MIOM 2015 SSBMRank discussion

[FEOwain]

So MIOM is making a list of the best 100 players in the world from January 2015 --> Dreamhack Winter 2015. This is the third time they've done this year-in ranking, as they did it for 2014 and 2015, but you already knew that. So here, debate with others about top player rankings and discuss!

 

[GenNyan]

Ten bucks says that the reason they're redoing 2015 is because of Hbox. Needless to say that he'll be moving up past number 5. I'm interested to see where people will place Mango. He's had a decent-ish 2015 up until recently, not exactly sure where to put him. I also have no idea where PPMD goes.

All I know is that Gimr will be replacing Westballz as a top ten player.

 

[Norway]

hmm, pretty sure top 3 will be:
1- Armada
2- Hbox
3- Leffen

This has been an amazing year for melee, and I can't wait to see how next year will be.

Honestly can't decide who is 6th

 

[-ACE-]

I'd give 6th to Plup over axe/west

 

[gmBottles]

I'd give 6th to Plup over axe/west

Plup definitely deserves 6th. I don't have much of an opinion about Axe, but I think Westballz is just not top 10 material simply because of how he plays. He has the capability to be so much better, but he spends too much time trying to style or SDing that it really holds him back.

Armada will definitely be first, I have no doubts about that. Hungrybox will probably be 2nd with all of the Armada vs Hbox grand finals we've seen recently, as well as his general improvement. Leffen being 3rd is a bit iffy, but is probably the right move. I really have no idea otherwise. Mang0 will probably move down a bit, but not too much.

 

[Dolla Pills]

First is definitely going to Armada. I would rank Hbox second but there is an argument for Leffen, that being said they will 2/3 spot for sure. Fourth is probably going to be mango because who else would it go to? I'd imagine m2k is next. Can we even rank PP? If so I'm guessing sixth.

Aside from that I'd assume Plup, Axe, Westballz, and Shroomed would follow in some order with Plup probably being ahead. I'm interested to see where the players who have made improvements like Duck will end up.

 

[B-Will]

My top ten:
1) Armada - no explanation needed
2) Hungrybox - i didnt want to take the easy way out and put both hungrybox and leffen tied here. the reason why i gave hungrybox the edge is because he is so damn consistent. people forget that leffen had a pretty rough start to 2015. he dominated up til the latter part of summer then is back to not performing on top (i understand he had TSA issues). hungrybox getting 1st at Dreamhack was the icing on the cake on top of the aforementioned consistency he has demonstrated
3) Leffen - see above
4) Mango - More inconsistent then the previous three but still has the ability to win a tournament if he is playing on point
5) Mew2king - Still is better than everyone else outside of the top 6. His win record against non top 6 players is pretty damn good.
6) PPMD? - He's only played in three tourneys (that I know of this year). He has been inconsistent himself...coupled with the fact that he has only played in 3 tournies makes me hesitate to even put him here. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
7) Plup - A little more consistent than Westballz
8) Westballz - See above...
9) Axe- I put axe at ninth because he has been a little less consistent then plup or westballz this year IMO. I also feel like he had a shorter ceiling then those two as far as results go at least in 2015. I expect good things from him in 2016! One of my favorite players
10) Shroomed - I almost put him in front of axe. Very consistent for the most part and has had axe's number lately. If these two were switched, I would not argue!

I am also excited to see where Duck lands. Huge improvement. Do we move abate up based off of one tourney? What about android? I looking forward to see who will have the greatest leap on the rankings list.

 

[Dolla Pills]

Earlier I was curious about average placings, so I compiled some for Leffen, Hbox and Mango for "majors" (I put that in quotations because it's hard to determine what to include and what not to, so take this with a grain of salt).

Hbox- 2.67
Leffen- 3.17
Mango- 3.67

Again not the best data probably because I don't have a good metric for which events to include, I mostly just wanted to see if Hbox's average placement was indeed higher than Leffen's.

 

[B-Will]

Earlier I was curious about average placings, so I compiled some for Leffen, Hbox and Mango for "majors" (I put that in quotations because it's hard to determine what to include and what not to, so take this with a grain of salt).

Hbox- 2.67
Leffen- 3.17
Mango- 3.67

Again not the best data probably because I don't have a good metric for which events to include, I mostly just wanted to see if Hbox's average placement was indeed higher than Leffen's.

thanks for the data! it also substantiates my claim that hungrybox is second!

 

[Trr_woof]

I was think about the effect of puting Hbox over leffen for the 2nd spot on the miom ranking (Which personally I think Hbox should be 2nd) it might effect mango's rank. I may be completely wrong in this and I will research it when I can. Mango has had his worst year in recent memory. With him not placing below 3rd in anything last year to now having problems getting to top 3 in majors. if you average his placings i think they might be relatively close to people like m2k putting his rank up to question. Right now if you weigh consistency over wins I think Mango should be in the 5th spot.

*This is the average placing of all the tournaments they have attended this year*

m2k-3.06

Mango-4

 

[Dolla Pills]

I was think about the effect of puting Hbox over leffen for the 2nd spot on the miom ranking (Which personally I think Hbox should be 2nd) it might effect mango's rank. I may be completely wrong in this and I will research it when I can. Mango has had his worst year in recent memory. With him not placing below 3rd in anything last year to now having problems getting to top 3 in majors. if you average his placings i think they might be relatively close to people like m2k putting his rank up to question. Right now if you weigh consistency over wins I think Mango should be in the 5th spot.

*This is the average placing of all the tournaments they have attended this year*

m2k-3.06

Mango-4

Here are the reasons I wouldn't put m2k above mango:

Mango won two large events and BAM, m2k only won Pax which was fairly small
Mango has a better set count against the other top players: up against Leffen, even with Hbox, and negative versus Armada but he has taken 2 sets this year (INY and WTFox) which is more than m2k has taken lifetime vs Armada. As for the head to head I think mango is up a set or two but that might be wrong.
Neither of them are super consistent, but mango at least usually outplaces m2k (with Big House and obviously HTC being the exceptions). Mango has dropped a few more sets to non top players though (10-11 vs m2k's 8-9 if I am counting correctly).

And you included tournament placings in your data, but that's going to skew the data in favor of m2k as he has gone to a lot more of the smaller events where he is bound to do well. That's why I tried to keep it to "majors."

 

[FEOwain]

Unpopular opinion: I think Plup is 10th due to consistency issues

 

[FEOwain]

Here are the reasons I wouldn't put m2k above mango:

Mango won two large events and BAM, m2k only won Pax which was fairly small
Mango has a better set count against the other top players: up against Leffen, even with Hbox, and negative versus Armada but he has taken 2 sets this year (INY and WTFox) which is more than m2k has taken lifetime vs Armada. As for the head to head I think mango is up a set or two but that might be wrong.
Neither of them are super consistent, but mango at least usually outplaces m2k (with Big House and obviously HTC being the exceptions). Mango has dropped a few more sets to non top players though (10-11 vs m2k's 8-9 if I am counting correctly).

And you included tournament placings in your data, but that's going to skew the data in favor of m2k as he has gone to a lot more of the smaller events where he is bound to do well. That's why I tried to keep it to "majors."

Mew2King has lost to 5 non top 6 players and Mango has lost to 7.

M2K: Silent Wolf, Colbol, Axe, Shroomed, Wobbles

Mango: DruggedFox, MacD, Fiction, Westballz, Plup, Shroomed, Axe

 

[Dolla Pills]

Mew2King has lost to 5 non top 6 players and Mango has lost to 7.

M2K: Silent Wolf, Colbol, Axe, Shroomed, Wobbles

Mango: DruggedFox, MacD, Fiction, Westballz, Plup, Shroomed, Axe

Here's my list:

M2K: 9 (Shroomed, Wobbles x2, Axe x4, Colbol, Silent Wolf)

Mango: 11 (Plup x2, Fiction, Axe, Shroomed, Westballz x4, Drugged Fox, MacD)

But I said set losses, not just the number of players they lost to, so that's why my number is higher. I said 10-11 because idk if Mango was sandbagging vs Fiction or not (I don't count obvious sandbags) and 8-9 because I don't know if I included the set between m2k and axe at MLG.

In any case these records are fairly close and both on the lower end of the top six spectrum.

Edit:
Nvm I hadn't counted it. It's 9

 

[FEOwain]

But I said set losses, not just the number of players they lost to, so that's why my number is higher. I said 10-11 because idk if Mango was sandbagging vs Fiction or not (I don't count obvious sandbags) and 8-9 because I don't know if I included the set between m2k and axe at MLG.

Now that makes more sense

 

[PJB]

1. Armada
2. Hbox
3. Leffen
4. Mango
5. M2K
6. PPMD
7. Plup
8. Westballz
9. Axe
10. Shroomed
11. Silent Wolf
12. Lucky
13. PPU
14. Sfat
15. MacD

Would need to do more research to accurately rank beyond there.

 

[FEOwain]

11. Silent Wolf

I feel you're overrating Otto a bit. I can't see him being above Lucky, PewPewU, or SFAT, so I'd probably give him around 14th.
However his performance at NWMDZ and HTC Throwdown were insane. He has wins over Shroomed, PewPewU, SFAT, MacD, DruggedFox, Mew2King, and so nearly Armada. Dude's really good but doesn't have enough results for me to justify him being higher. Still insanely good though.