Moves you should never use as Fox

[Quillion]

Or at least shouldn't use very often. I ask so that I can try to train myself from not using them.

Should I refrain from using his Chun-li kick and his F-air? It seems that both of them are very bad.

 

[Jim Morrison]

F-air has its uses. The only move is actually Chun-li kick. It's the only move where I have never thought "oh this could be an okay option". And I've really tried. The rest has usages, some situational.

 

[shigg]

His side b is pretty useless aside from recovering and then jumping back onto the stage

 

[Quillion]

F-air has its uses.

But are they rare, incredibly situational uses?

I did say "Or at least shouldn't use very often".

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I've seen silent wolf use the fair to some good use before, fair definitely isn't useless, but it's not that good

and I guess by chun-li kick you mean F-tilt... which I kind of think is fox's worst move

 

[Quillion]

I've seen silent wolf use the fair to some good use before, fair definitely isn't useless, but it's not that good

and I guess by chun-li kick you mean F-tilt... which I kind of think is fox's worst move

By Chun-li kick I mean this:

It's usually called Lightning Kick, but Zelda already has a move in Smash by that name already.

 

[SamSun]

Jab 3 is probably the only move you shouldn't ever use, really.

Fair is good any time that you would usually do a nair, but need to hit a little higher or more in front of yourself

 

[MudkipUniverse]

@ Quillion oh yeah forgot jab 3 LOL

 

[Quillion]

Jab 3 is probably the only move you shouldn't ever use, really.

Fair is good any time that you would usually do a nair, but need to hit a little higher or more in front of yourself

But its duration is way to long to use offstage (I'm trying to get myself to avoid SDing offstage), and I can only reliably hit the 7% initial hit.

 

[7upjawa]

NEVER use rapid jabs ever. Fair is situational, and helps extend some combos. You should probably also never use phantasm for attacking, its really just a mixup for recovery or stage placement.

 

[SamSun]

But its duration is way to long to use offstage (I'm trying to get myself to avoid SDing offstage), and I can only reliably hit the 7% initial hit.

I only mean for use in a shffl, or something like a platform drop > fair.

 

[Kaeon]

The first hit of fair has solid disjoint and enough knockback to setup mid-high percent range combos on fast fallers like Fox, Falco, and Falcon. DJ Nintendo frequently combos fairs into upsmash against other members of the cast as well, so it most certainly has its uses.

Nair is pretty dope though, I wouldn't say fair is very closely related.

Rapid jabs (kicks) are useless.

Side b onto stage isn't foolproof by any means. Being able to ledgedash effectively can give that option some hope, but you can also get absolutely crushed for doing it.

 

[Sheepomg]

Or at least shouldn't use very often. I ask so that I can try to train myself from not using them.

Should I refrain from using his Chun-li kick and his F-air? It seems that both of them are very bad.

Poor question. No move falls under the category "never use." The problem with your question is that its too general. The better question would be: In what situation would such a move be the best choice? Or, what move is the best choice in this situation?

Even better: How do i develop my understanding such that i can decide for myself when a move is the best choice?

The answer to this is play, make mistakes and realize you made them, watch videos and pick up on small things here and there, and be open to new things... Unconventional thought. Simply memorizing some answer in this forum is not going to help your play. Just practice and experiment until you find out what works.

 

[Vorde]

Poor question. No move falls under the category "never use." The problem with your question is that its too general. The better question would be: In what situation would such a move be the best choice? Or, what move is the best choice in this situation?

Even better: How do i develop my understanding such that i can decide for myself when a move is the best choice?

The answer to this is play, make mistakes and realize you made them, watch videos and pick up on small things here and there, and be open to new things... Unconventional thought. Simply memorizing some answer in this forum is not going to help your play. Just practice and experiment until you find out what works.

Except for Jab 3... never use that.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

i heard @Silent Wolf talking about how rapid jab works on bowser

 

[krazyzyko]

Ground lasers I'd say.

 

[The Soap]

Ground lasers I'd say.

Rest punish.

 

[krazyzyko]

Rest punish.

Damn that Fox and his useful move set.

 

[bearsfan092]

I've seen silent wolf use the fair to some good use before, fair definitely isn't useless, but it's not that good

and I guess by chun-li kick you mean F-tilt... which I kind of think is fox's worst move

Ftilt is a god awful move to use in neutral imo, but there are some great corner pressure things (i.e. most of PP's uses as Falco) that you can do to get a stray poke if the opponent is on their back foot. If you hit, knocks em off stage. On block you need to space it really well to avoid shieldgrab/WD OoS punishes (if only we had Falco's ftilt...), but pulled off successfully it's a good low commitment way of poking without losing corner positioning.

 

[Jummy]

Actually rapid jab is the only way to not die at extremely high percents after you Amsah tech.

If you're at like 150% and Amsah tech a Knee, even after the tech the leftover momentum will be so high that you will fly off stage. What you can do to prevent this is spam rapid jab. Doing rapid jab will keep on stage and not dying while the momentum dies off.

So yeah even Fox's most useless move has a use lol.

 

[GodOfGhosts]

Actually rapid jab is the only way to not die at extremely high percents after you Amsah tech.

If you're at like 150% and Amsah tech a Knee, even after the tech the leftover momentum will be so high that you will fly off stage. What you can do to prevent this is spam rapid jab. Doing rapid jab will keep on stage and not dying while the momentum dies off.

So yeah even Fox's most useless move has a use lol.

So after Amsah teching a trollout after like 100, this crappy move will save from from getting yanked offstage like a puppet?

 

[MudkipUniverse]

AHEM

"amsah"

scrub

 

[GodOfGhosts]

AHEM

"amsah"

scrub

I'm on mobile. My keyboard is trash lol

 

[Oskurito]

Fox is such a good character, that any move can be very useful depending on the situation. Obviously some are more useful because of the wide variety of situations they can be effective on, and thus, are prone to be used frequently. I'm talking about moves such as shine, up smash, up air, uptilt, nair and dair. But the rest of them can be used in many ways for comboing or follow ups (most notably, soft bair/upair, down tilt), and yes, even things like side b or up b can be used, but that's up to the player.

The rapid jab is possible the worst move

 

[Thor]

So after Amsah teching a trollout after like 100, this crappy move will save from from getting yanked offstage like a puppet?

Out of curiosity, can one simply buffer rolls toward center stage repeatedly, or does that not work? I have no idea if it does, I'm just asking.

Rapid jabs on someone's shield are funny in teams 2v1s, since your teammate can do other stuff on the other side. Not as effective as actual shield pressure, but way easier to do and it might make them mad, and mad opponents usually don't play as well [useful for the next game then].

It's less practical in 1v1, but I have seen it used kind of like Sheik's chain, as a ridiculous edgeguard vs Ganondorf [though they can at least SDI through and I think also outright avoid it].

 

[GodOfGhosts]

Out of curiosity, can one simply buffer rolls toward center stage repeatedly, or does that not work? I have no idea if it does, I'm just asking.

Rapid jabs on someone's shield are funny in teams 2v1s, since your teammate can do other stuff on the other side. Not as effective as actual shield pressure, but way easier to do and it might make them mad, and mad opponents usually don't play as well [useful for the next game then].

It's less practical in 1v1, but I have seen it used kind of like Sheik's chain, as a ridiculous edgeguard vs Ganondorf [though they can at least SDI through and I think also outright avoid it].

Rapid jabs also work as infinites in 2v1 situations if your teammate has grabbed your opponent

 

[Thor]

Rapid jabs also work as infinites in 2v1 situations if your teammate has grabbed your opponent

Oh c'mon this is the Fox boards. Multishine them [or at least drillshine them some].

[I'm joking, this is another use of it.]

 

[AscendantAquila]

There is a reason why Fox is such a good character. But realistically, rapid jabs is probably Fox's least useful move or most situational.

 

[krazyzyko]

Out of curiosity, can one simply buffer rolls toward center stage repeatedly, or does that not work? I have no idea if it does, I'm just asking.

Hold R/L then hold the c stick t where you want to roll frame perfect.

 

[SuperShus]

Or at least shouldn't use very often. I ask so that I can try to train myself from not using them.

No move falls under the category "never use."
Even better: How do i develop my understanding such that i can decide for myself when a move is the best choice?

One thing that really helped me get better was trying to get excited about things to do, instead of trying to avoid doing bad things.

For instance when I threw fast fallers up onto a platform, I was always trying to read them to get a uair follow up. Then I heard you could uair to cover tech in place and no tech, then still have time to dash jc grab on reaction to dodge roll left or right. After a few days I was able to do it, because I every time I threw someone up on the platform and I went for something else, I'd go 'no! that's where I should've done that thing I learned!' eventually I would just do it when I recognized the situation.

Just, whenever you see a top fox do something, if you can determine why/when they're doing it, also do it yourself!
For instance I saw ppmd's falco use ftilt to cover sideb to the ledge and then he could react to up b with a bair or something. I wondered if I could apply it to fox and now I do it.

tl;dr there are no bad moves, there are just moves that are really good in some situations and some that are bad in those situations.