Sosuke
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Messages
- 25,073
- Switch FC
- 8132-9932-4710
Well we all know that TL isn't progressing much lately. And, imo, everyone's play is starting to drift together in style. So lets try to mix it up guys. I'm just gonna as some random mindgame stuff I use and maybe other people can contribute too if they have anything to add. (I'm not sleeping to write this, you guys better love me. lolz).
Oh btw, no tl;dr. Read this or don't. =)
Projectiles:
-Well the standard thing I see with a reverse JC bomb throw is a SHDA followed afterwords. Thats not bad at all, but it becomes predictable. SHDAs in general become predictable. Not that it is a bade tactic at all, but its just too predictable at this point. Rather then shoot 2 arrows with the same consistency (making it VERY easy to perfect shield), why not just SH, charge an arrow, and shoot it just as you land? Now this does a few things. Your opponent will be waiting for the first arrow when you jump up and start pulling back on the bow. The charging of the bow will throw them off and mess up their timing. Since a charged arrow travels faster, their reaction time should be limited. In terms of damage, 2 arrows in a SHDA do ~8 damage. A charged one does 7~8, depending on how good you timing is (basically, if you release the arrow just as you land, like the second arrow in a SHDA, it will do 8 damage). Also, something about doing this makes the arrow charge a significant amount when your about to land when shooting it (causing the 1 extra damage). You also don't have to be limited to shooting it just as you land, just shoot it at any point you want to. Now you opponent doesn't only have to worry about (perfect) shielding the two arrows, but also arrow velocity and adjust their reaction time. Making the opponent have to worry about you more is going to really help Toon Link's game.
-Thechene's thread game me this idea: When you SHDA, or SH Nair (stuff like that) while on a platform, our totally exposed if they approach from underneath/ at a lower horizontal angle. Shooting an arrow isn't going to do anything. You just have time for the start of the Zair to come out. Since the Zair auto cancels, its useless to guard you in this situation. So instead, after you shoot the first arrow (or whatever your doing), hold down during/before a Zair. It will allow you to fall through the platform so the Zair extends, allowing you some more safety.
-Lets say your playing a DDD, or someone that you always needs a bomb out for. You just reverse JC threw a bomb, now what? Okay you short hop, shoot the first arrow of a SHDA, and then jump while pulling out a bomb. Then continue and do whatever. Now this can kind of be twisted around for the better. If you have a bomb in your hand, short hop, shoot an arrow, and JC throw the bomb. This was taking from Lobos' idea in the back room.
-When your holding a bomb, and your Zairing, it usually follows up with throwing the bomb forewords. Then the wtfhaxbbq VietG style bomb to Usmash. But if they're not at killing percentages, then don't waste the Usmash. And if they know the bombs coming, they're going to shield. Without the ability to grab when holing a bomb (...curse you Brawl), we are limited here. If your at this level, you and your opponent both know your not going to Usmash IF you throw that bomb. So your sorta of forced into a retreating position. Therefore, Zair, retreat would make sense, no? So what you do is Zair, dash the other way and JS throw as soon as you can. It should be one fluent motion. Their reaction to you turning around and retreating will cause them to chase you, resulting in a bomb to the face.
-Sometimes (and for some characters specifically) opponents will try to jump over your SHDA. Now to prevent this, jump, shoot and arrow, then jump again just as your about to land and shoot another arrow as going upwards. You can also boomerang or throw a bomb.
-When your running away with a bomb, a reverse JC throw is pretty predictable. Your opponent just has to look for when you turn around. To throw them off, when your turning around, just let the animation continue, and JC throw at the beginning of your animation of running towards them.
-When a boomerang is returning to you, please please please take advantage of it. Don't use a move that has low hit stun and no follow up (as in no arrows, bombs). This may be one of the very few times in the game you have a better chance to grab. If they shield, you grab them. If they attack you, you get those "super armor" grab frames and get the grab. If they Spot dodge, the grab will last long enough to get them (please learn the timing for this, its very useful). Also, if your timing is precise, you can get most moves in without getting punished. DTILT! Yes, really. It has cancel-able frames, so you can Dtilt, let the boomerang come back, and Dtilt, all in succession. Its not limited to that though. You can do almost whatever you want, AS LONG AS YOU LEARN THE TIMING.
Recovering:
-throwing bombs at the level is the best way to keep your opponent at bay, but if that doesn't work for you, there's some other stuff you can do. When your recovering vertically down...as in like, you just got Ness back-thrown, pull out a bomb, drop it (the bombs falling with you), and charge and arrow. I was playing around with it. Basically you shoot the arrow if your opponent is jumping off the level toward you to gimp you. If hes trying to go above you, you can shoot that super-fast arrow and stop him in his tracks. And if you miss, its fine. Theres like no lag. If they're coming in front of you, arrow. If they're coming from underneath, shoot the arrow because you don't need it (and cuz you might as well if the guys right there). The bomb still hit them if they come from underneath. And you can just shoot an arrow and air dodge->Zair as a mindgame, and to catch the bomb. Adjust it to your situation.
-Getting out a bomb, let yourself fall a little down from the edge, and throw the bomb up so its at the peak of its height and is falling down right on the edge. This prevent even TETHER GUARDING. The only thing you need to watch out for is getting spiked while going down. But you don't need to worry about that if you air dodge.
-Boomerangs at the level never hurt your recovery. Keep the projectiles in balance and working for you,
Ledge Work
-If they're relatively close to the ledge: When your grabbing the edge, drop down, fair while rising, and use Nair so first front hit of it hits your opponent. This tactic is very hard for most people to deal with from my experience.
-If they're a little ways off the edge: with a bomb in hand, drop from the edge, throw the bomb forwards and get far enough past the edge to do a Zair (sounds tricky, but easier in practice if you get the timing). The bomb and Zair should hit the opponent at about the same time.
~IMPORTANT: DO NOT OVER-ABUSE! STALLING IS BANNED!~
-Just mindgames/ messing with opponents gimping options: Drop down, throw a bomb up while using you mid-air jump, use Up-B to grab the edge, drop, use Bair to catch the bomb, jump again, and throw the bomb forwards (there's a certain amount of time you have to wait until you can throw the bomb without doing Fair. Learn the timing.). It seems pointless, but if your up against someone trying to predict your moves to get an easy kill, it should help.
...*slaps self to stay awake*
I'll put more stuff later...
add....input....ZZZZZ
WHY THE HELL DO I HAVE HICCUPS?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Oh btw, no tl;dr. Read this or don't. =)
Projectiles:
-Well the standard thing I see with a reverse JC bomb throw is a SHDA followed afterwords. Thats not bad at all, but it becomes predictable. SHDAs in general become predictable. Not that it is a bade tactic at all, but its just too predictable at this point. Rather then shoot 2 arrows with the same consistency (making it VERY easy to perfect shield), why not just SH, charge an arrow, and shoot it just as you land? Now this does a few things. Your opponent will be waiting for the first arrow when you jump up and start pulling back on the bow. The charging of the bow will throw them off and mess up their timing. Since a charged arrow travels faster, their reaction time should be limited. In terms of damage, 2 arrows in a SHDA do ~8 damage. A charged one does 7~8, depending on how good you timing is (basically, if you release the arrow just as you land, like the second arrow in a SHDA, it will do 8 damage). Also, something about doing this makes the arrow charge a significant amount when your about to land when shooting it (causing the 1 extra damage). You also don't have to be limited to shooting it just as you land, just shoot it at any point you want to. Now you opponent doesn't only have to worry about (perfect) shielding the two arrows, but also arrow velocity and adjust their reaction time. Making the opponent have to worry about you more is going to really help Toon Link's game.
-Thechene's thread game me this idea: When you SHDA, or SH Nair (stuff like that) while on a platform, our totally exposed if they approach from underneath/ at a lower horizontal angle. Shooting an arrow isn't going to do anything. You just have time for the start of the Zair to come out. Since the Zair auto cancels, its useless to guard you in this situation. So instead, after you shoot the first arrow (or whatever your doing), hold down during/before a Zair. It will allow you to fall through the platform so the Zair extends, allowing you some more safety.
-Lets say your playing a DDD, or someone that you always needs a bomb out for. You just reverse JC threw a bomb, now what? Okay you short hop, shoot the first arrow of a SHDA, and then jump while pulling out a bomb. Then continue and do whatever. Now this can kind of be twisted around for the better. If you have a bomb in your hand, short hop, shoot an arrow, and JC throw the bomb. This was taking from Lobos' idea in the back room.
-When your holding a bomb, and your Zairing, it usually follows up with throwing the bomb forewords. Then the wtfhaxbbq VietG style bomb to Usmash. But if they're not at killing percentages, then don't waste the Usmash. And if they know the bombs coming, they're going to shield. Without the ability to grab when holing a bomb (...curse you Brawl), we are limited here. If your at this level, you and your opponent both know your not going to Usmash IF you throw that bomb. So your sorta of forced into a retreating position. Therefore, Zair, retreat would make sense, no? So what you do is Zair, dash the other way and JS throw as soon as you can. It should be one fluent motion. Their reaction to you turning around and retreating will cause them to chase you, resulting in a bomb to the face.
-Sometimes (and for some characters specifically) opponents will try to jump over your SHDA. Now to prevent this, jump, shoot and arrow, then jump again just as your about to land and shoot another arrow as going upwards. You can also boomerang or throw a bomb.
-When your running away with a bomb, a reverse JC throw is pretty predictable. Your opponent just has to look for when you turn around. To throw them off, when your turning around, just let the animation continue, and JC throw at the beginning of your animation of running towards them.
-When a boomerang is returning to you, please please please take advantage of it. Don't use a move that has low hit stun and no follow up (as in no arrows, bombs). This may be one of the very few times in the game you have a better chance to grab. If they shield, you grab them. If they attack you, you get those "super armor" grab frames and get the grab. If they Spot dodge, the grab will last long enough to get them (please learn the timing for this, its very useful). Also, if your timing is precise, you can get most moves in without getting punished. DTILT! Yes, really. It has cancel-able frames, so you can Dtilt, let the boomerang come back, and Dtilt, all in succession. Its not limited to that though. You can do almost whatever you want, AS LONG AS YOU LEARN THE TIMING.
Recovering:
-throwing bombs at the level is the best way to keep your opponent at bay, but if that doesn't work for you, there's some other stuff you can do. When your recovering vertically down...as in like, you just got Ness back-thrown, pull out a bomb, drop it (the bombs falling with you), and charge and arrow. I was playing around with it. Basically you shoot the arrow if your opponent is jumping off the level toward you to gimp you. If hes trying to go above you, you can shoot that super-fast arrow and stop him in his tracks. And if you miss, its fine. Theres like no lag. If they're coming in front of you, arrow. If they're coming from underneath, shoot the arrow because you don't need it (and cuz you might as well if the guys right there). The bomb still hit them if they come from underneath. And you can just shoot an arrow and air dodge->Zair as a mindgame, and to catch the bomb. Adjust it to your situation.
-Getting out a bomb, let yourself fall a little down from the edge, and throw the bomb up so its at the peak of its height and is falling down right on the edge. This prevent even TETHER GUARDING. The only thing you need to watch out for is getting spiked while going down. But you don't need to worry about that if you air dodge.
-Boomerangs at the level never hurt your recovery. Keep the projectiles in balance and working for you,
Ledge Work
-If they're relatively close to the ledge: When your grabbing the edge, drop down, fair while rising, and use Nair so first front hit of it hits your opponent. This tactic is very hard for most people to deal with from my experience.
-If they're a little ways off the edge: with a bomb in hand, drop from the edge, throw the bomb forwards and get far enough past the edge to do a Zair (sounds tricky, but easier in practice if you get the timing). The bomb and Zair should hit the opponent at about the same time.
~IMPORTANT: DO NOT OVER-ABUSE! STALLING IS BANNED!~
-Just mindgames/ messing with opponents gimping options: Drop down, throw a bomb up while using you mid-air jump, use Up-B to grab the edge, drop, use Bair to catch the bomb, jump again, and throw the bomb forwards (there's a certain amount of time you have to wait until you can throw the bomb without doing Fair. Learn the timing.). It seems pointless, but if your up against someone trying to predict your moves to get an easy kill, it should help.
...*slaps self to stay awake*
I'll put more stuff later...
add....input....ZZZZZ
WHY THE HELL DO I HAVE HICCUPS?
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
