Work In Progress Moves that don't work correctly

[Trifroze]

I'm not sure why all multi-hit moves don't just have set knockback on the hits leading up to the final hit. Would fix so many moves.



- Back air: Has a deadzone between the tip of her foot and her body. It's supposed to be a sourspot, sometimes it works but the large majority of the time it doesn't, and it's near impossible on some characters. Presumably it's because the hitbox is on z-axis.

- Up B: Doesn't link properly if you don't connect with the first hit / if you're in rage / depending on the opposing character. Characters like Ike and Roy avoid the last hit literally more than 3/4 of the time no matter what the scenario otherwise is. You also experience massive landing lag (RCO) if you get hit after starting this and then land normally (RCO lag has been removed from some other characters but not all).

- Side B: Characters pop out of this before the last hit, especially if you connect with it in the air.

- Up tilt: Doesn't link into the second hit properly if the opponent is too close to you and/or at a high %.

- Jab: Almost all characters pop out of this after the second hit if you hit with it close to the opponent.

- Neutral air: Visuals indicate that the hitbox is much lower than where it actually is, doesn't hit crouching characters for instance even though the whip goes through them.

- Paralyzer: Can go through the opponent if they're right in front of you (not sure if intentional/normal)

- Grab: Can go through the opponent if they're right in front of you (not sure if intentional/normal)

 

[LancerStaff]

Up Air almost never connects at high percents
Up Tilt has issues connecting it's two hits, even at low percents
Dash Attack whiffs at point-blank

Dash attacks like that can't match completely or they'd be like frame 2... Unless you want some awkward as heck animation to go with it.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'm not sure why all multi-hit moves don't just have set knockback on the hits leading up to the final hit. Would fix so many moves.

They do, the problems lie with Rage and the fact that the only fixed knockback they seem to have is weight-based. So using moves with that sort of knockback has drastically different results when used on Bowser or Jigglypuff. Knockback also happens to be the one thing that decides how much hitstun the target suffers. In other words, deciding whether a followup can connect without them shielding, double jumping, or air dodging. Normal Base and growth statistics are far more consistent, but hard to program in a way that stops moves from being used in unintended ways. Suddenly every multihit aerial can jab lock/prattack/soft spike, and every multihit ground move just stops working once they reach a certain percent.

 

[Trifroze]

Most multi-hits do have set knockback on the initial hits, but moves like ZSS' up tilt and fair don't whereas similar two hit moves like Fox's uair and Ryu's uair do. I simply wish they all worked reliably instead of just some. Maybe rage is eventually removed, after all they've already changed VI/DI mechanics and hitstun/hitlag mechanics and removed invulnerability frames from dodges so it isn't impossible. Rage adds jank like what ended the MLG GFs (that's actually a consistent thing) and make combos inconsistent. I used to be for it but I'd rather see it off at this point.

I suppose the next best thing to do is to just increase hitboxes on multi-hits so they connect better that way, and I guess that's what this topic tries to ultimately bring into attention.

 

[LancerStaff]

Most multi-hits do have set knockback on the initial hits, but moves like ZSS' up tilt and fair don't whereas similar two hit moves like Fox's uair and Ryu's uair do. I simply wish they all worked reliably instead of just some. Maybe rage is eventually removed, after all they've already changed VI/DI mechanics and hitstun/hitlag mechanics and removed invulnerability frames from dodges so it isn't impossible. Rage adds jank like what ended the MLG GFs (that's actually a consistent thing) and make combos inconsistent. I used to be for it but I'd rather see it off at this point.

I suppose the next best thing to do is to just increase hitboxes on multi-hits so they connect better that way, and I guess that's what this topic tries to ultimately bring into attention.

If they removed rage then they'd need to rebalance the entire game around the change... It's just too fundamental a mechanic to just up and remove like they (partially) did with VI.

 

[Jerodak]

Gonna add on a few more for King Koopa.

Fortress: At high rage, or if the opponent is at high percents, it's possible to tech out of it before the final hit.

Dsmash: The hits can fail to trap the opponent properly if you hit with the max range disjoint, especially at higher percents/rage.

With rage/percent, even closer hits can lead to the opponent falling out of it.

Down b: Characters can D.I the grounded first hit to avoid the second hit, then punish your cooldown. This especially tends to happen at max range or point blank range. It can also happen if you hit the opponent while they were moving, the momentum can carry them out of the way.