MU Discussion: The Terrible Marth

[TheRealSkid]

Okay, so this is my real question. How does a person deal with a very differently playing (to be nice) marth main? Imagine an fsmash/side b spammer that coordinates their attacks to hit me when I react. It's a huge problem (and frankly a sad and terrible thing. Imagine a smash 4 pro losing to a for glory spammer or Hax losing to a scrub in pools that does this. Now I bet you're sad.) I'm able to beat players at my level but for some reason I KEEP LOSING in VERY ONE-SIDED MATCHES. How can I deal with this type of player?

 

[Stride]

Respect them. Pay attention and think about what they're doing specifically rather than abstracting it (especially if you're just going to think of it as "scrubby" instead of something practical), and work out how to beat that.

My guess is that you're approaching too often or too predictably and letting him throw out those moves without him having to worry enough about being punished for it (since you don't bait them enough), in which case you should dash-dance more and shield more. Maybe you're letting yourself get stuck in the corner where you don't have room to move around his attacks enough. Or maybe you're jumping too much so you can't protect yourself (with crouch-cancel, shield, dash-dance, etc.). Without a video or a more detailed description the advice you can get will only be general or based on guesses as to what your specific problems are.

 

[Life]

Recently I had the opportunity to fourstock a yung Fox main entirely through fsmash. Having beaten him soundly several times in the past, he knew quite well that I knew what I was doing. Was he embarrassed? You bet. Is he a substantially better player for it? I think so.

Assume your opponent actually knows what they're doing. There is no such thing as a tactic that works on good players that scrubs can beat.

Imagine for a second that YOU are the Marth main spamming fsmash to beat some random baddie. What is that Marth doing wrong that lets you hit them with fsmash so much?

 

[Synnett]

Had the same problem with a friend in a friendly Pokemon match. For example, I had a Seaking against his Flareon, and I would guess he'd switch out, but in fact he would stay and spam Flare Blitz. Those are the "clueless" kind of players, very annoying to play... but yea, I continued trying to read his moves but he'd do the exact same thing.

Same thing happens in Melee. Don't try to read him, he's dumb, he will always do the same predictable thing. Your spacing and reaction speed is most likely superior, punish his lack of movement and predictability. Hopefully it will force him to try other options too, and build up his mindgame. And be patient, the most important thing.

 

[EnIgma24]

I had to deal with a marth player who always charged neutral b and would forward smash immediatly afterward so i guess it's the same thing, just don't be flustred you know what he is doing and therefore there is absolutely no reason to get hit unless you are impatient and let your emotion play instead of your mind. There is no secret to beat scruby technique just wait for the window in which you can punish and show him how melee doesn't forgive this type of tactic.

 

[Dr. Bread]

Okay, so this is my real question. How does a person deal with a very differently playing (to be nice) marth main? Imagine an fsmash/side b spammer that coordinates their attacks to hit me when I react. It's a huge problem (and frankly a sad and terrible thing. Imagine a smash 4 pro losing to a for glory spammer or Hax losing to a scrub in pools that does this. Now I bet you're sad.) I'm able to beat players at my level but for some reason I KEEP LOSING in VERY ONE-SIDED MATCHES. How can I deal with this type of player?

stay away from the f-smash and use movement to stop them from taking the perfect positioning against you. make sure you punish religiously or else nobody will actually respect you enough to be afraid to throw risky moves out.

 

[TheRealSkid]

Good to know, thanks guys. Is there an "optimal" fsmash punish on shield? WDin to grab or dtilt or something?

 

[xXadevs2000Xx]

Good to know, thanks guys. Is there an "optimal" fsmash punish on shield? WDin to grab or dtilt or something?

Just WD in grab then uthrow.

 

[Sutekh]

Lets be clear, what you have described is more of a problem within yourself as than it is anything the opponent is doing wrong. If the Marth is able to beat you by mindlessly forward smashing, he did exactly what he should have done. You'll run into these types of Foxes and Falcos too, but they all do it for the same reason. Players that mindless rush them will consistently run into their attacks, so that is the most rewarding strategy at their level. You've become accustom to playing against more cerebral players, but you still have to be aware of how to deal with players that haven't mastered their movement yet. Against a fsmash heavy Marth, WD OoS grab is guaranteed as long as it wasn't a tipper (if i'm not mistaken, shield stun lasts too long with tippers). Just imagine a bubble around Marth that is the extent of his sword's reach, and DO NOT enter that bubble as long as he has fsmash available to him. Pretty much everything in Melee has a rock-paper-scissors aspect to it, you just need to learn what your options are and what beats what your opponent is doing. Shield grab dash attacks, spot dodge if he's fishing for grabs, grab him if he's sitting in shield a lot. Just notice what your opponent is doing to get in on you and focus on countering it, you can't always keep one strategy throughout the entire set.

 

[Kopaka]

Okay, so this is my real question. How does a person deal with a very differently playing (to be nice) marth main? Imagine an fsmash/side b spammer that coordinates their attacks to hit me when I react. It's a huge problem (and frankly a sad and terrible thing. Imagine a smash 4 pro losing to a for glory spammer or Hax losing to a scrub in pools that does this. Now I bet you're sad.) I'm able to beat players at my level but for some reason I KEEP LOSING in VERY ONE-SIDED MATCHES. How can I deal with this type of player?

Tl:d: Play to their level. Simplify yourself. You don't need to out-think opponents who aren't trying to out-think you.

or just go read http://smashboards.com/threads/the-four-aspects-of-melee.94597/ lol since this thread reminded me of the section wobbles wrote on literally this subject

 

[AirFair]

lol if they are going to be that predictable might as well make good use of it.

 

[YimS]

The key to beating this kind of mindless opponent is to bait out these things. Dash dance and wave dashes usually do the trick. And from your profile it says you are also a marth main so I would try to get in with a grab and toss him in the air. Basically: Bait out, punish

 

[aqualad33]

Forward b is usually pretty safe (though usually inferior to dtilt). Fsmash though is VERY punishable in neutral. If he wiffs then you can just fsmash back for free. If you spot dodge it you get a free grab. If you can wd oos you get a free grab which can be converted into fthrow fsmash if he does not know how to di it. You can also just run up and dtilt him since it is WAY faster than fsmash and forward b. Run forward wd back then wd in dtilt works. Avoid aerials as much as possible especially against a spammer. Being in the air makes your movement predictable. Also being on a platform above them makes you an easy tipper target.

Oh also if he is being predictably aggressive just use counter. I use it a lot if I see a spacy going completely ham but it works on pretty much everyone that just goes carelessly aggro.