Missing Shine Cancel?

[Nox_SSBM]

Hey guys, i've been having an issue when practicing, and that is: Sometimes when i'm combo-ing or approaching in netural, I l'll do a shine and hit jump almost right after, but it won't jump! ill go through the full shine animation. It only happens sometimes and seems to happen mostly when i hit the shine, am i doing it to fast? To slow? This has ended so many great combos, and i'm very confused by it


Thanks in advance all

 

[tauKhan]

When you hit someone, your character will freeze in the attack animation for a tiny period, which is referred to as 'hitlag'. The hitlag on falco's shine freezes him for 5 frames, so when you normally could jump out on frame 4 of shine, you must wait to frame 9 when you hit with the shine. So you need to adjust your timings when you hit someone with the shine. To illustrate the difference, it's like wavedashing with bowser instead of fox when comparing the gap between the button inputs.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Yeah it's what tauKhan said. it's hitlag.
It's the same reason why doing a shffl dair without hitting someone and doing one while hitting someone changes the timing of your L/R/Z button to l-cancel the aerial. It freeze frames for a second and you'll have to adjust your inputs because of it. It's pretty annoying if you ask me.

 

[Nox_SSBM]

Okay, thanks for the help guys! Im gonna have to practice the different timings

 

[Michelangelo]

Quick tip: a good way to practice this is on a 9 handicap bowser with damage ratio 0.5. Let's you practice waveshines with hitlag very easily .

 

[Nox_SSBM]

Quick tip: a good way to practice this is on a 9 handicap bowser with damage ratio 0.5. Let's you practice waveshines with hitlag very easily .

Thanks man! Before i was practicing with only another controller, never thought about putting a handicap on. This really helps!

 

[Deleted member]

I needed help on the exact same thing. I am trying to pick up Falco as a secondary.

 

[FE_Hector]

I needed help on the exact same thing. I am trying to pick up Falco as a secondary.

I don't want to ruin the purpose of the thread, but unless you're a top player, secondaries or dual maining really aren't a good idea. You'll likely just end up attempting to use one character to cover up your weaknesses as another instead of gaining more knowledge of the MU that you're struggling with by practicing it until you win. It says you main Marth. I promise you he doesn't need a secondary. I used to main him until I decided that Falco was far more fun and engaging for me. PM me if you want to know a bit more on the topic.

 

[Kksweet]

I don't want to ruin the purpose of the thread, but unless you're a top player, secondaries or dual maining really aren't a good idea. You'll likely just end up attempting to use one character to cover up your weaknesses as another instead of gaining more knowledge of the MU that you're struggling with by practicing it until you win. It says you main Marth. I promise you he doesn't need a secondary. I used to main him until I decided that Falco was far more fun and engaging for me. PM me if you want to know a bit more on the topic.

i hate when people say this. its really annoying. 'oh dual maining is soooo bad if you're not a top player. I mean if you want to dual main dual main. theres specific reasons to dual main and the most common one is to just pick a character you like playing and play him. If you like playing your main and also think you'll like another character then do it. Saying that dual maining is just for top pros is a pretty sure way to tell someone you've been force fed information from reddit or something and you're just a facilitator that easily regurgitates information that you have no real knowledge about.

 

[FE_Hector]

Except that it's TRUE. Unless you already intimately understand your character and all of their MUs and all that jazz, a secondary/dual main is only going to be used to cover up weaknesses. People always say that Falco struggles against Peach, but in my opinion, a lot of people also haven't put as much work into that MU as they really should. It's not like it's just me who possesses this opinion, either, PPMD has actually spoken about it extensively.

I have NOT been force fed information and I do NOT just easily regurgitate information. I've put my own thought into it, too, so please don't just judge me without actually knowing me.

 

[C-SAF]

i hate when people say this. its really annoying. 'oh dual maining is soooo bad if you're not a top player. I mean if you want to dual main dual main. theres specific reasons to dual main and the most common one is to just pick a character you like playing and play him. If you like playing your main and also think you'll like another character then do it. Saying that dual maining is just for top pros is a pretty sure way to tell someone you've been force fed information from reddit or something and you're just a facilitator that easily regurgitates information that you have no real knowledge about.

U hear it a lot cuz its true. U can play however many characters u want, but the truth is that dual maining is a crutch. The real bull**** u hear on reddit is when people say they they have a second character. None of us have even one character let alone 2.

I hate to say it, but in telling others they have no knowledge of what they are talking about, u kinda showed how little u know about what ur talking about lmao. Ur arguing against a well known truth, not just one persons opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

U hear it a lot cuz its true. U can play however many characters u want, but the truth is that dual maining is a crutch. The real bull**** u hear on reddit is when people say they they have a second character. None of us have even one character let alone 2.

I hate to say it, but in telling others they have no knowledge of what they are talking about, u kinda showed how little u know about what ur talking about lmao. Ur arguing against a well known truth, not just one persons opinion.

Is it bad that I like playing two different characters that I like? And why did 'U' say that you don't even have one character?

 

[FE_Hector]

@Daxtart There's nothing wrong with enjoying playing two characters, but maybe just main one and mess around with the other and maybe even switch mains if you want to. My main changed from Falco to Marth because I started goofing off with Falco in training mode a little bit and found he was more fun, so I switched.

Obviously I can't speak for C-SAF, but I think the reason he's saying he doesn't have one character is because he doesn't have one character that he can rely on to consistently win with. Westballz HAS a Falco and Plup HAS a Sheik. They intimately understand their characters and setups and all that jazz. They're capable of relying on their mains to beat or very nearly beat other exceptionally good players, regardless of main, almost every time. Conversely, I DON'T have a Falco because I'm still developing as a player. I get a bit too nervous in neutral and don't always approach as intelligently as I should. My recoveries get a bit too predictable sometimes and I'm not always that clean in my followups. There are mechanical parts of my game that are sorely lacking, and then the far less mechanical aspects have to be built up.

 

[C-SAF]

Is it bad that I like playing two different characters that I like? And why did 'U' say that you don't even have one character?

Pretty much what hector said. I play lots of characters for fun, but I don't divert my efforts to improve from my falco, nor do I try to counterpick people in tournament. For new players looking to improve quickly, I just want them to know its not a reddit meme or whatever that other guy was insinuating it was that solo maining is the way to go.

 

[Kksweet]

lets be real here yo, anybody who has less than 3-4 years of experience in this game aren't going to try and go pro. I know people who hve been playing longer than leffen and even mango, yet they still think that dual maining is fine. Dual maining has more of a purpose at a higher level of smash than it does at medium to lower level players.

IF you think i'm really trying to bag on you, judge you or whatever you think, you've comeplelty missed my point. If you want to dual main just do it. don't do it just because you want to cover your bad matchups. just do it because you love playing melee and want to learn a new character. you could have only been playing melee for a year, and id still stay 'if ur prupose to pick up another cahracter is soley to just cover bad MU, then you shouldnt pick up another main at all.'

and brinigng pros up in this kind of scenario is pretty dumb because they are talking about maining on a whole differently level than you or me

 

[Kksweet]

Pretty much what hector said. I play lots of characters for fun, but I don't divert my efforts to improve from my falco, nor do I try to counterpick people in tournament. For new players looking to improve quickly, I just want them to know its not a reddit meme or whatever that other guy was insinuating it was that solo maining is the way to go.

pretty sure i have more compettive experience than most of you here in other games. i can't really say tyhat about smash cuz i just picked it up after not playing for 10 years, but ya im just gunna say most the things i see here are just wrong. im all in for helping peopel out but when someone tells someone else not to do something and they just give a dumb asnwer i get triggered

 

[FE_Hector]

lets be real here yo, anybody who has less than 3-4 years of experience in this game aren't going to try and go pro.

I couldn't disagree more. I haven't been playing for a full year yet, but my goal is still to eventually be a pro player. Just because I haven't been playing for several years doesn't mean I don't want to go pro.

 

[Kksweet]

Is it bad that I like playing two different characters that I like? And why did 'U' say that you don't even have one character?

dont listen to the haters dude just you do you and play thjis game cuz it brings out good vibes

 

[FE_Hector]

Kksweet 100% unrelated to the argument we're having, but could you please avoid multiposting? You could simply reply to or quote multiple things in one response, editing some in if you missed something. It's kinda annoying when people reply to the same thread multiple times without giving anybody else time to respond.

 

[Kksweet]

I couldn't disagree more. I haven't been playing for a full year yet, but my goal is still to eventually be a pro player. Just because I haven't been playing for several years doesn't mean I don't want to go pro.

reality check; most likely youll never get top 100 in the next year at a super major at all. i mean comeon you've got to to be more realistic and have better expectations when you play a game and consider going pro in it. I play dOTa 2 and i could go pro, but in the begining you have to keep a clear mindset and just assume youùre not

 

[Kksweet]

Kksweet 100% unrelated to the argument we're having, but could you please avoid multiposting? You could simply reply to or quote multiple things in one response, editing some in if you missed something. It's kinda annoying when people reply to the same thread multiple times without giving anybody else time to respond.

pretty sure i wasnt adressing you at all

 

[FE_Hector]

reality check; most likely youll never get top 100 in the next year at a super major at all. i mean comeon you've got to to be more realistic and have better expectations when you play a game and consider going pro in it. I play dOTa 2 and i could go pro, but in the begining you have to keep a clear mindset and just assume youùre not

The point was that I eventually WANT to go pro. The fact that I haven't been playing for a while doesn't mean that I don't aspire to reach that point eventually, like you implied.

pretty sure i wasnt adressing you at all

You don't have to be addressing me. The forum rules are the forum rules regardless.

 

[C-SAF]

Kksweet


1. Im not "hating". He can play as many characters as he wants, its just not the most efficient way to improve.

2. Im not trying to "go pro", but I am trying to improve. If that is not ur goal than why comment. Dual maining is obviously fine if ur goal is not to improve at the fastest rate. Lots of people play for other reasons.

3. U have no way to prove ur own expertise, nor do i care. U may as well claim ur dad works at nintendo, u cant prove it true, and i cant prove it wrong lmao

 

[Kksweet]

Kksweet


1. Im not "hating". He can play as many characters as he wants, its just not the most efficient way to improve.

2. Im not trying to "go pro", but I am trying to improve. If that is not ur goal than why comment. Dual maining is obviously fine if ur goal is not to improve at the fastest rate. Lots of people play for other reasons.

3. U have no way to prove ur own expertise, nor do i care. U may as well claim ur dad works at nintendo, u cant prove it true, and i cant prove it wrong lmao

lol k
man this place SUCKS what happend to the old smashborads from pre 2009

 

[Kksweet]

go memes i love slayer

 

[C-SAF]

lol k
man this place SUCKS what happend to the old smashborads from pre 2009

I wouldn't judge sb by one confrontational conversation u had with a few people. If u are more cordial and less combative u will find much better conversations.

 

[Deleted member]

Kksweet,thanks for encouraging me to go for a secondary but you really shouldn't multipost. Also i have only played back in the day, but now I am trying to go to tournaments. I have basically only played for 2 years so i disagree about the statement that only people who have played for years would try to go pro.