slew of unlockable material, and it has so many different music choices, and most importantly it has Wi-Fi one of the most wanted features. Sakurai's team has worked hard on making the game as good as they can.

You shouldn't expect so much from the game. If we hadn't had the dojo which revealed characters like Sonic, and Dedede everyone would be happy about this roster. So why does this change because we had these things revealed?

Ugh... sorry to you pro-roster people but I can't really think of much else right now...

 

[Bendu]

To be fair, Star Fox 64 is one of the all time Nintendo masterpieces. It's definitely comparable to Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 from the same era. As a matter of fact, I'm sure there's a community of flying and arcade style game fans that would say that Star Fox 64 is far superior to any other 64 game, and perhaps any Nintendo game. (I would be one of those people.)

I'm simply glad that Krystal is (hopefully) not in. Because she originates from absoloutely terrible games and is a terrible character.

I'm not defending Star Fox's three reps. I think Fox and Falco should've been all it got. But I am saying that Krystal never should've gotten in, in my opinion, she originates from extremely bad games (unlike almost every other character on the roster) and like all Star Fox characters is somewhat uninspired.

Also, Metroid's not as popular as you think it is. Especially not in Japan. There's a reason it was basically a dead series for so long.

 

[Orsist]

Very well said and thought out.

I agree very much with what you stated about "I am fine with 35 characters, just not the 35 characters we have."

My largest problem with the roster is the terrible lack of female fighters. Only 3!!!! How many did we have in melee? 3!!!! We gained absolutely no new women! Female fighters in the roster are outnumbered almost 11 to 1! You can make an argument about Zamus but since you can't select her manually, she's more of a punishment for using your FS than anything else, as I view it.

Ashley? No.
Marina? No.
Lyn? Nope.
Jody Summer? Nu.
Midna? No.
KRYSTAL??? Nah, we ran out of slots. Lets just throw them in as ATs. We need room for a second Link.

I'll bet there are over 10 females from various franchises that would make more sense and create more variety than Toon Link, ROB, and Lucas combined. This is all taken into account that the last rumored slot isn't a female, but still, 8 to 1 ratio is still terrible.

 

[SolidSonic]

Very well said and thought out.

I agree very much with what you stated about "I am fine with 35 characters, just not the 35 characters we have."

My largest problem with the roster is the terrible lack of female fighters. Only 3!!!! How many did we have in melee? 3!!!! We gained absolutely no new women! Female fighters in the roster are outnumbered almost 11 to 1! You can make an argument about Zamus but since you can't select her manually, she's more of a punishment for using your FS than anything else, as I view it.

Ashley? No.
Marina? No.
Lyn? Nope.
Jody Summer? Nu.
Midna? No.
KRYSTAL??? Nah, we ran out of slots. Lets just throw them in as ATs. We need room for a second Link.

I'll bet there are over 10 females from various franchises that would make more sense and create more variety than Toon Link, ROB, and Lucas combined. This is all taken into account that the last rumored slot isn't a female, but still, 8 to 1 ratio is still terrible.

If I could award you some kind of "epic win" badge I would.

 

[Bendu]

Very well said and thought out.

I agree very much with what you stated about "I am fine with 35 characters, just not the 35 characters we have."

My largest problem with the roster is the terrible lack of female fighters. Only 3!!!! How many did we have in melee? 3!!!! We gained absolutely no new women! Female fighters in the roster are outnumbered almost 11 to 1! You can make an argument about Zamus but since you can't select her manually, she's more of a punishment for using your FS than anything else, as I view it.

Ashley? No.
Marina? No.
Lyn? Nope.
Jody Summer? Nu.
Midna? No.
KRYSTAL??? Nah, we ran out of slots. Lets just throw them in as ATs. We need room for a second Link.


I'll bet there are over 10 females from various franchises that would make more sense and create more variety than Toon Link, ROB, and Lucas combined. This is all taken into account that the last rumored slot isn't a female, but still, 8 to 1 ratio is still terrible.

I'm still confused about why everybody thinks female fighters are so important. Plus, I can give good reasons for all those characters you listed not being in Brawl.

Ashley? C'mon, you've gotta be kidding. A character who's only role is essentially to be in cutscenes in a mini-game collection? No WarioWare character besides Wario ever stood a chance. And Wario has been in a lot of games besides the Ware series anyway.

Marina? Makes much more sense than the rest of your list. I admit. But still, an unpopular, largely unknown character not as WTF-worthy and nostalgic as ROB.

Lyn? Lyn over Marth? Just because she's a female from the first American FE? How does that entitle her to a spot over Marth or Ike, who has arguably become the new FE mascot.

Jody Summer? Samurai Goroh trumps Jody Summer any day. If Goroh wasn't getting in, there was no way this nothing of a character was getting in.

Midna? Again, not AS bad. But Midna in imp form would only be put in if it was with Wolf Link (giving us technically three Links.) And the woman form of Minda is totally insignificant and never should've been considered.

Krystal? A character from three God-awful games. Who would ever want that?

 

[Artanisix]

I like ROB. The end.

 

[Shine-Fu]

Star Wolf is in because they are presumably trying to represent villains and heroes from every series that they can. Pokemon doesn't have a real villain, we have bowser, metaknight/dedede (I forgot which is the "villain") Ganondorf, etc.

Cutting Falco, the most memorable character (IMO) from StarFox64, and also a popular smasher in his own right? Yeah, not happening. Adding a villain, Star Wolf? One more franchise has both heroes and villains represented, and now StarFox needs no more reps. Makes sense to me.

Now if he summons a variant of some tank-like device for his final smash, then I'll take issue with him.

 

[Orsist]

I'm still confused about why everybody thinks female fighters are so important. Plus, I can give good reasons for all those characters you listed not being in Brawl.

Ashley? C'mon, you've gotta be kidding. A character who's only role is essentially to be in cutscenes in a mini-game collection? No WarioWare character besides Wario ever stood a chance. And Wario has been in a lot of games besides the Ware series anyway. Well, I have seen her tag many times in signatures and it wouldn't be the first time HAL would have to create an original moveset based on nothing.

Marina? Makes much more sense than the rest of your list. I admit. But still, an unpopular, largely unknown character not as WTF-worthy and nostalgic as ROB. Cpt Falcon was pretty much a nobody too until SSB and F-Zero X, and Marina already has moves!

Lyn? Lyn over Marth? Just because she's a female from the first American FE? How does that entitle her to a spot over Marth or Ike, who has arguably become the new FE mascot. I don't see why they can't include her as well.

Jody Summer? Samurai Goroh trumps Jody Summer any day. If Goroh wasn't getting in, there was no way this nothing of a character was getting in. Hey! Throw in Goroh as well! I don't care. The F-Zero series needs more representation anyways.

Midna? Again, not AS bad. But Midna in imp form would only be put in if it was with Wolf Link (giving us technically three Links.) And the woman form of Minda is totally insignificant and never should've been considered. Well, she WAS pretty much the main character of the whole TP plot. Link himself had barely any character development and the personality of a sock. I think it would be fun to have her as a floaty magic caster. Imagine the cool throws she could do with that hand coming out of her head!

Krystal? A character from three God-awful games. Who would ever want that? I thought adventures was decent. I figured she would make a good fighter because of her possible movesets and popularity. Besides, not all the Zelda/Mario games were perfect either.

We can go back and forth with this all you want, but I really think they should have expanded further. With all these new characters, you'd think we should have gotten at least 1 new female fighter. Hell, there are more clones than female fighters. That's just sad.

 

[IsmaR]

Krystal? A character from three God-awful games. Who would ever want that?

You've got to be kidding me T_T
She was in 3 bad(In your opinion) games, so was Mario...wait, how many Mario Partys were there? Seriously though, stop being biased.

Star Wolf is in because they are presumably trying to represent villains and heroes from every series that they can. Pokemon doesn't have a real villain, we have bowser, metaknight/dedede (I forgot which is the "villain") Ganondorf, etc.

Please, Sakurai crapped out on villains just as much as females. No villains from DK, Metroid, F-Zero, Mother, Pokemon(could've been Mewtwo), etc. And MK/Dedede weren't even the villains, they were just antagonists(Nightmare or Dark Matter were the "evil" characters).

Cutting Falco, the most memorable character (IMO) from StarFox64, and also a popular smasher in his own right? Yeah, not happening.

I admit, Falco was pretty popular, but did he have to come back as a clone(FS and eveything)?

Adding a villain, Star Wolf? One more franchise has both heroes and villains represented, and now StarFox needs no more reps. Makes sense to me.

Adding villains is not that important to Sakurai(See my above post).
And who sayswe won't get more SF reps?

Now if he summons a variant of some tank-like device for his final smash, then I'll take issue with him.

Seeing how Brawl is clonier than Melee, count on it T_T

 

[Matt Silver]

I'm pissed for all those reasons listed. Wolf is such a ****ing waste of space. Krystal > Wolf.
As for Metroid, I think without Ridley, they have nobody else to play as really. That's just the way it is.
Mario franchise... maybe could use another character - but who? If not Geno or Bowser Jr, who would it be? I'm also kinda despondent in the new franchises category. We got (Excluding Third-Parties), Pikmin, R.O.B., Wario and Kid Icarus... I think that's it.

The thing is though, all these reasons point to the roster being incomplete...

 

[Tomanator33]

I think having a cast of 35 in this game is bad at all, even if you count clones it takes a long time to make the move of each have there strengths and weaknesses. Also Metroid is popular in the USA and not so much in japan, also if you count Zelda's transformation as a cast member then Zames is too. Starfox I am still a big fan of and I agree having three clones is to many, now if they included, or if one is completely different then thats fine. We will see when we get our hands on the game. Also Rob will be recognized if for no other reason than Star Fox 64. ROB64 in that game was homage by Nintendo to R.O.B. So he will be recognized for that if nothing else.

 

[Chaosblade77]

To be fair, Star Fox 64 is one of the all time Nintendo masterpieces. It's definitely comparable to Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 from the same era. As a matter of fact, I'm sure there's a community of flying and arcade style game fans that would say that Star Fox 64 is far superior to any other 64 game, and perhaps any Nintendo game. (I would be one of those people.)

I'm simply glad that Krystal is (hopefully) not in. Because she originates from absoloutely terrible games and is a terrible character.

I'm not defending Star Fox's three reps. I think Fox and Falco should've been all it got. But I am saying that Krystal never should've gotten in, in my opinion, she originates from extremely bad games (unlike almost every other character on the roster) and like all Star Fox characters is somewhat uninspired.

Also, Metroid's not as popular as you think it is. Especially not in Japan. There's a reason it was basically a dead series for so long.

Super Metroid is also considered to be on the same level as Ocarina of Time and other such games, and tops just as many "greatest game of all time" lists as the Zelda game does. I'm afraid that argument doesn't work against Metroid, even though you weren't really trying to disagree.

Lyn? Lyn over Marth? Just because she's a female from the first American FE? How does that entitle her to a spot over Marth or Ike, who has arguably become the new FE mascot.

Considering Fire Emblem's popularity in Japan (extremely popular) and ever-growing popularity in the rest of the world since it's international release, it is easily worth a third character. Much more deserving than StarFox, and everyone wanted Krystal.

I think having a cast of 35 in this game is bad at all, even if you count clones it takes a long time to make the move of each have there strengths and weaknesses. Also Metroid is popular in the USA and not so much in japan, also if you count Zelda's transformation as a cast member then Zames is too.

Not true, actually. The difference between Sheik and Zamus is that Sheik can be used during an entire battle, and Zamus cannot. You can select Sheik from the roster and play the entire match as her, and she has her own Final Smash.

So far, the only way you can play as Zamus is to activate Samus's FS. If you are playing with items off, this means you cannot use her. Furthermore, you can't play a match with her anyway because you first have to get a Smash Ball. By then the match could easily be halfway over before you even get to your character. Finally, Zamus does not even have a real FS, all she does is get her suit back. It does no damage or anything, just turns her back into Samus.

We also received news saying that Zamus was a pretty poor character, did we not? If anything, it seems like she is just a "price you have to pay" to use Samus's Zero Laser, not a full character.

 

[Bendu]

You've got to be kidding me T_T
She was in 3 bad(In your opinion) games, so was Mario...wait, how many Mario Partys were there? Seriously though, stop being biased.

The difference though is that Krystal has ONLY been in horrible games. That's the problem. She's associated with mediocrity in the eyes of most Star Fox fans.

Edit: Also, any Mario Party is 10 times more fun than Star Fox Assault or Adventure was.

 

[Ketoe]

I like how everyone is giving up on oh thats all thier is?
Just wait.
Sakuria well not let us down. And to all you fans who are bi***h about it GROW UP! Enough said



Ketoe THe best Kirby Player Thier is

 

[silver777]

Whats with the I want more Female characters thing here???

I am a girl, no, I don't feel insulted because there is few female fighters in the game.

look at the videogames main characters, how many of them are females??

at the top of my head I only remember Samus and Lara Croft, WOW!! Thats alot!!

...Are getting what I am trying to say?? there is almost NO female iconic characters in videogames in general, Samus is the only REAL main character from her Games.

Zelda?? Peach?? they are not the main characters in their games, they, however, are iconic.



About the Wolf\Krystal deal:

People only wanted Krystal in the game just for her possible unique movest, and thats it.

EVERYWHERE I go it is the same thing:"I want Krystal beacuse she is female and will have a better moveset than Wolf" <<<thats the only thing thats going on for her.

She is not important, she is not iconic AND she is not popular as a StarFox character.

Wolf have all of these gonig for him, Krystal is just a supporter character.

So why include her instead of Wolf??? just because she will have a unique moveset???

...and she is a female?? give me a break!!

but there is one big difference. Game and Watch and Ice Climbers are characters. They have flavor and personality. They have backstory (sort of) and very interesting movesets. R.O.B. on the other hand is just a generic robot. He's not a character and he has no backstory.

Excuse me??? you are joking right???

what does G&W and Ice Climbers have ??? backstory??? PERSONALITY????

WTF??

They have nothing, no personality and backstory whatsoever.
G&A is not a character more than R.O.B.

Now if R.O.B. was just an awesome looking character this wouldn't be too much of a problem, but he just isn't. He's not cool-looking, he's not cute, and he's not a character. So what does he have going for him? I just think that Sakurai could have made so many better choices.

He is not appealing to you?? is that what you are mad about??

I don't find Sonic appealing at all, I think he and his games sucks, and I think Sakurai should have a better choice other than him, Is that a good reason?? No it isn't.

what does he have going for him?

R.O.B. was created to pass the NES off as a toy, without ROB the NES wouldn't have sold in America, the NES single-handedly revived the gaming industry after the crash.

So sit down, shut up and show our savior some respect!!

Take a second to think, past your NERD RAGE over R.O.B.

 

[Ketoe]

YOu tell them !

 

[Tank McCannon]

Opinions

They're A Wonderful Thing