[MU] Samus

[DistantGoat]

Hi, I'm brand new to smash boards, and was looking for advice on a particular Match-Up I'm having problems with.
I've been playing Smash Bros since the 64, but probably played Melee more than any other. My main was Link until Toon Link came around, but now seeing the upgrades to speed and attack changes for Link, I find myself picking him more than Toon Link.
I have a rival who mains Samus, whom he is very familiar with. You'd think with the great projectile protection Link has I'd have no problem, but I can only pull off a "For Glory" win about 10% of the time. Our battles turn into long bouts of roll dodging, shielding, and projectiles cancelling each other out. My biggest problem seems to be once I'm in the air I can't protect against Samus' Charge Beam. He always waits to use it just before or as I touch the ground, which I can't air dodge, block, or use Link's shield to protect. The 25% or so this causes that I can't avoid is usually why I end up losing the matches, because I end up in the air much more than I can get samus off the stage.
Does anyone have any tips or tricks to fighting against Samus as Link that maybe I'm overlooking?

 

[Jade_Rock55]

If your landing from hitstun tech.Use your shield and long sword reach.

 

[DistantGoat]

If your landing from hitstun tech.Use your shield and long sword reach.

My main issue is that during those few frames when I land, both of links hands touch the ground, and I cannot roll, spot dodge, block, or use his passive shield. Whether I'm landing in close range to get in a last minute Nair or landing far to use a projectile Samus can always get me with a full Charge Beam. How do I keep her from hitting me with it during my landing?

 

[Batu]

You can cancel the air dodge landing lag using your Zair before you land, and use shield or passive shield.

 

[DistantGoat]

You can cancel the air dodge landing lag using your Zair before you land, and use shield or passive shield.

I tried it in practice, it appears that it does remove most of the lag from my landings, thanks for the tip! I'll be putting this technique through its paces during my lunchbreak tomorrow. I'll let you know if it works for me, thanks again!

 

[Jade_Rock55]

You can tech roll.

 

[Batu]

I tried it in practice, it appears that it does remove most of the lag from my landings, thanks for the tip! I'll be putting this technique through its paces during my lunchbreak tomorrow. I'll let you know if it works for me, thanks again!

Pleasure to help you out, i'll be waiting, so let me know how that works.

 

[DistantGoat]

You can tech roll.

Im still learning all the jargon, what do you mean by tech roll?

 

[Jade_Rock55]

You tech(press shield after being hit toward the ground to do a handstand and your invincible)press left or right to roll instead of getting up in the same spot.

 

[DistantGoat]

You tech(press shield after being hit toward the ground to do a handstand and your invincible)press left or right to roll instead of getting up in the same spot.

Interesting... Ive never seen link do a handstand in smash bros. So it needs to be timed just before you hit the ground, and you can instant roll? Do I need to be hit or can this manuever be used just falling to the platform?

 

[LightLelouch89]

Link is the superior zoner by far, at least in my experience. With toss canceling, you should be able to come out on top in a projectile exchange if you're close enough. I'd also advise not rolling too much, which is what you and your friend seem to be doing. So many people make this mistake onlinr. It makes you easy to read. If your friend is rolling a lot, time accordingly and hit him with the Dsmash when he is within range. Punish punish punish roll spamming!

 

[DistantGoat]

Link is the superior zoner by far, at least in my experience. With toss.canceling you should be able to come out on top in a projectile exchange if you're close enough. I'd also advise not rolling too much, which is what you and your friend seem to be doing. So many people make this mistake onlinr. It makes you easy to read. If your friend is rolling a lot, time accordingly and hit him with the Dsmash when he is within range. Punish punish punish roll spamming!

You are probably right, there is a lot of rolling going on in our matches, the issue is most likely that were not being punished for rolling, so it gets out of hand lol. And links dsmash is the move I use the LEAST, now it seems I've found its purpose. I'll work this into our matches as well. As for my projectiles, in closer range I am usually punished for my boomerangs startup lag with a forward dash or a quick missile, and a full charge beam just swallows my arrows, should I be tossing bombs at her constantly? I've had a bit of success interrupting her charging with an arrow but my boomerang usually misses or I'm immediately punished for pressing ->B

 

[Zane the pure]

Also good to note is that Link's Z-air goes through missles.
As far as getting hit by charge shot when landing, it would be a good idea to mix up the timing of your landing. Be sure not to airdodge to the ground as it leaves you wide open, and if at all possible try to keep your double jump for when he fires the beam to jump over it. Practice fast-falling to throw of his timing and make sure not to press shield until you reach the ground lest you be caught in airdodge lag.

Other tips that might help is only throw boomerang from afar so you don't get punished. Keep bombs in hand when approaching as they provide Link with some of his best approach options. Learn the trajectories of your moves so you know where to follow up from, since the first hit of D-smash hits upwards and second hit goes outward plan accordingly. Try to abstain from too many arrows when the opponent is onstage because Link is at his best when he's not over-committed to any one thing.

 

[DistantGoat]

Also good to note is that Link's Z-air goes through missles.
As far as getting hit by charge shot when landing, it would be a good idea to mix up the timing of your landing. Be sure not to airdodge to the ground as it leaves you wide open, and if at all possible try to keep your double jump for when he fires the beam to jump over it. Practice fast-falling to throw of his timing and make sure not to press shield until you reach the ground lest you be caught in airdodge lag.

Other tips that might help is only throw boomerang from afar so you don't get punished. Keep bombs in hand when approaching as they provide Link with some of his best approach options. Learn the trajectories of your moves so you know where to follow up from, since the first hit of D-smash hits upwards and second hit goes outward plan accordingly. Try to abstain from too many arrows when the opponent is onstage because Link is at his best when he's not over-committed to any one thing.

Thanks for the tips! This board seems very responsive And helpful, I'm impressed so far! I definitely have some work to do with my bomb game, I use them a lot but there's a lot of techniques I never knew about. Now that I'm reading all this new information I've got a lot to catch up on. Thanks guys for your tips

 

[CostLow]

That's one thing you can count on from the Link mains. Most of us have been devoted underdogs since we started playing smash bros, but we always hold that he is one of the best characters in the game for spacing and mind games. We are very active on this board because we are used to needing all the help we can get.

 

[LightLelouch89]

That's one thing you can count on from the Link mains. Most of us have been devoted underdogs since we started playing smash bros, but we always hold that he is one of the best characters in the game for spacing and mind games. We are very active on this board because we are used to needing all the help we can get.

Link is not only the best character in the game for spacing and mind games. In the right hands, he's the best character in the game . . . period.

 

[DistantGoat]

Had a good rematch with Samus, the new techniques helped ALOT with dealing with the pressure. I was able to create a lot more seperation and control the platform more. It even helped with more time to pull bombs, which changed the dynamics of the whole fight. He caught on quick to quit rolling after a few punishes, lol. Thanks for the help guys! With some more practice I will definitely become a better Link player. I felt I had hit a ceiling recently and now I'm improving again.

 

[CostLow]

Look at that. Not only did Zane help you get better, but you helped your buddy too. Good stuff all around!

 

[Batu]

That is all that matters! Good buddies playing and getting better at the same time... Good stuff really. xD

 

[koloblican11763]

This thread makes me want to cry it's so beautiful :'3

 

[Technicalslayer]

I'm going to resurrect this thread since I'm having the same problem as the OP. I have a friend who mains two high tiers: Captain Falcon and Cloud, which I have no problem with dealing with; our wins are usually split about 50/50, with me winning a few more matches than him here and there, so I don't think it's just a skill difference. His Samus absolutely destroys me though, almost every match against it I lose, with no clue on how to properly counter-play.

Things that I know cause me a problem:

• Samus' diagonal/upward combo: e.g. Uair, uair, up-B. What's the proper DI to get out of this?
• Fair combos: He usually manages to only get one on me at a time on stage, but offstage is when it's scary due to being able to frame trap airdodge easily.
  
• Charge Shot: Bombs nullify this and I almost always have one in hand, but it's when I pull one or use some other projectile that he gets one off. What's the best strategy for bomb pulls?
• I can't forward throw bomb slide consistently: I don't know when it's going to go up or in front of me, which is clearly problematic. Tips on getting it every time?
• Hylian Shield blocks while walking, but once I start doing that, he can just start charging or rush me down for a grab.

Stages:
Platforms help with avoiding projectiles and Link's own spam can hit below him or at a downward angle, but Samus gets more from them in my opinion due to her vertical combo.
Smashville seems like a decent middle ground, but I've gotten stuck on the platform, leading to some serious pain, if not death.
Battlefield and Dreamland are death traps if i get stuck above Samus, and I don't know if the benefit of sharking is truly worth it or not.
I honestly don't know how Delfino would be against her.
Duck Hunt's tree only helps Samus charge up.
Lylat is just a bad stage for Link overall. (And maybe Samus?)
Honestly, Omega stages seem the best option with bomb camping.

Strategies:

Offensive play: Preventing charges is great, but if I get punished, it's two fairs or a couple of uairs into an up-B. Out spacing Samus' grab is tough to do, and Link doesn't have many close range attacks that are safe on shield.

Defensive play: This is going to go against what I said in the 'Stages' section, but with bomb camping on the opposite edge, Samus gets the opportunity to charge, and Link's projectiles are easily powershielded from a charge, making this a bad option. Once fully charged, she can approach and go for a zair or grab.

Mix of Offensive and Defensive play: Is playing footsies with her the best option? I could keep a bomb in hand and poke with arrows and boomerangs until in range of zair to poke shield and drop a bomb to guard from Charge Shot.


Am I just bad and overestimating Samus' grab and ability to get Charge Shot confirms? Or is this MU seriously in her favor?
Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bigbomb2]

Not sure what I can add here since I'll only played a very few good Samus', but this is a MU where your Dthrow will rarely work as she can jump out easy. Also, if you an bait a grab and she misses, you can dole out a nasty smash because of how laggy it is. Bombs are going to be your best friend here; just try and predict when he thinks the best time for a shot would be. Think like a samus player there. If you predict it when he's on the ground you can totally have your shield take it. You can maybe even bait something by walking towards him and tricking him to grab or attack, then punish.
Also Lylat is a surprisingly good Link stage. The tilting can mess Samus up but your projectiles all are easier to work with on slopes.

 

[Technicalslayer]

I guess Lylat would only be messing with a fully charged arrow, which I shouldn't be using too many of anyway. My biggest problem with it is getting pineapple'd when recovering. I'll definitely try to bring him to that stage. He seems to have my playing style and habits memorized, so bombs are tough to pull. Should I try to hold on to each one as long as I can, or should I always roll/z-drop them and pull another out?

 

[Bigbomb2]

For, I mix it up. While chucking bombs constant and dropping them as traps can pressure them, sometimes holding one for a while can cause them to have a reaction which you can capitalize on. You can try and condition him based on if you throw or not. For example, Marios I face I can coax to use their cape more, but suddenly I can just hold the bomb, bait the cape, and punish.