Missile cancel options I don't see used very much

[Eisen]

Just a topic I thought I'd bring up, because there's surprisingly not a lot other than straight missile cancelling I see used like, ever. I'm sure some folks use these other options and I'm sure they're not the best, but here's some stuff I think could more often be helpful than given credit for. Feedback is appreciated.

*MC = Missile cancel
*PMC = standard platform missile cancelling
*WM = weak missile
*SM = smash missile
*WD/SH/FH = wavedash/short hop/full hop, etc.

The following are assumed to be on Battlefield:

From the left/right to the middle, inside of BF's outer platforms:

PMC > PMC

Yes, as strange as it might sound, I missile cancel twice using the first platform like the floor of the stage. You can also do:

PMC > PMC > FH/SH missiles, or
PMC > PMC > drop down missiles
PMC > PMC > dash > missile while falling onto middle platform > missile after landing, ala 4 missiles. This I can see only working if you launch an opponent far from the opposite side of BF and just want to rain missiles on them while they're recovering.
PMC > PMC > drop down zair, for opponents flirting with the opposite end of the stage/trying to escape
PMC > PMC > any drop down aerial

These will also work on WarioWare, albeit not as effectively because of the small blastzones/stage size.

This next set doesn't have to be on any particular stage, except one you can missile cancel on.

PMC > grounded missile
PMC > FH/SH missiles
PMC > FH/SH aerials - This, I like to use particularly with ice fair/ice upsmash for opponents recovering high, or I'll use Zair instead for horizontal range.
PMC > dropdown zair - Seriously, this is great for racking up damage while keeping the opponent in place. I also enjoy:
PMC > dropdown aerials OR
PMC > dropdown > double jump > waveland > aerial/missile - for mindgames

PMC > wavedash backwards > Smash missile when you fall off the platform > PMC > etc etc (Basically, an endless loop of slightly slower missile cancels that doesn't require you to wavebounce/b-reverse. Surprisingly, I'm finding it hard to get used to the timing because this is something I just thought to use, and I wind up dropping down/shielding/spot dodging instead of the WD.

PMC > dash > dropdown aerial/zair/missile/whatever

Okay, I'm kind of sounding like a broken record at this point, but what I'm trying to say is that Samus has a LOT of freaking options. Like. More than we'll ever need, probably. The problem, I think, is finding proper uses for them. At the very least, these can serve as mixups, since they're kind of gimmicky and I don't think work well as general strategies. Nonetheless, I think mixups are extremely important and we should be looking into all our options here. Mostly, though, the point is that missile cancelling in itself does a LOT more for us than just allowing us to spam missile faster. It gives us a ton of movement options, like Fox being able to cancel his shine, only like 1,000 times less broken but still really good.

Anyway, had to get this off my mind, so here ya go. Any of you guys ever use any of this stuff?

 

[Litt]

Just a topic I thought I'd bring up, because there's surprisingly not a lot other than straight missile cancelling I see used like, ever. I'm sure some folks use these other options and I'm sure they're not the best, but here's some stuff I think could more often be helpful than given credit for. Feedback is appreciated.

*MC = Missile cancel
*PMC = standard platform missile cancelling
*WM = weak missile
*SM = smash missile
*WD/SH/FH = wavedash/short hop/full hop, etc.

The following are assumed to be on Battlefield:

From the left/right to the middle, inside of BF's outer platforms:

PMC > PMC

Yes, as strange as it might sound, I missile cancel twice using the first platform like the floor of the stage. You can also do:

PMC > PMC > FH/SH missiles, or
PMC > PMC > drop down missiles
PMC > PMC > dash > missile while falling onto middle platform > missile after landing, ala 4 missiles. This I can see only working if you launch an opponent far from the opposite side of BF and just want to rain missiles on them while they're recovering.
PMC > PMC > drop down zair, for opponents flirting with the opposite end of the stage/trying to escape
PMC > PMC > any drop down aerial

These will also work on WarioWare, albeit not as effectively because of the small blastzones/stage size.

This next set doesn't have to be on any particular stage, except one you can missile cancel on.

PMC > grounded missile
PMC > FH/SH missiles
PMC > FH/SH aerials - This, I like to use particularly with ice fair/ice upsmash for opponents recovering high, or I'll use Zair instead for horizontal range.
PMC > dropdown zair - Seriously, this is great for racking up damage while keeping the opponent in place. I also enjoy:
PMC > dropdown aerials OR
PMC > dropdown > double jump > waveland > aerial/missile - for mindgames

PMC > wavedash backwards > Smash missile when you fall off the platform > PMC > etc etc (Basically, an endless loop of slightly slower missile cancels that doesn't require you to wavebounce/b-reverse. Surprisingly, I'm finding it hard to get used to the timing because this is something I just thought to use, and I wind up dropping down/shielding/spot dodging instead of the WD.

PMC > dash > dropdown aerial/zair/missile/whatever

Okay, I'm kind of sounding like a broken record at this point, but what I'm trying to say is that Samus has a LOT of freaking options. Like. More than we'll ever need, probably. The problem, I think, is finding proper uses for them. At the very least, these can serve as mixups, since they're kind of gimmicky and I don't think work well as general strategies. Nonetheless, I think mixups are extremely important and we should be looking into all our options here. Mostly, though, the point is that missile cancelling in itself does a LOT more for us than just allowing us to spam missile faster. It gives us a ton of movement options, like Fox being able to cancel his shine, only like 1,000 times less broken but still really good.

Anyway, had to get this off my mind, so here ya go. Any of you guys ever use any of this stuff?

all of it, just common sense to mix them up and didnt think they needed to be spelled out for anyone :/

 

[Eisen]

Maybe, but I honestly haven't seen mostly any of it used ever. But truth be told, I don't make it a point to watch Samus videos often, and there aren't too many good ones around anyway.

 

[pooch182]

This thread is sub-par at best.

 

[pizzacato]

I guess this is good for new players to see.
I think it's cute.

 

[Chevy]

If you wavedash backwards off of one of the top WarioWare platforms at the right angle, you can edge cancel one missile on the middle platform and get 3 out in pretty much a straight free fall, it's pretty neat.

 

[Eisen]

I expected some more mature responses, or at least helpful ones. Clearly I expected too much.

 

[pooch182]

Maybe, but I honestly haven't seen mostly any of it used ever. But truth be told, I don't make it a point to watch Samus videos often, and there aren't too many good ones around anyway.

How am I supposed to take you seriously after this? Not to mention your "I have 437 mains per game" signature.

 

[Shoto]

I'm not sure, I just toss out missiles if the time feels right. These could probably work and if you feel that way go ahead and use them Thanks for posting this. If I ever need to switch it up, I'll visit this thread.

 

[Eisen]

How am I supposed to take you seriously after this? Not to mention your "I have 437 mains per game" signature.

Really? THIS was your basis for how you responded? Are you ****ing serious? I'm sorry, but that's just arrogant as hell, I think. Let me ask you this, then: how am I supposed to take you seriously when you make baseless assumptions? Am I to assume you're below me because you make enormous leaps with your logic? Well, thankfully I don't, but I do find it disappointing.

I have mains, and I have characters I mess with. I barely even play Melee, let alone Smash 64. Those are there to represent characters I enjoy playing. Smash 4 isn't even out yet, so it's pretty obvious all those characters can't be my mains being that the game isn't even out in the west. Most of those characters are ones I want to try out because, you know, I don't know too much about how they play yet. Others are staple predictions like Samus, Ness, and Bowser. The Project M list pretty clearly has a divisor between the first two characters and the other ones, so if you wanna go ahead and assume things, assume (correctly) that it divides my mains from my sub-mains.

Frankly, I shouldn't HAVE to explain all this at all, but I actually am for some reason. Even if you were decent/good at Smash, it would give you zero excuse to be condescending.

If this thread really isn't helpful, say so in a way that's constructive instead of berating somebody who's trying to help. I merely made an observation, and if it's wrong, then great, the thread isn't necessary. Just say so and give examples. All I'm saying is that I haven't seen really any purposeful use of half of these options. Really, it's mostly just double missile zoning utility I see. I realize I don't catch everything, but I found the options useful in my endeavors and very interesting. If there's something wrong with that, sorry I guess? Sorry I don't know what people know/are thinking? Not sure what I'm supposed to say to please the attitudes, really.

 

[pooch182]

This thread just comes across as entirely redundant. We've got videos on the application of missile canceling and which types of canceling can be used on which stages. The whole system of explanation used is alright on paper, but I've found that the important thing is learning the execution of the techniques. Application is something that is naturally figured out and expanded as someone grows experience.

Of course, I'm usually not against discussion aimed at the development of our character's meta; but the observation that you've made, essentially stating that your very basic options aren't used by Samus mains, kind of annoys me. Is it petty? It sure as hell is, but I'm tired, sick, and cranky, so I'll ***** about anything.

In all reality, the premise of the thread is a good idea, but it's written poorly with scarce resources to draw from (having video examples of these applications is easy enough), and to me, I feel it deserves to be an addition to The Little Things or a different, more all-encompassing thread.

I definitely haven't communicated myself well today, and I again apologize for that. At the same time, I will note that any time I see somebody who I haven't seen good footage of posting with like 15 stock heads in their sig, I instantly assume they are amateur at best and don't take the game seriously. I'm a stubborn, arrogant, douchebag, but that's just the way it is. I've dumped hundreds of hours into studying these games to just come across as competent in this community, so sometimes I get very defensive over dumb ****. Sorry, but it's how I am, and how I'll remain.

 

[Litt]

Everyone chill out, this thread, I hate to say it, is pretty useless, because you are just spelling out logic for players too stupid to apply their own mind to the game, players don't need a list of possible missile mechanics, they need to know the movement limits of their character and the rest will be self explanatory of when/how to use a missile. Understandably you wanted to be helpful, and I can appreciate that, haven written the guide most players refer to for PM samus, but there is a fine line between applicable information about a character, and applying that knowledge in game to expand meta. The latter is the result of your guide, you trying too hard to explain what samus can do, instead of laying out the mechanics and giving broader implications of where they can be used, so players can apply their own creativity, which is their meta and how they play their character. The main reason everyone was not in agreement with your guide, is because you took it past mechanics to the most rudimentary level of reasoning of how to apply tech, which all of these players can think about in their sleep, and seems redundant after Esam's missile tutorial. Yes the game is smash, but the rules of how to play are learned by players, and good players figure them out first and apply them. In short, this guide should be called 2003 meta, because its essentially one though added to already known techs that are pretty much common sense.