Most underdeveloped characters in the current meta?

[TheGoodGuava]

Who in your opinion are the most underdeveloped/overlooked viable characters?
IMO
1. Mewtwo
2. Lucas
3. Mii Brawler
4. Yoshi
5. Greninja

 

[Shady Shaymin]

#5 peach
#4 greninja
#3 yoshi
#2 wario
#1 olimar

 

[TAN-MAN]

1. Peach
2. Greninja
3. Kirby
4. Megaman
5. Yoshi

Peach is #1. Others in no particular order.

 

[DaDavid]

Not sure I know enough about all characters to get a list of 5, but definitely agree with Greninja, Lucas, and Mewtwo.

 

[Tizio Random]

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No particular order

 

[Jenna Zant]

Peach, Greninja, Olimar, Miis, Yoshi.

 

[Suzukipot]

In no particular order:

#5: Wario
#4: PacMan
#3: Miis
#2: Lucas
#1: Greninja.

 

[Shady Shaymin]

I wish more top players would help to develop the meta. I know that's asking a lot of someone who's next meal might depend on a match, but in the long run it'd be good for the community. Imagine if zero picked up some of the characters mentioned here. Esam's yoshi has done some cool things.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

I don't think Shulk is as developed as the rest of the cast, sure characters like Bowser Jr, Peach, olimar, the miis, and Lucas are looked less than shulk, but Shulk still has potential.

 

[Phan7om]

Im curious as to what defines a character as underrated for you guys/most people. Just potential you think they have? Unexpected results? etc?

 

[Shady Shaymin]

Olimar, to me, is almost never talked about in any discussion whatsoever. Like, if you sifted through the seventy something pages in the 4BR discussion, I am confident that Olimar is mentioned less times than wii fit, g&w or even the f'ing miis.

Like, what even is Olimar? Olimar is the only fighter I think I've never actually faced once. Maybe once on For Glory. I know literally nothing about Olimar. Does anyone outside of the Olimar board know anything about Olimar? I doubt it.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Olimar, to me, is almost never talked about in any discussion whatsoever. Like, if you sifted through the seventy something pages in the 4BR discussion, I am confident that Olimar is mentioned less times than wii fit, g&w or even the f'ing miis.

Like, what even is Olimar? Olimar is the only fighter I think I've never actually faced once. Maybe once on For Glory. I know literally nothing about Olimar. Does anyone outside of the Olimar board know anything about Olimar? I doubt it.

I play olimar as a secondary, he's pretty scary when used right.
He has good rep in Florida apperantly

 

[Deleted member]

I play olimar as a secondary, he's pretty scary when used right.
He has good rep in Florida apperantly

Yeah, @Myran is a well-known Olimar player here in Florida.

 

[dskank]

i don't think peach is underdeveloped so much as she is over hyped. if you look hard you will find plenty of high level ride or die peach mains, the only thing about her thats really underdeveloped is how to fight against peach

 

[FlackoFever]

1. Shulk
2. Mewtwo
3. Peach
4. Lucas
5. Bowser Jr. or duck hunt

No particular order here, just my honest opinion on the matter. Should also mention that Shulk is 1 of my 3 mains (Shulk, Ryu, Dark Pit). No bias but I believe Shulk to be extremely underrated and underrepresented, I just feel like character has so much going for him (yeah I know his frame data is ehhhhh lol) but if you're creative enough you can make the most ominous MU's work in your favor. Remember no bias though lol... As far as the Peach subject goes I'd definitely have to agree with dskank.

 

[TAN-MAN]

Im curious as to what defines a character as underrated for you guys/most people. Just potential you think they have? Unexpected results? etc?

To me it is just characters that, if they were represented maybe by higher level players or their meta was matured as much as certain other characters then they would be more highly rated by the community as a whole. I know Peach is already widely considered a character with great potential, but that's just the character I see with the most potential to break into one of the higher spots on the tier list with the right amount of time and development.

 

[Wintermelon43]

1.
Then, in no real order, (Shulk and Mega are tied)

Also fit into this cateogry

 

[LRodC]

These guys.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

I think Lucas is the most underdeveloped character with the highest potential out of all, he has footstool setups, 3 kill throws, one combo throw that can kill, heals reeeally fast and nice spacing.

 

[Ludwigvongamer (Mobtink)]

I really think that ALL of the Miis are severely undeveloped. Nobody plays them, solely because they are such a limited character. Limiting the Miis to only Mid-weight is like banning an entire character. What is this, the Brawl Unity rule set?

YOU NEVER DO THAT.

As for the other two on my top five, I'd have to go with Mewtwo and Mega Man. Both are fantastic characters (Especially with Mewtwo's new buffs) And Mega Man takes too much effort I guess... but he's so good!

I don't know. I feel like in our endless quest to make tournament money or be a "bottom tier hero" we've completely forgotten about the perfectly good mid and low tiers.

 

[Deleted member]

Miis totally. Also, Kirby has a well developed meta, but still must be explored. I don't think he should be here. (BIAS)

 

[CHIEf]

He may not one of the most underdeveloped, but I have yet to see a tournament Falco that uses the character properly along with being a good player. Keitaro is decent, but Falco keeps getting buffs and exploration with almost no change in tournament results. Pretty sad.

 

[GeflGabe]

The Miis and Oimar. Those two or four are the ones I mainly think need more time put into them. There is obviously more characters that need improvement. I only put 2 / 4 characters because I haven't really looked into what each character can do right now.

 

[Megamang]

I feel olimar might be limited by his variety of pikmin... They are designed to do the thing they are good at, so it makes him predictable. Its not like theres some weird strat where the guy with the white pikmin smashes you with it, lol. But he of course has room to improve strings, setups, adv, disadvantage, neutral, and movement. But I don't think there is huge hidden potential there. Maybe im wrong.

I think megaman has a lot of potential to get a lot stronger in the meta. Right now, not many people can utilize SGTF perfectly. If you can land these, they are a guaranteed utilt off a sawblade which is a CRAZY early kill, like almost as strong as shoryuken kills (its megaman's shoryuken). This tied to such a heavy character alone can be devastating. But he also has down and diagonal metal blade tosses, which also confirm into kills. He has lots of tools that can interact interestingly. Did you know he can pick up the metal blade from the ground when he has leaf shield out? Also, when he has a metal blade in hand and a leaf shield circling him, using Down B will throw the shield while A will throw the metal blade, AND it can still be Z dropped? Air shooter can combo for 40% early on, and can kill later, and eats dodges? He has a frame 4 bair that kills and has massive disjoint? He has lots of tools, they are just hard to make work. It does suck he doesn't have a combo escaping nair, and no spacing f-tilt... but pellets serve both of these roles really well anyways.

I think he can learn to use these tools, and even more pellets, better and better to the point where he will be a problem MU for a few more characters than recognize it right now.

For the rest, anyone with larger Perfect Pivots has a lot of opportunities to expand their combo games, and their movement in neutral.

I think as the game goes on, characters with more tools in advantage will see a rise in the meta. As we get better and better at chases and punishing defensive options/ledge options, advantage will mean more and more since getting there can win you games quickly. Also, neutral will be super important because people will make less unprovoked mistakes.

Sorry if this is off topic, just some ramblings that come to mind from this Topic. I also agree with people that Lucas can get a lot better. Also, bayonetta just oozes combo potential getting stronger and stronger, as well as traps and 5050 situations that we don't consider now. We may think of most 5050s as an airdodge situation/juggle, but bayonetta can force them in other ways. Like when you are diagonal down and she is facing away, there could be a situation where attacking leads to you getting baired, while anything else leads to you getting divekicked.

 

[Caryslan]

I think Lucina has tons of untapped potential, but is forever held back by the stigma of a community that looks at her as "Easy-Mode Marth" which leads people to ignore her.

What they tend to miss is that Lucina shines in matchups where Marth(and even Roy) have trouble hitting the sweetspots on their blades. Marth and Roy are more powerful then her in terms of KOing early, but that power comes with a double edge of being weaker if an opponent understands their sweet spots and avoids either the tip of Marth's blade or the center of Roy's blade.

I have played Lucina for awhile and I can get better results with her then I can with Marth or Roy. I stick with her because of the fact that she does not have a sweetspot on her blade.

Killing early with tippers is awesome and all, but sometimes Lucina's balanced blade can make certain matchups easier.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Lucina has tons of untapped potential, but is forever held back by the stigma of a community that looks at her as "Easy-Mode Marth" which leads people to ignore her.

What they tend to miss is that Lucina shines in matchups where Marth(and even Roy) have trouble hitting the sweetspots on their blades. Marth and Roy are more powerful then her in terms of KOing early, but that power comes with a double edge of being weaker if an opponent understands their sweet spots and avoids either the tip of Marth's blade or the center of Roy's blade.

I have played Lucina for awhile and I can get better results with her then I can with Marth or Roy. I stick with her because of the fact that she does not have a sweetspot on her blade.

Killing early with tippers is awesome and all, but sometimes Lucina's balanced blade can make certain matchups easier.

In what MUs does Lucina perform better in than Marth or Roy? I'm very curious to hear how you feel about this.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

In what MUs does Lucina perform better in than Marth or Roy? I'm very curious to hear how you feel about this.

Coming from a past marth main there aren't really any that she's particularly better at but the matchups are a lot less stressful and relaxed so you can be more consistent, I used to pull her out versus sonic

 

[Caryslan]

In what MUs does Lucina perform better in than Marth or Roy? I'm very curious to hear how you feel about this.

Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since I mostly play online(I can't really go to tournaments right now) But I have seen the most success with Lucina when it comes to playing rushdown characters like Shiek, Captain Falcon, Sonic, and other characters like that.

I have tried Marth and Roy against those characters and I can't find the success that I can with Lucina. I know mileage varies between players, but she is the character I pick when I'm fighting either rushdown characters or characters or are more combo-oriented like Ryu and Bayonetta.

Coming from a past marth main there aren't really any that she's particularly better at but the matchups are a lot less stressful and relaxed so you can be more consistent, I used to pull her out versus sonic

Sonic is the main reason why I started to play as her(besides the fact that I like the game she's from)

I also play Ganondorf and Ike, and Sonic is not a fun matchup in the least for either one.

It is less stressful for the simple fact that you never have to worry about landing a sweetspot. On the other side, it also makes things slightly harder for your oppoent, since they can't simply control their space in the sourspot of your blade.

 

[TheGoodGuava]

Sonic is the main reason why I started to play as her(besides the fact that I like the game she's from)

I also play Ganondorf and Ike, and Sonic is not a fun matchup in the least for either one.

It is less stressful for the simple fact that you never have to worry about landing a sweetspot. On the other side, it also makes things slightly harder for your oppoent, since they can't simply control their space in the sourspot of your blade.

Yeah, it just makes the match a lot more enjoyable and tbh enjoying the match>winning the match

 

[wizrad]

1. Mii Brawler
2. Mii Gunner
3. Mii Swordfighter
~ large gap ~
4. Mewtwo
5. Lucas

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mewtwo has quite some representation as of late.. I find it hard to put him here with the likes of Mew^2 scoring so greatly with him. However, I think he has potential to grow even more. So I'll rate my underdeveloped tier list with a bias towards characters I think hold more potential than their current representation.

1: - Obviously, with recent buffs, an amazing character. Very strong, lot's of combos, awesome projectile, good recovery, and light weight might be a blessing in disguise seeing he profits from rage so much.
2: - Like Mewtwo, recent buffs made him far more powerful. He's not the Marth from Melee, or even Brawl, but he's still a strong character with amazing spacing game, enourmous range, and a tipper that kills extremely early.
3: - Nobody really plays him. NAKAT once did nicely with him, now Lucas has faded into obscurity. He's got strong combo game, and good utility with projectiles. He's heavily overshadowed by the stronger, and far easier to use , so that also doesn't work in his favor.
4: - Totally absent from the metagame. Abadango used him once, probably dropped him, and nobody simply cares for the character due to the weird changes in moveset. He's still viable tho I'd say.
5: - Once called the 'King of Heavy Weights' because DK and Bowser where still bad before their buff patches, but since Customs died out, nobody cares for their old pal from the Pokémon RBY days anymore. Yes, Dragon Rush is amazing and without it Charizard is a total different character almost, but he literally has had no representation ever.

Honorable mentoins:

 

[Fatmanonice]

1. - Was getting results even before her summer buffs and back when she was widely claimed to be bottom ten. Miserably unpopular despite being used to upset some of the best SSB4 players in the game right now. A character that has all the tools to at least be mid tier.
2. - Another character perpetually plagued with few reps, made even worse when Abadango dropped the character. Would probably have his buttcheeks firmly planted in high tier if more than three actually used him in tournaments.
3. - Most people have the mentality of "why play Lucas when you can just play Ness?" Was given a double digit amount of buffs since last summer but most people don't want to take a chance with him. Recently lost one of his few high level players (Pink Fresh) so this character will likely stay in obscurity until another champion comes along.

4. - A highly technical character that I still believe could eventually wind up becoming the equivalent of Brawl Diddy. This character's rewards for high tech skill players is absolutely immense (very high rewards for item drops, footstools, glide tosses, and jab locks) but, once again, few people have been willing to take the plunge.
5. - A character that it seems people are just now waking up to the potential of but the momentum could be easily squashed like Olimar's was. In a fairly similar boat as Lucas and Megaman, highly technical but why use him when you could just go with Fox or Sheik?

 

[CaP_Omega]

#3 - Small Brawler combos are nuts and their edge games have a lot of potential, should definitely be legal (at least with special setup 2,2,2,2), especially considering we already have so many crazy characters.
#2 - Roy's spread of close range sweetspots and his unordinarily fast air speed as a swordsman have lead him to be underestimated in the spacing department. It is actually very easy to out-poke other characters with him. He is also a very pressure based character; once you've gotten one good poke in, you've practically earned some sweetspot hits.
#1 - With knowledge of mixups, spacing, KB and footstool/jab locks, Greninja becomes the sacred one. Not only do many of his auto combos go on for ages, but some even mark your opponent for death. With this sort of power at his disposal, Greninja's punish game is endless in theory.

 

[Ninja101]

I am a Greninja main and I can say that I completely agree with all of these lists.









*looks at tier list*

 

[MarMarTheGreat]

Shulk,Greninja,Duck Hunt,Bayonetta,Peach

 

[Runic_SSB]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[jet56]

this guy. the fact that he is bottom 10 on tier list, when he has a top 5 neutral game means he is beyond underdeveloped. seriously, you can count on one hand the number of people who have mastered their tech that goes with this character (ppivots, dash dancing, jump canceling, etc.). ironically, of those mac mains, almost none of them use the tech on a regular enough basis, because they don't know what to do with it. Sol, the best mac main in the world, has said he didn't implement PP utilts, until he found out about its incredible application from J.A.P.A.N. maybe a little bias, but he is beyond underdeveloped.

 

[Nobie]

The answer HAS to be Mii Fighters.

Look at every matchup chart posted by a top player over the past week. Their assessments of Miis all basically amount to "Idunno lol."

It's one thing to say that Mii Fighters have been hampered by 1111, but it's not like people have even developed the 1111 meta! Also, as much as we like to think of characters being developed by the top players, the players at the bottom of the competitive scene are also important. The mere fact that For Glory doesn't support Miis is a huge blow to their user base, as I suspect many people move onto tournaments from FG.

 

[C0rvus]

Definitely jumps out at me. Yes, he's new, so this goes without saying. But he's already taking names and wrecking faces, and he's far from optimized. Watching Dabuz's Shots Fired match analysis made me realize how few openings this character has when played right, and how quickly he can take stocks and bring games back. What a monster. He could honestly end up being the best character in the game.

Our only top level player dropped him. He's got unwieldy neutral, but it's there, and his punish and juggle game is very impressive. I think a high-pressure style Bowser Jr. could really make some waves. Too bad his meta is now at a snail's pace.

I really like this guy, but I cannot efficiently play him. He's got a LOT of tech, and some nasty setups and traps. But I have yet to see any players implement all of them, so he's got places to go. Having such a bad Sheik MU definitely gets in the way of things.

You can't even really play these characters at all. No one knows the matchups, no one cares it seems. I think Gunner in particular has some promise; look at their neutral, and the techniques they have. And that's with the low rep they have.

Has a lot going for him; strong defensive zoning with zair and the very safe PK Fire, the best tether grab in the game with impeccably good reward, long combo potential, strong offstage presence with a far stronger recovery than his buddy. He just lacks top level rep, and is pretty unoptimized at the moment. He could be borderline high tier.

Shoutouts to Roy, that guy people hyped up, and then he dropped from existence. Is he better than Marth (if he was, he certainly isn't now)? He's got speed, and a pretty good advantaged state. I'd love to see some more of him, but I suppose Cloud's mere existence overshadows the rest of the swordies in the cast.

 

[Djmarcus44]

The answer HAS to be Mii Fighters.

Look at every matchup chart posted by a top player over the past week. Their assessments of Miis all basically amount to "Idunno lol."

It's one thing to say that Mii Fighters have been hampered by 1111, but it's not like people have even developed the 1111 meta! Also, as much as we like to think of characters being developed by the top players, the players at the bottom of the competitive scene are also important. The mere fact that For Glory doesn't support Miis is a huge blow to their user base, as I suspect many people move onto tournaments from FG.

I agree with your statement, but there has been some effort put into development of 1111 gunner. Since ROM had a good showing at Smash@SCU and a solid showing at Genesis 3, the development of the 1111 gunner metagame has been trending in the positive direction.