MK Community General Guide

[busken]

Shamefully stolen from CHOMPY

General Meta Knight Guide Moveset Discussion

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-= D-Tilt =-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Discuss the viability of Meta Knight's down tilt

Things to discuss:

1) Rate the move 1-5

2) Discuss any combos that utilize this move
3) Is it a viable spacing option? Is it safe on shield?
4) Discuss appropriate times to use the move?
5) Share any techs/methods that can boost the potential of the move.
​

 

[SSBSteve]

I started main'ing Meta Knight and have played just under 400 For Glory matches with him. I will list what I think through my experiences playing with him and try to contribute as much as I can. Please correct me if I'm wrong in any given area.


1) What I Rate

4 / 5

+ Attack comes out and ends fast, dealing 5% per hit
+ 25% chance to trip, mixed feelings on this one.
+ 1 Hit unlike most of his other attacks, can do other attacks right after.
+ Jab Lock
- Short range for a sword character(In my opinion)


2) Potential Combos

These following should work from 0% but unsure where the cut off point is.
D-Tilt is generally a pretty useful attack to imitate a combo with thanks to its low knockback and speed.

~ D-Tilt > D-Tilt > Grab > Anything
~ D-Tilt > Grab (Guaranteed If Tripped I think) Recommended
~ D-Tilt > Dash attack Highly Recommended
~ D-Tilt > F-Tilt (all 3 hits) Recommended
~ D-Tilt > D-Tilt > F-Tilt (last 2 hits of this will hit)
~ D-Tilt > Down Smash


3) Spacing

I think this is a suitable spacing option as you may attack quick and jump / move / attack right after. It pushes a shielded person back a little which should just about prevent you from any out of shield attacks or grabs. D-Tilt and F-Tilt are the fastest and furthest stationary attacks.

The attack edges you forward the most minuscule amount. (useless but interesting)


4) When To Use / Techs / Methods

= Attacking a shielded opponent.
Because this is a fast attack, you can attack in quick bursts. Most times the opponent will shield your D-Tilt and release it to attack/grab. At this point your second D-Tilt will hit them giving you the option to combo into another attack.

= When you cant commit to attacks with lag / openings.
Arial attacks can be grabbed, smash attacks can be punished and you might activate F-tilt's full combo. This attack gives you options and options is nice.

= Hit and run
As mentioned above, added with this move's low lag. D-Tilt is great during the period where both you and your opponent are running and dodging everywhere.

= Distraction / pressure
I think it could be best use for this particular reason. The attack is fast and hard to punish and has low knockback.

= Edge guard
Poke pesky opponents trying to get back on stage. Can poke people who are hanging when not in invincibility state.

= Out of grab range
Use your D-Tilt when time is short and your grab can't reach.

= Jab lock
Rather hard to land but easiest done with D-Tilt. Other attacks have far too much lag at the end of the attack to enable you to move forward and attack again. Jab Lock is initiated by jabbing an enemy just as they have fallen without recovering / tech'ing.


5) Final Thoughts

D-Tilt is a handy addition to Meta Knights move set. I believe this attack should be treated as a method of pressuring your opponent, as a combo starter and possibly a form of gimping thanks to its low knockback and quick speeds. It is definitely a move that should be part of your play style and is and possibly a move that can be overused without being punished.

 

[Trunks159]

Hmm, I'd rate it more around the lines of 3.5 to 3/5. As a Metaknight, its about a 4, though all in all, its range is what holds it back. Its a move that wont dominate, but will dominate your moveset.

 

[AmishTechnology]

Here's a very neat reddit post I stumbled into, sharing a couple D-Tilt tricks and a couple more related to other moves: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2uihhc/i_like_meta_knight_here_are_some_tricks/

Hey folks.

I've been messing around with Meta Knight recently, and came across a few tricks I figured I'd do a Show and Tell with.

Forgive the video quality, as I'm still stuck with the 3DS version.

Meta Knight's 'Free Fall' Setup Near Edges.

At certain percents, Meta Knight's dtilt has a chance to trip, or just cause the opponent to slide a certain distance. While the trip is awesome for grab set-ups, we're looking for a non-trip here.

If you hit a dtilt close to the edge and it doesn't cause trip, the opponent should end up sliding off the edge and going into what I call Free Fall.

Free Fall was used for true combos in one of My Smash Corner's videos. To those unaware, Free Fall is almost the same as a footstool fall; the opponent cannot do anything during the fall for a certain period.

Because MK's d-tilt has such little endlag, he can actually do an inescapable set up with this if he's fast enough to fast fall off the edge and follow them. The later the opponent enters the Free Fall, the more time you have to follow-up. So doing it juusstt close enough to cause the fall is more optimal than doing it when they're right next to the edge.

In this example, I used a B-Air to cause a stagespike, which cannot be escaped as far as I know, outside of teching upon contact with the stage. But other things such as an inescapable footstool is also possible.

Meta-Knight's Edge-Canceled Jab Followups.

This isn't exclusive to MK, but I figured I should mention it regardless.

Most rapid jabs such as C.Falcons, Little Mac, and of course - Meta Knight, start pushing you back after a certain amount of hits.

If you do it with your back to the edge, you will fall off the stage, but just be put into a neutral air situation. This allows you to combo into most special attacks. In this example, I use Up-B and Down-B. but all of MK's specials work as well.

Dtilt's Low Launch property.

At low 100%s (105% in Diddy Kong's case), Dtilt will start launching. However during these early periods, the launch is VERY low to the ground.

This makes for a pretty difficult tech for the opponent to do. Whilst this is against a CPU, it still shows just how little time your opponent has to tech. It allows for a pretty solid DownB Slash, imo.

Controlling Dimensional Slash's direction.

This is nowhere near as complicated, but I still wanted to point this out as I see few MKs using this.

Basically, Meta Knight will execute the slash in the opposite direction that you're pushing the movement stick. If you hold right, you'll attack facing left, and vice versa.

However, the easiest way to do just a simple forward facing attack, is to simply let movement go to neutral just before the slash comes out. That's it.

I know alot of MKs here might know this, but I still wanted to point it out because - like Lucario's counter - many others don't seem to know they can change the attack's direction.

There are of course other tricks, such as MK's Nair being great to hit opponents off the ledge with, since they're vulnerable for one frame, as well as the famous Bair to Dtilt lock at certain percents as well.

But yeah, fun stuff!

 

[busken]

Rate: 4.0
Potential Combos: Jab Locks, down tilt>side smash or down tilt>dimensional cape, Back air>missed tech>down tilt
Spacing: Lackluster range makes spacing options not so strong, it also stops the slide from perfect pivot. Not significant shield damage. Low end lag makes it hard to punish.
When to use: After a missed tech, edge guard

Final Thoughts:

When you consider that most of MK's moves do at most 7% bar smashes and specials, and this does 5% it's pretty solid. However, against a opponent who consistently lands their techs utilizing it consistently often tends to be a challenge. The reason why this move is so good though because it's literally glues MK's grounded options together. After they miss their tech you literally punish with anything you want. You can set up into another grab, use side smash, or use any special you want. One viable setup is that if you get the down tilt lock near the edge you can do the 3 down tilts and if you're spacing is tight you can do a fourth one which seems to make them temporarily go into a free fall animation in which you can then stage spike via back air. @ AmishTechnology posted some nice tricks from the reddit post. Even though I find the Edge canceled Jab Setup situational if you get 3 down tilts you can punish with Jab which can lead to any special, but the psuedo-free fall seems like a more viable option. down tilt>dcape is a good kill option as well.

I might go on to the next move soon, so make sure to contribute your thoughts if you haven't already.

 

[SSBSteve]

The down-Tilt > Dcape is an option I have not tried yet... the ending lag of that move does not influence me enough to use without risk.

After a few matches, I firmly believe that D-Tilt > Dash attack is a great option.

 

[Triburos]

Here's a very neat reddit post I stumbled into, sharing a couple D-Tilt tricks and a couple more related to other moves:

Here there, just chiming in that I was the one who threw that post up on Reddit. Glad it interested you .

After messing around for a bit, I want to mention some extra things;

Dtilt near the edge - if it causes trip - automatically forces the opponent into a ledge grab. But this only happens with a trip, otherwise they just go into free fall. I don't know if this is useful at all, but I figured I'd mention it. Maybe someone can work it into a ledge trump gimmick, because I've been able to grab the ledge with the, before they can do any on-ledge options, resulting in what seems to be a guaranteed trump set-up.

Second, Dtilt to D.Cape - while pretty reliable - can fail if it launches too low. I learned this the hard way when a Dark Pit player managed to mash attack after flubbing his tech and he hit me out of D.cape before my slash could connect with his wake-up attack.

However, I still think it's worth the risk, because getting hit by a wake-up attack isn't the most threatening thing in the world. I'm unsure of how unsafe it is if they actually do tech, though. I'm gonna guess; very.

 

[busken]

General Meta Knight Guide Moveset Discussion

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-= S-smash=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Discuss the viability of Meta Knight's side smash
Things to discuss:

1) Rate the move 1-5

2) Discuss any combos that utilize this move
3) Is it a viable spacing option? Is it safe on shield?
4) Discuss appropriate times to use the move?
5) Share any techs/methods that can boost the potential of the move.
​

 

[Trunks159]

3.5/5

It's an OK move, but I just don't use it much. Its range is not good, and its start up is a little slow, but it's hardly punishable. Safe on shield I'd say.

Its power is whats great about it. If you can read a roll or spot dodge, it works well.

All in all it's hardly punishable, but is kind of a waste of time to do it under kill per

 

[Rehnquist]

1) 4/5

2) The autolink on Bair works till about 100%. So fast fall Bair to Side Smash at 60-90% is a thing and usually nets a KO. Probably not the most practical set up in comparison to OoS SL, but its an option on a grounded opponent and can KO at earlier %'s pending on where you caught them. It does fill in the gap until D-tilt launching becomes viable.

3) Relatively Safe on Shield

4/5) Both of Trunks points are correct on the low ending lag and spot dodge reads of side smash. Though I think I use it more than he does, even when the move doesn't connect the low ending lag on the move is deceptive for many, so I use it to bait out an attack. If somebody miscalculates the range of the move, that's great, but having the opponent attempt to punish it with a dash attack usually nets me a shield grab to start a combo or if they are grab happy spot dodge putting them in MK's range. Obviously this isn't done against those who can zone properly or are wise enough to know what I'm doing.

 

[warionumbah2]

Another move that is underrated by MK users(same with mach tornado) there's literally no reason as to why people don't abuse this move other than not using it correctly...

1. 3/5

2. At low percents Dtilt sets up F-Smash nicely and as the guy above me nicely said FF Bair can set up F-Smash.

3. Characters like Marth,Ike,Shulk,DDD negate the use of spacing with F-Smash because they can easily out range it, but against Pikachu,Mario,Sheik,Diddy(oh look high tiers) its extremely useful since they don't outrange us that much or at all. Its extremely safe on shield.

4. Use it to punish landings and also approaches, it can be used as a bait tool similar to Ganons U-Smash. Also use it in neutral its there for the sake of baiting and landing easy damage, Dtilt right after is a good trick because it comes out disgustingly fast. I like to use it after i shuttle loop since people love to FF to punish me as seen in the video link below.

5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBqXfsj2AfY -1:13 i use pivot F-Smash to punish my opponents attempt to punish me. Also 8:28 scoring a kill at 82% by punishing aerial approaches.

 

[busken]

General Meta Knight Guide Moveset Discussion

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-= D-air=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Discuss the viability of Meta Knight's down tilt
Things to discuss:
1) Rate the move 1-5

2) Discuss any combos that utilize this move.
3) Is it a viable zoning? Is it safe on shield
4) Discuss appropriate times to use the move.
5) Share any techs/methods that can boost the potential of the move?
6) How does it contribute to "The Neutral"? ​

 

[Trunks159]

3.5/5

Good move to use in the neutral. Air camping with Mk is a great approach. Off stage, nair is better.
I dont use it much so I cant really contibute much. Its range is poor.

 

[warionumbah2]

I began using this often it really sets MK users apart because of how useful it is.

1.3.5/5 Lowest rating any of his aerials will get.

2. It can combo out of down throw and dash attack(the usual) but you got so many other options that deal more damage and setup frame traps. There's absolutely no reason to use it.

3. Its a very viable zone tool but only against certain characters, for example characters like Marth have a lot of range on their uairs. Characters like mac and samus have powerful up specials that shoot them straight up so you can bait those moves and punish accordingly. If they got a powerful Uair that's hard to avoid either try to bait it and punish,don't use it at all or stay out of its range.

This is safe on shield if you do a rising dair never or at least try not to land with this move the landing lag is pretty bad and very punishable on shield.

4. I use it when approaching my opponent since dair swipes infront of MK and also to play mind games with them. I use this move to zone them out then I either land beside them and grab or mach tornado which gives me free damage. I also do this just outside their range and if they shield too much I fast fall into dash grab, the same applies to any over commitment the opponent does out of fear. Also its good to use OOS as a combo setup(?) Or a get off me tool.

5. I got nothing I advice watching Katakri and S2H videos and see how they zone people. There's not much to it input wise.

6. This is useful in neutral to an extent it allows you to download your opponent based on how they react. Its especially good at applying pressure in the air avoiding all projectiles on the ground.

Edit: it does inded combo into other moves and its a great frame trap move at lower percents since it allows you to keep the pressure going. Boosting it up to 3.5.

 

[busken]

Combos
The move can be used via down throw at certain percents but it's poor knockback, damage output, and follow-up options make it outclassed by virtually any other option.


Zoning
The zoning viability of this move depends on the MU. If you are against ZSS, Pit, Marth, this move is virtually useless as the poor range is won't cover you well. Against Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mario, it is a potent option as none of them has the range to punish you without being in range to get hit.

SOS
Generally, the move is not safe on shield because most of the cast has OOS options that beat your pressure attempt. Characters Like Pit, can easily Up-Smash you OOS and get a chance to juggle you. Others such as Mario, Little Mac, Marth can Up-Special and escape.

When to use
Use it when trying to get a general feel for the opponent's playstyle or when trying to pressure. It has great mix-up potential so whenever you are above them try to tomahawk, dimensional cape, or tornado.

Methods to boost the move
Not really any method to make the move better then it is.

Contribution to the Neutral
In my opinion, this was MK's best tool in the neutral because it was fast, safe, and can pressure. Since it's nerfed it literally just made the MK's neutral game drastically lowered since it was his safest option. Now it really depends on the MU as it generally no longer a safe option.

Overall Thoughts

Usually MK's will either think this move is good or garbage. At first, I really liked the move as it gave me other approach and zoning options outside of running shield. But with playing against more characters I've come to the realization that the move really isn't that good. Even it hits I only get 4%, I can't really combo into or off of it, and sometimes they can just punish me heavily for it. One time I was facing a Jigglypuff and when I tried to get a grab they just shield dropped into crouch+rest killing me. Another time I faced a Pit player, and got Up smashed OOS. Due to the poor reward, and dependency on the MU I'll give the move a 3.

 

[busken]

General Meta Knight Guide Moveset Discussion

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=Down-Special=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Discuss the viability of Meta Knight's down special.
Things to discuss:
1) Rate the move 1-5
2) Discuss any combos that utilize this move.
3) Is it a viable zoning? Is it safe on shield
4) Discuss appropriate times to use the move.
5) Share any techs/methods that can boost the potential of the move?
6) How does it contribute to "The Neutral"? ​

 

[Galactic Knight]

Meta Knight's down tilt is insanely useful when you're facing a smash happy player past about 50%, the amount of Marth's tips I've avoided with a simple down tilt is many a reason why I managed to win or at least avoid being knocked off prematurely.

 

[Rehnquist]

Its been stated before somewhere on the boards, so nothing ground breaking will be stated here, but just to help get things moving.

1) 4

2) D-tilt 100%ish range into cape is an effective move

3) Its not a zoning tool, and its unsafe on shield

4) The teleport is always useful, it autocancels at about SH height, which allows you to jump in the air and get to the ground fast. It allows you to mix up your movements to try to confuse your enemies, so it can be thrown out in relative safety considering you control the height and location.

5) Nothing complex, it can punish smash attacks, it can break a few hitbox walling (shulks aerials, long range but high lag), it can also help with mixing up your recovery.

6) It can be used as a tool to reset the neutral if you are caught up in the air and are looking to land

 

[warionumbah2]

1)3

2)At 100% Dtilt sets up DC, solid kill option that needs to be follow up on frequently.

3)Same as Rehnquist

4)To get out of traps and disadvantageous states. It would be a 5 if it didn't have the glitch found here http://smashboards.com/threads/down-b-landing-lag-install.393057/

Any competent MK user will simply negate this by short hopping in neutral, but if other users read that thread and try to take advantage of it by going aggro(people do lurk these boards) we can easily punish them for it. They become desperate in forcing us to jump so we get a free DA or grab, either way we will always have a safe options to get rid of the landing lag.

5)When using the move if your holding a direction MK will slash in the opposite, so if you want maximum range on a move with good range just make sure you move your stick in the opposite direction so MK can slash forward(hit the lab for this one not hard to do).

6)It resets neutral and a good way to stall invincibility frames after someone respawns(works best on slower characters).

 

[ItoI6]

idk you guys are really over rating this move lol people will just hold R if they see you use this in neutral and then if theyre fast enough punish you for it even if you dont attack. its good for beating very specific projectiles and moves that are normally unchallengable like villagers tree or megaman spamming spaced pellets, but beyond that it isnt REALLY that useful when trying to land tbh. i usually dont land this move at all vs competent opponents and if i do maybe once or twice during a set, but when you do land it its a baller ass kill move and thats good enough for me.

 

[Trunks159]

4.5/5

It is imo one of the top 10 or 5 down bs in the game, up there with bouncing fish and such.
A. It kills. Its a kill option.
B. People are afraid that it kills, forcing them to shield. Simply ff ing and running and grabing becomes that much more reliable.
C. Escape from off map pressure to completely take over stage control. For the people who overextend, this punishes them.
D. For obvious dash attack/dash grab attempts, or spinddashes, or even bouncing fish, down b ing in place works wonders.
E. For when Fox and Falco side b onto the field.
F. Villager. When he chops or builds the tree, or reading a side b. Gordo punish.
G. For when youre down air campinh and need to return safely.
The more you use it, the more they fear it. They must respect it, so theyre more likely to stay in place. Metaknight loves his enemies to stay in one place.
I use this move both religiously and intelligently.

 

[warionumbah2]

idk you guys are really over rating this move lol people will just hold R if they see you use this in neutral and then if theyre fast enough punish you for it even if you dont attack. its good for beating very specific projectiles and moves that are normally unchallengable like villagers tree or megaman spamming spaced pellets, but beyond that it isnt REALLY that useful when trying to land tbh. i usually dont land this move at all vs competent opponents and if i do maybe once or twice during a set, but when you do land it its a baller *** kill move and thats good enough for me.

First of all im not overrating the move especially for reasons that you mention in your post, i clearly said its good for resetting neutral not good to use IN neutral. Beating projectiles? What the hell, this is only useful as an attack after dtilt(or a hard read) or as a way to escape disadvantage states/traps.

I rated this move high because its such a good movement option it gives MK what have which is free tickets out of disadvantage states.

The lot of you guys are crazy haha...

Pretty sure i know what im on about, yall just not reading my post clearly.

 

[AmishTechnology]

The lot of you guys are crazy haha... For KO'ing, I think of this move as a long-range/teleport Falcon Punch or Ike F-Smash. Basically, you're not going to land it against a competent player until you get a hard read or see a pattern in something with atrocious lag like Gordo, Samus Zapper, or a premature Counter/Vision. Catching something like Link throwing projectiles or a roll requires foresight because they will actually be able to shield if you do it around the same time... unless it's Robot Samus's roll lmao. You can't just say "well, a kill option is a kill option, so it must be good." Falcon Punch, Ike F-Smash, PK Cross (or whatever it's called), King Dedede F-Smash... these are all kill options. They're not necessarily good, and the D-Cape suffers similar disadvantages (SLOW, TELEGRAPHED). The one thing it has is the range/teleportation. That being said, sometimes, a Meta Knight player really just wants to throw out an Ike F-Smash.

You can use it as a getaway card, that much is true. Good for intangible recovery too. However, it's not as unpunishable as some people seem to be inferring when you're versing a character that's actually good (Diddy, Sheik, ZSS, Sonic, Pikachu, oh boy they are all fast). They can just run up and grab you even if you do the perfect SH cancel because they just run fast enough to catch you. It also is rather limited as to where you can use it because it puts you in free fall - however, this point might be null because I believe you can just grab the ledge if you can aim it properly? Not sure.

 

[Trunks159]

Well I wouldnt consider them kill options. Sure thry can kill but they arent options.

 

[Rehnquist]

idk you guys are really over rating this move lol people will just hold R if they see you use this in neutral and then if theyre fast enough punish you for it even if you dont attack. its good for beating very specific projectiles and moves that are normally unchallengable like villagers tree or megaman spamming spaced pellets, but beyond that it isnt REALLY that useful when trying to land tbh. i usually dont land this move at all vs competent opponents and if i do maybe once or twice during a set, but when you do land it its a baller *** kill move and thats good enough for me.

I don't rate based on frequency of use, I do it by utility, I rate the move high because it falls into the jack of all trades aspect.

Its one of six of MK's kill moves (punishing zoning attempts, characters specific), it has a very simple to execute combo at 100ish%, it can be used as a recovery, it can be used to return to neutral when under pressure. That is a pretty wide list for a single move, which means for different characters/opponents several of these aspects will be neutered, but it also means it can be used in whatever manner that it can best serve in the particular scenario.

Another reason why I highly favor the move because it is great in 2v2, which I have been playing recently so my biases might be due to that. Not high usage but it very consistently nets me a kill. If both sides are tangling it up, and the opponent your not fighting throws out any attack at your partner that has any bit of ending lag you can disengage your fight and punish the other fighter fairly easily (used in kill % to make it count). Also considering that both opponents are usually within range of the cape, the original opponent you were fighting is shielding excepting the attack, which is enough time for your partner to switch opponents to save you from the end lag.

Essentially, I try to keep myself within cape range of my partner to cover him in those cases. Without throwing it out all the time the threat of it is there and its threat which you can assert on both opponents at the same time. Its akin to having Samus holding a charge shot that you can shoot in any direction, shorter range but you have more choices in trajectory.

Also being its the closest thing MK gets for range / mind games, I have no issues over rating it.

edit:

I also forgot something, the recovery aspect is critical because since EVO announced customs, I've been playing with them more, and cape's recovery allows for more freedom in custom choices (blade coaster for example).

 

[Qazoo306]

One thing I like doing with DC is dropping from the ledge and using it as a get up attack esque move. It's not the most reliable but it can catch over aggressive opponents off guard and can set you up for some really strong edge guards.

 

[DelxDoom]

DC is not very useful but you can use it vs people with predictable airdodges.

 

[Zethoro]

I'm gonna give it a 4. It's good as a way to keep your opponent guessing, is a solid KO move and good for reads and punishing people who try to mix up by not going for the ledge when recovering. It's great out of DTilt, and I use it with and without the slash for mindgames. That glitch and the fact that it's unsafe on shield hurt it's viability, but it's still good, especially on the character with the lowest damage output in the cast.

 

[iggyboy456]

What characters does dtilt to cape work on? I can't get it to work on fox or diddy, maybe they fall too fast?

 

[busken]

What characters does dtilt to cape work on? I can't get it to work on fox or diddy, maybe they fall too fast?

At the right percentage, it should work on most of the cast. However, the faster they fall the more strict the timing becomes. Some characters can escape because of their floatiness.

General Meta Knight Guide Moveset Discussion

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=Mach Tornado=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Discuss the viability of Meta Knight's down special.
Things to discuss:
1) Rate the move 1-5
2) Discuss any combos that utilize this move.
3) Is it a viable zoning? Is it safe on shield
4) Discuss appropriate times to use the move.
5) Share any techs/methods that can boost the potential of the move?
6) How does it contribute to "The Neutral"? ​

 

[warionumbah2]

What characters does dtilt to cape work on? I can't get it to work on fox or diddy, maybe they fall too fast?

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...neral-discussion.370875/page-11#post-18748688

1)5/5

2)Down throw to mach tornado works on floaty characters like Peach at low perdents, the most easy to pull of yet rewarding combo is dash attack into tornado. It can give a maximum of 30% im able to get around 26-27% on average.

This works on

3)This move isn't to zone its a shield poking move, if mashed correctly you can eat up alot of characters shields to the point where they end up getting hit because of the shield being too small. Its most effective on tall characters such as .

4)It should be used when you want to land on your opponent as a mix up approach option, it should also be used to punish rolls,spot dodges and airdodges. Down throw then run after your opponent making them airdodge out of fear gives you a free tornado.

Its also good for punishing missed techs after using rising dair.And of course using it out DA on the characters i listed above is a MUST.

5)Don't mash too fast, there's actually a certain tempo for it. I haven't found the best one yet however i do manage to hit 20% alot when i focus on the timing. Hit the lab for this one.

6)It gives MK a decent mixup approach option, although it isn't safe. Only bad thing about it is the nerfed priority, but in turn people can't escape once they're in. Using this move effectively separates you from other MKs imo.

 

[Ryusuta]

I'm still working on improving my own Meta Knight so take this with a grain of salt.

1: 4/5 - Although it leaves you open if you spam it and isn't in and of itself the staple of Meta Knight gameplay, it's a very, very good move that does insane damage when it's set up right.

2: Pretty much what Warionumbah2 said. I don't really have much extra to contribute.

3: It's VERY unsafe on block, but at least it does good damage on shields.

4: I consider it a reliable punish for commonplace mistakes that also has a few intuitive setups on its own.

5: Again, what Warionumbah2 said. The rhythm is actually pretty intuitive. Just practice it a bit in training mode and you'll get the hang of it before very long at all.

6: It's a very good move to have in your back pocket during neutral because one good read on a move, roll, or air dodge will net you a simple, easy 20+% damage, which is very intimidating for an opponent to have in the back of their mind.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

As a Bowser Jr. user, I really hate the Mach Tornado...
Faced a good MK yesterday who abused the hell out of this move....
Consistently scored 20 damage per use on me....
what gives? This move may not have broken priority like in Brawl but it's still ridiculous that he can just throw it out like it's nothing and either score 20 damage on me or eat through my shield without much fear of reprisal or punishment... it may not be broken but it is still a pain in the ass...
Am I just missing something? How do you punish it?I would've beaten the guy if it wasn't for his tornado...

 

[ItoI6]

lol how is cape, dtilt, and tornado on the same level. tornado and shuttle loop are by far better than any of his other moves.

unfortunately it doesnt really shield poke unless your opponent doesnt know they can tilt their shield, but its still op in general because it just does so much damage and it catches airdodges/get up from the ledge really well. what you can do to tornado safely is against someone stuck shielding on the smashville platform you can always get away safely by fading away in the opposite direction the platform is moving. if you nado on someones shield if you can get in another tornado within like the next 10 seconds it should always poke their shield. dthrow-tornado is a true combo but only if they dont di away. also you can land on people after dairing a few times in the air and nado, it works sometimes even though it shouldnt lol

 

[DelxDoom]

his dash atk is also top 3 moves. it's one of the best in the game

 

[Rehnquist]

lol how is cape, dtilt, and tornado on the same level. tornado and shuttle loop are by far better than any of his other moves.

unfortunately it doesnt really shield poke unless your opponent doesnt know they can tilt their shield, but its still op in general because it just does so much damage and it catches airdodges/get up from the ledge really well. what you can do to tornado safely is against someone stuck shielding on the smashville platform you can always get away safely by fading away in the opposite direction the platform is moving. if you nado on someones shield if you can get in another tornado within like the next 10 seconds it should always poke their shield. dthrow-tornado is a true combo but only if they dont di away. also you can land on people after dairing a few times in the air and nado, it works sometimes even though it shouldnt lol

Just because they have the same number out of a very small range of 5 does not make the moves equal.

My list for 5 rating
1)DA/DG (approaching)
2)SL (strongest killing tool)
3)Uair/Tornado (chain/damage)

You may very well disagree with my list.

That being said, when we give MU numbers, we don't use the full range of 0-100, the vast majority lies within 40-60. So we are not curving the data when we throw numbers out, and I have a feeling you are looking to curve moveset data. MK's kit may not have 1's or 2's in it, it may have a lot of 4's and 3's, a few 5's, maybe a 2 in there somewhere.

We can argue about the moves, but if we are taking the moves as they are ranked, then we shouldn't use a 1-5 range, not everything in 5 would be equal, hotels certainly aren't. But a certain class of moves can be matched together given a limited rating system of 5. We don't have this limitation on MU's but its being applied to moves.

When forced into a 1-5 I go by this

1- Never useful
2- Below Average
3- Average
4- Above Average
5- Critical

Just to give an example, you mentioned this before but lets talk about cape and how it can be ranked.

Cape is one of MK's kill moves, which if we were judging base on this function alone would make it a 2 (maybe 1). It has a dtilt kill combo for it, OK well lets rate this a 2/3 as a below average or average move with some utility. Well it can be used to recover to neutral/stage, well we can call that 3 or 4 (average or above average). All put together, I would call that slightly above average personally, you can very frequently see this applied successfully at least twice a match for 1 of the 3 purposes, which is something falcon punch can't claim to do for example. So really the range of cape would be a 3-4. Some say 3, some say 4, its not totally radical for either position to be taken.

I would placate d-tilt as a 3 at this point as an average move, we can argue it the same way I did for cape.

Also considering that almost all of MK's moves just flows so nicely with each other its hard for one move to be a stand alone and not consider the follow ups and openings it can create. Do we place SL (finisher) or DA/DG (opener) higher on the list? Essentially I believe the smaller range is being given here due to how MK operates in combos rather than singular moves.

 

[ItoI6]

That being said, when we give MU numbers, we don't use the full range of 0-100, the vast majority lies within 40-60. So we are not curving the data when we throw numbers out, and I have a feeling you are looking to curve moveset data. MK's kit may not have 1's or 2's in it, it may have a lot of 4's and 3's, a few 5's, maybe a 2 in there somewhere.

Cape is one of MK's kill moves, which if we were judging base on this function alone would make it a 2 (maybe 1). It has a dtilt kill combo for it, OK well lets rate this a 2/3 as a below average or average move with some utility. Well it can be used to recover to neutral/stage, well we can call that 3 or 4 (average or above average). All put together, I would call that slightly above average personally, you can very frequently see this applied successfully at least twice a match for 1 of the 3 purposes, which is something falcon punch can't claim to do for example. So really the range of cape would be a 3-4. Some say 3, some say 4, its not totally radical for either position to be taken.

I'm not actually sure what you're saying. Did you think that I was curving the numbers for mk's matchups and when ranking these moves? If I say something is good or something is **** its because that's really the way I see it. I've always tried to be as literal as possible for the sake of not being misunderstood.

Here is a list of how good/useful I think Metaknight's moves are on him as a character from 1-5.

Jab: 1
Dtilt: 2
Ftilt: 3
Utilt: 1
Dash Attack: 5
DSmash: 2
FSmash: 4
Usmash: 3
Nair: 3
Fair: 3
Bair: 3
Uair: 4
Dair: 3
Neutral B: 5
Side B: 2
Up B: 5
Down B: 2

All of your analysis for Down B is just totally flawed. First of all I have never once seen Dtilt to Down B ever once used in an actual match, and there's a very good reason for that. The moment when Dtilt starts causing knock down is nearly the moment when UpB starts being a guaranteed kill, so it's almost always outclassed unless you're in a very small range of maybe 5~% where UpB doesn't kill and Dtilt still causes knockdown. Not only that, when you run forward to UpB you also have the chance to react to the opponent's tech option and still manage to land UpB for the kill if you play correctly, which is an opportunity totally missed if you decide to be unnecessarily fancy and do the difficult forward facing Down B. Using Down B as a recovery is also pretty stupid in almost every scenario because you can just wait under the stage with multiple jumps and use UpB to scrape against the stage and force anyone standing by the ledge into shield. When you land on stage after taking the ledge with Down B, you also have to deal with extra lag that could've been avoided if you had just recovered normally. Using it onstage to help landing just flat out fails vs a strong opponent. This move has very specific situational purposes and really isn't very good at all. Why would you call a move that you can only use well once or twice in a serious match at best average or above average? I give it a 2 because I know it isn't useless, but anything more is pushing it.

 

[Rehnquist]

Did you think that I was curving the numbers for mk's matchups and when ranking these moves? If I say something is good or something is **** its because that's really the way I see it. I've always tried to be as literal as possible for the sake of not being misunderstood.

First there was no misunderstanding on my part nor did I intend to say you curved any data, that was terribly worded on my part now that I've reread it.

What I was trying to get across was, are we rating MK's moves based on only the move pool of MK alone or as it pertains to every move in smash and how MK's moves stands up to the average, that was the clarity I was asking for. The (3) Average, changes pending on the move pool. If it was MK's move pool alone then the rating is curved by the worst MK move and the best MK move because everything else is excluded. Which is why I compared cape to a non mk move, and that in the larger poor list, cape can possible be seen as inflated, as there are clearly moves which have much less usage than 1-2 per match.

So we are talking about how we rate moves, not that you thought the move was useless/pointless. We agree that it has a low frequency (1-2), and that there is small % range before SL is better. That being said, SL it is clearly on par with some of the best moves in the entire game, its fast, good range, it works as a recovery, strong push back and damage. So with SL being so unbelievably powerful, cape will get less usage due to how great SL is. SL is an obvious 5 in the entire move pool of smash, so even if the cape gets outperformed by SL, the actually attributes of the cape are still average, it just gets outclassed by a move that MK possesses.

This is the reason for my rating system at any rate.

 

[busken]

I've always been looking for ways to improve my smash game, and as I was training I remembered a famous quote: Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I've then pondered on how I can apply this in smash, and I have found the answer. I am going to go through a training program I made for myself called: "Perfect Practice". It is when I input a specific input as fast as humanely possible without error, despite the next one. The goal of this is to master movement. Making combos that are near impossible to pull off easy due to muscle memory and sheer repetition. Practicing mix-ups and all kinds of tech skill. Undergoing this, In won't be active in this thread for awhile. I'll come back as a stronger smasher.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

5/5

Compared to brawl, the amount of risk in this move is much higher and its utility as an approach option has diminished due to its awful priority and incredible amount of endlag. Despite this, it still is an extremely good move.. It deals around 20% damage vs most characters (1/5 of a stock) and can be used as a combo finisher (down throw -->tornado is unreliable at low percents, but is nice for mix ups. Vs fastfallers you can use down throw--> dash attack -->tornado for a clean 33%). Its a great ledge trapper and deals a ridiculous amount of sheild damage as well (doesn't matter as much in a game where shields regenerate fast, but still useful nontheless).