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Mlg rule settings discussion

r3d d09

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Read the title. I will copy and paste the rules in here when I'm not on a itouch.

This thread is for lain.

Yadda yadda you know what to do.

How does it affect us and what will we do.



END
 

Prawn

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i think we should start off the conversation by talking about the new neutrals and actually see if they can help us in matchups.


I.E. i dont think castle siege is that bad vs mk IMO.
 

Hylian

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I counterpick CS against MK sometimes o.O. haha.

First transformation is great for walling under the platforms and the ice blocks come back to you if you're on the bottom. Second transformation is great for single climber if they are at 0 or just in general since you can dthrow chain MK to 65% you can just take him off the walkoff without a chance of messing up if you get the grab, otherwise just blizzard wall near the edge and they can't get around you. Third transformation you can do cool things with IB's when the stage is tilting and it's sort of like FD otherwise.
 

r3d d09

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Ic mains need to practice cg'Ing on different terrains now. Little bumps. Slants and other stuff can make you lose a grab if you don't know what to do
 

Smoom77

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I've been really curious about CS. We should talk about it more.

Also, chaingrabbing on different terrains is the same timing but it's mentally confusing. This is where it becomes important to know your timing because you can't rely on what you see.
 

ch33s3

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I'm going for Lylat/YI/PS1 (pretty much same as ever) every game 1, though halberd against some characters is actually fantastic. Pictochat is pretty good for the ICs, which I think has been previously explored, it's like FD with campy parts. Our opponent's CP will still be unwinnable if you go 100% ICs. For reasons Swordgard and I discussed with a lot of you, choosing Green Greens is a great idea for your CP against a lot of characters as well. PS2 is winnable, but the air stage kills you if you upb, and the electric part tests your stage control very hard.
 

B0NK

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Ic mains need to practice cg'Ing on different terrains now. Little bumps. Slants and other stuff can make you lose a grab if you don't know what to do
In my experience, slants and bumps don't make much of a difference for alt CGs. It does have a big impact on hobbling because your opponent will hit the ground earlier. As for the new neutral stages:

PS1: This stage doesn't effect us too much, and isn't really a bad stage for us. The opponent will some transformations to stay away. Some transformations give us ice block tricks. High ceiling needs to be accounted for when deciding what percentage to charge the U-smash during CGs. Also expect air camping from some MK players, taking advantage of some transformations

Castle Siege: Depends on the match-up really, Hylian explained each transformation well.

Delfino: The worst "neutral" imo for ICs. Nothing really helps us on this stage and some transformations really hurt us. Take advantage of the FD like transformation and whenever the stage is flying around. In the MK match-up expect MK to be under the stage often.

Halberd: Depending on the match-up, this stage isn't bad at all. The low ceiling allow ICs U-smash, U-air, and Up-b to kill earlier. The middle platform acts in the same way it does for YI. The slants also help our ice blocks traps. Unfortunately MK can attack us from under the stage on this one too, and you never want Snake to take you here since he will enjoy the low ceiling more then ICs and our ice block tricks are less effective when he has grenades.


And to briefly talk about counterpicks, whats worse about this stage list is that the opponent has Brinstar, Rainbow, and Norfair to choose from. Norfair is the worst imo for IC's and should be what are banned is used on (of course depending on the opponent, if your playing a snake main, halberd may be a better choice....but for MK, Wario, and even TLink.... just use your own intuition).

Brinstar take advantage of the kill zones, the can allow ICs to kill much earlier then usual. Also learn to use the lava to predict where your opponent is going to go and when your opponent is going to attempt to approach.

Rainbow just takes getting used too to play on. I personally prefer playing on brinstar because I just don't like the constantly moving stage. The boat doesn't hurt IC's, there are actually parts of it that help us. As the stage moves, take advantage of IC's u-air and b-air to put damage on the opponent as they are jumping ahead. Sometimes staying ahead of the stage and your opponent is the most advantage positions. Most grabs will happen on the boat or the last part of the stage. On the last part, take advantage of the low ceiling for early kills as well as the platforms to poke your u-airs through.

Pictochat: Basically a second FD with some tricks and a higher ceiling. Banned in my region so I can't talk about it much =/

Green Greens: Don't have any experience on this stage, can't remember the last time it was legal here.

PS2: Same as green greens, haven't played much on this stage. These tranformations hurt ICs much more then PS1 (well PS1 doesn't really hurt us). Wind and Electric transformation really limit ICs. The ice transformation will probably be the most useful for ICs, may get us easier grabs as the opponent is sliding. But I need to play on this stage more myself.

Frigate: Don't like this stage, I expect MKs and probably other aerial base characters to go here. But this stage isn't horrible for ICs, the second transformation allows ice block tricks like on halberd and the first one just makes our recovery more predictable/punishable on one side.


Of course, for any of the counterpicks that you aren't comfortable on, you can just use a secondary that performs well on them (like MK >.>) I don't see ICs winning much on any of the opponents counterpicks =(
 

Prawn

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discussing the CPs right now is pointless IMO.

We really REALLY should be focusing on what we're going to do vs top tiers in terms of striking neutrals, because ICs NEED to win game 1 with this stagelist(if you're planning on going all ICs)
 

B0NK

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discussing the CPs right now is pointless IMO.

We really REALLY should be focusing on what we're going to do vs top tiers in terms of striking neutrals, because ICs NEED to win game 1 with this stagelist(if you're planning on going all ICs)
While I don't believe it's pointless (since winning on the CP is important too), but I see what your saying.

After experiencing this stage list in tourney this past weekend, I definitely had problems with it. I believe that it was my lack of experience with the stages I was striked to (I'm more used to neutrals). So I believe the best advice is to really practice on these stages, and not just in friendlies but in tourney to see what has to be worked on. Push for the TO's in your area to use the MLG stagelist if they haven't already.

As for where you will most likely strike to, I found often the two choices being PS1 and Castle Siege. You may sometimes get an occasional neutral but more often then not my opponent would strike all the usual neutrals.

I would strike Delfino, Halberd, Lylat/Castle Siege (Depending on preference the two left will likely be Lylat, Castle Siege, and PS1...or hope a standard neutral was left >.>)

Really it is just personal preference of the player, so I suggest practicing on all the stages to get idea what your comfortable on. Just set all the MLG stages to random when playing with someone in friendlies.
 

ch33s3

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The ruleset is COMPLETELY FINE and has no effect on us. You strike down to any of the following: Lylat, Yoshi's, PS1. This is no different than any other tournament. We get gayed game 2, still no different than any other tournament. Game 3 we get our choice of our usual CPs, and some nice extra options like PS2 and Green Greens. Instead of choosing between banning RC or Brinstar, now you choose between RC, Brinstar, and Norfair (I recommend banning RC, if you know how to camp on Norfair, you'll be fine. There is no difference from any other ruleset. You'll even find striking to some of the wonky neutrals (Halberd) to be a great idea sometimes.
 

r3d d09

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When I started playing ssbb. I had all the neutrals and CPs selected for random and random stage everytime. So I probably feel more comfortable on the stages than most ics
 

toobusytocare

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I counterpick CS against MK sometimes o.O. haha.

First transformation is great for walling under the platforms and the ice blocks come back to you if you're on the bottom. Second transformation is great for single climber if they are at 0 or just in general since you can dthrow chain MK to 65% you can just take him off the walkoff without a chance of messing up if you get the grab, otherwise just blizzard wall near the edge and they can't get around you. Third transformation you can do cool things with IB's when the stage is tilting and it's sort of like FD otherwise.
i dont think many MKs will try to so anything to you during the 2nd transformation anyways.

it no edges to gimp you off of, they'll probably just sit up in those platforms until the 3rd transformation (which is fine by me because the 2nd transformation is my least favorite.

I'm going for Lylat/YI/PS1 (pretty much same as ever) every game 1, though halberd against some characters is actually fantastic. Pictochat is pretty good for the ICs, which I think has been previously explored, it's like FD with campy parts. Our opponent's CP will still be unwinnable if you go 100% ICs. For reasons Swordgard and I discussed with a lot of you, choosing Green Greens is a great idea for your CP against a lot of characters as well. PS2 is winnable, but the air stage kills you if you upb, and the electric part tests your stage control very hard.
Me and felix think of Picto as FD with toys haha :p
 

FrozenHobo

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you want an award or something?
read my mind.

I'm just saying to play friendlies with only the maps you don't know or don't like. So you know how to play better on the maps
you need to realize that most people do that. you didn't just make up this perfect strategy to learn how to play on every stage. most people have neutrals/cps set to random for the exact same reason, and most people have been doing it longer than you. in short, nobody cares, keep it to yourself.
 

r3d d09

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Frozen poop got mad.

I'm just saying.

Also. There are stages that are better for other characters. But its better to play on maps that you're comfortable with.

People getting butt hurt make me lol.
 
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