More LL set-ups

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I credit Pure and who ever came up with the DDD LL set-up with the inspiration to do this. I found we can apply the relatively same LL set-up to be used against Wolf. The DDD LL set-up involved CG to a certain percent, FH Dair, FF and proceed to LL DDD. The LL set-up on Wolf is pretty much the same, but I substitute the FD Dair for a SH Dair.

Note: I used Training Mode for all of the testing. Simply because trying to test out stuff is easier, and I could check for who else could be forced into a landing animation from a Dthrow which is the key to making this work.

To perform:

1) CG so final Dthrow is started at ~30%+
2) Peform the SH Dair, but time it so that it will hit wolf during is in the "landing" animation.
3) After contact simply FF and start lasering away.

Note: This was all done with training mode, so percents might be a bit off. Also, Wolf CAN escape the LL by simply teching or by performing a move between the time he is hit by the Dair and the first chance he gets to tech. But the window is narrow enough that human error might cause them to not do anything, thus making this LL set-up viable for usage.



MORE!!!!

Upon further testing this same exact set-up can be used against Shiek, but only difference is how soon you can SH Dair, which is like 2 percent.

It also works on Ganon. But it works at slightly higher percents than wolf.

The same can be done against Fox, but at around the same percent as Shiek. Any later though and Fox simply falls into an animation which he would be able to tech the ground, not land on it. If I recall, Fox cannot be LLed for very long, so I think the best you can do here is a forced get-up with a couple of lasers and do something from there.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

What about snake? I think he has a similar falling speed.

Also, we should test (I said this before already) if uthrow (at low percentages) sets up for a platform laserlock against fastfallers.

Also Dthrow and Fthrow against all characters at all percentages for a platform laserlock.


It's an infinite for crying out loud

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

What about snake? I think he has a similar falling speed.

Also, we should test (I said this before already) if uthrow (at low percentages) sets up for a platform laserlock against fastfallers.

Also Dthrow and Fthrow against all characters at all percentages for a platform laserlock.


It's an infinite for crying out loud

For one, all of the throws onto a platform I feel are really DI situated an really unlikely to work. Upthrow to platform might show some promise. Dthrow to Fthrow are too easily DIed out of and how do they even reach a platform?


Sort of hard to test on one's own. I didn't consider Snake viable considering he can get out of our normal CG in the air simply by pulling a grenade out. This means he isn't forced into a landing lag by the hitstun of the Dair.

 

[Notra]

this seems amazing. my wii is broken so cant try it out now. but if u could get a video up. so i could do it at my next brawl fest that'd be awesome.

Heres weight and Fall speed. if itll help find better testing chars. wish i could help
(not my list. From a post by MRSilver)

weight(from mario)

Bowser 1.111
Donkey Kong 1.091
Snake 1.076
Dedede 1.071
Charizard 1.061
Ganondorf 1.056
Samus 1.051
Yoshi 1.045
Wario 1.045
R.O.B. 1.040
Ike 1.035
Captain Falcon 1.030
Link 1.030
Wolf 1.020
Lucario 1.010
Ivysaur 1.010
Mario 1
Luigi 0.995
Sonic 0.985
Ness 0.980
Pit 0.980
Lucas 0.980
Diddy Kong 0.975
Toon Link 0.970
Ice Climber 0.970
Peach 0.960
Marth 0.944
Sheik 0.935
Zelda 0.935
Falco 0.919
Olimar 0.919
Zero Suit Samus 0.914
Fox 0.910
Pikachu 0.904
Meta Knight 0.904
Kirby 0.899
Squirtle 0.884
Mr. Game & Watch 0.884
Jigglypuff 0.849

Fallign Speed(From Mario)

Jigglypuff -0.78
Samus -0.54
Olimar -0.47
Kirby -0.44
Lucario -0.40
Peach -0.37
Luigi -0.32
R.O.B. -0.32
Zelda -0.26
Marth -0.25
Toon Link -0.16
Ivysaur -0.16
Ness -0.12
Yoshi -0.05
Pit 0.00
Mario 0
Mr. Game & Watch 0.01
Ice Climber 0.07
Snake 0.16
Donkey Kong 0.20
Ike 0.28
Dedede 0.29
Wario 0.30
Charizard 0.33
Sonic 0.33
Pikachu 0.40
Zero Suit Samus 0.44
Link 0.46
Lucas 0.49
Diddy Kong 0.55
Meta Knight 0.68
Bowser 0.91
Ganondorf 0.91
Captain Falcon 0.92
Squirtle 1.05
Falco 1.23
Wolf 1.84
Sheik 2.21
Fox 3.41

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

For one, all of the throws onto a platform I feel are really DI situated an really unlikely to work. Upthrow to platform might show some promise. Dthrow to Fthrow are too easily DIed out of and how do they even reach a platform?


Sort of hard to test on one's own. I didn't consider Snake viable considering he can get out of our normal CG in the air simply by pulling a grenade out. This means he isn't forced into a landing lag by the hitstun of the Dair.

I'll see what I can do myself.

Most of the time our throws are DI'd upwards, especially after the chaingrab.

Imagine grabbing till 45% then he DI's upwards, leading him into laying on the platform. perfect setup.

But I'll see what I can do...

 

[J4pu]

you can 0-death wolf, why attempt a non-guaranteed LL?
/negative nancy

 

[Notra]

you can 0-death wolf, why attempt a non-guaranteed LL?
/negative nancy

we r falco. if theres a risk to make it that more epic and flashy well take it. For example. Falco would choose to beat someoen w/ chopsticks over a katana. for simple show off ness. In other words LL is more flashy. ill take it

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@Xonar: I found that Uthrow doesn't work on even the fastest faller, and heaviest characters. At least on a platform such as BF, where it would see most usage. People can jump out before hitting the platform. And that is an uthrow at the lowest percent 0%. So not very practical. It might be something that could be applied to another stage such as a CP.

Nor would I say that Dthrow or Fthrow are very good options to try to get a platform lock. Too DI dependent. Bthrow on the other hand, seems useful. It's the right trajectory and can work from a CG, which means one can actually postition themselves for the platform lock attempt.

I'm looking into possbilities for a Bthrow.

Edit: Yes, I managed to get it to work on bowser somewhat. On BF if you are underneath one platform facing towards the nearest edge and bthrow bowser at 27% he will land on the platfrom in hitstun, and cannot escape except for a tech. You can follow up with a Laser. I cannot seem to perform the platform lock though. But at least he is stuck in a forced get-up which we could try to see what that does. Although, it might be DIable. I'll look into that later.

Edit2:Yeah, it's DIable. Just about any direction will ruin the knockback. So much for that idea. <_<

Edit3:But since I'm bored, I'll press on. Works on ganon as well. I think I suck at trying to platform lock or something. At least I could lock him locker than I could against Bowser. Guess I'll look at the people we cannot CG to death to make this a bit more practical damage racker, maybe even a kill combo that is only escapeable by teching the fall on the platform or the DI in the Bthrow.

Edit4: XD Works on DDD too, same percent, and I believe can be platform locked, (I'm getting better at this, I can chain it many times in a row now :D ). I find it funny that DDD is getting more and more owned by Falco's CG attempts. On BF we can do the whole splating thing to a laserlock on the edge of a stage. We can do the CG to 40% > SH/FH Dair them > FF into LL just about anywhere on the stage. Now we can do an actual kill combo on them if they don't DI, or tech. And the Falco does the platform lock correctly. The whole bottom of the stage is accessable for CG shenanigens xD

you can 0-death wolf, why attempt a non-guaranteed LL?
/negative nancy

For one, we cannot always get the CG to the end of the stage anyway. When that fails you simple to the next best thing, damage racker. Simply another option to look at.

 

[MurdaMoe]

these are chars u should be spiking

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

0-death wolf? You can't spike him after chaingrab.

They can DI down and away to avoid it.

 

[Jon?]

0-death on Wolf works all the time. You just need him at the correct percent prior to the Dair spike.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

0-death on Wolf works all the time. You just need him at the correct percent prior to the Dair spike.

45?

10wuts

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

And how often do I have to explain it that you cannot always time what percent you actually manage to grab them. At times you might be too far away for it to even work to get the CG > Spike;death. The next best thing is to get as much damage as humanly possible.

Besides, any LL set-up is easily avoidable. Airdodging, attacks, etc. All get out of the LL set-up. The final one is teching. The only decent LL set-up that seems viable is the splatting, but that is extremely character dependent. The timing for that is so strict that teching is pretty much the only way to escape it. Bthrow is a decent set-up for a platform lock given no DI and no tech.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

And how often do I have to explain it that you cannot always time what percent you actually manage to grab them. At times you might be too far away for it to even work to get the CG > Spike;death. The next best thing is to get as much damage as humanly possible.

Pummels.

Nuffsaid.