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Mind Over Meta #35 - Respect

LiteralGrill

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Mind Over Meta is a weekly series of articles on /r/SSBPM, the Project M subreddit. Written by several different authors, this series covers many of the mental aspects of playing smash and other subjects related specifically to Project M. This week user orangegluon wrote about respect. The original article can be found here. To read the rest of the series check out the Mind Over Meta Archive. Sit down, read, and enjoy.

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Hi everyone, we’re back this week with another Mind Over Meta. This week, I’d like to do a sort of two-in-one, firstly talking about an aspect of the game that dominates both neutral and punish game in Project M and Smash in general, and secondly talking about something I’ve noticed plaguing the community around Project M and Smash at large. This is an article I have meant to put together for a long time and am finally gathering enough thoughts to do it.

This week, let’s talk about respect.

This Land is Your Land This Land is My Land

It’s pretty common to hear people talking about respecting characters in the Project M community. However, it’s less common to hear what exactly they mean by that.

To put it in simple, rough terms, respecting an opponent means doing two things together:
  • Acknowledging an opponent’s potential options to hit you with attacks or avoid your own in a scenario
  • Taking measures to avoid allowing your opponent to hit you with those options or avoid missing moves
That’s all it tends to boil down to. But we need to take a closer look at these statements, because there’s a surprising amount of detail packed into these two simple bullet points.

What does it mean to acknowledge your opponent’s options? It generally means that you understand where your opponent could put out hitboxes in relatively short amounts of time, and what the consequences of those hitboxes could be. In short, it’s about understanding what space the opponent controls. As Sethlon puts it in is Roy guide, "Every character in the game has a space that they control, and a space where they work their best magic."

This space of control is what you need to respect in Smash and be aware of. But because there are a large variety (an understatement!) of different kinds of moves in Project M, there are consequently a lot of types of space control.

I like to refer back to Sethlon’s Roy guide a lot to talk about threat zones in Smash. This particular scenario seems like a very standard and traditional neutral-game situation threat zones. In this picture, Sethlon labels spaces that, in this example, Metaknight can place attacks based on how committal the attacks there would be; red indicates places where powerful or combo-starting moves could land, black is where weaker or less capitalizable moves might land, and yellow is where Metaknight can put out attacks, maybe aerials or a dash grab, but only at the cost of commitment or vulnerability in the form of startup, endlag, or stringent timing/positioning. Additionally, the options available to Metaknight vary between when he is running, in the air, standing, crouching, etc.

Roy has lot of options in this picture. He could run in headstrong, no holds barred, and swing the sword for an f-smash. However, most of you could probably tell me that this will be a bad idea. Why is this? Because Roy’s f-smash leaves him vulnerable to a lot of Metaknight’s options; Metaknight can easily back away or spotdodge or shield the attack and swiftly nail a grab, dtilt, down smash, or something else painful. Or possibly worse, Metaknight can intercept by pushing attacks in his yellow zone before Roy can use the forward smash. Our young boy Roy has no understanding of Metaknight’s threat zones. He just wants to go in and slash away recklessly. Naturally, we can expect him to fall prey to a crafty Metaknight’s wily movement tricks and baits and punishes.

Range of different moves and movement are what define threat zones in the neutral game, and due to the high paced nature of Project M, following this movement is challenging but possible. Dash dancing is a powerful tool in both adjusting to your own threat zones and reacting to changes in your opponent’s. And understanding how your opponent’s threats change dynamically as they run, shield, jump, and retreat are crucial to properly respecting your opponent.

For example, one big reason Squirtle is such a potent and frustrating character in Project M is because his movement affords him the ability to quickly approach and retreat, running circles around opponents. His slippery movement is like a bar of soap, and if the opponent squeezes too hard, the soap will slip out of their hand and bonk them in the eye with hydrograbs, slingjump aerials, and withdraw combos. Respecting these options requires knowing what Squirtle can do at any given time and preparing to counter his insane movement range by clashing with Squirtle’s relatively short hitbox ranges, or by punishing his fairly committal withdraw attack, smash attacks, or whiffed grabs. This means affording adequate space to react to his movement in the neutral game.

It is easy to fall into repetitive traps, when your player has you figured out to the “T.” Failing to space your approaches correctly will get you repeatedly caught in smash attacks, grabs, or easy edgeguards by repeatedly failing to take steps in respecting your opponent’s attacks.

Hit Me, I Dare You

But respect doesn’t end at the neutral game. It extends to nearly every part of the game, particularly when on defense. In Project M, there are far more defensively oriented viable characters than in Melee, and as a consequence it is of paramount importance to learn how to respect these defensive options. In both Melee and Project M, one classic example of such a scenario is the up-B out of shield, a move Bowser is infamous for, and one which characters like Link and Samus use to great effect. Bowser, whose mobility and speed leave something to be desired, is a highly defensive and reactive, rather than proactive, character in Melee and Project M. As a consequence, he must often sit in shield and let the opponent try to attack him, and punish their careless offensives with a quick up-B out of sheild to tack on surprising damage and possibly leave the opponent vulnerable and regretful. These are moves to escape from pressure, and inattentive opponents will find themselves repeatedly frustrated by sudden ends to their attempts at shield pressure, grabs, and baits. Defensive punishes extend to more than shield options, though.

Using crouch cancels to one’s advantage is very common in Project M. Characters like Samus, ROB, Peach, Roy, and Mario are notorious for their use of tools like crouch-canceled downsmashes. By inviting the opponent to strike them, they can turn the tides of offense quickly with swift reactions. The principle is the same as with out-of-shield options. Characters like Luigi and Samus are also known for their quick combo-breaking neutral-airs, which can even punish opponents in the middle of the opponent’s combo for being too greedy. So powerful are these against unsuspecting combo-attempters that they’re dubbed “fun-killer nairs.” Trades or quick disjointed moves of any kind can have this effect.

Why do so many players, even experienced ones at high level like in this Melee set between Fiction and Eddy Mexico, see combos ended young this way, through falling into bad attack trades or defensive traps? As Liquid`Chillindude notes here, it is a lack of respect. In this specific clip, Fiction did not respect the sheer speed with which Luigi can counter attacks out of hitstun, and finds himself beaten up as a result. This happens frequently against Luigis in Melee and in Project M; players who do not take care to avoid rogue nairs, tilts, and jabs will quickly become lost in sudden turn-of-tide combo reversals, often leading to lost stocks. As a wise player once told me, “you need to take what you can get and run with it.” Over-aggressive players often find themselves repeatedly beaten out by the same punishments; avoiding this is a measure of exercising greater caution during combos and neutral game, taking careful note of what the opponent’s punishment capabilities are.

Respecting offensive options can also come in different forms, often matchup specific. Respecting a Link’s projectiles, for example, could come in the form of avoiding middle ranges, where boomerangs or bombs could hit you and open up combo opportunities for the Link. Or perhaps using a character with a reflector to push projectiles back to the sender, acknowledging that they are indeed a threat and directly dealing with them in a simple way.

But there is more to respect than just not rushing in headstrong; if you do not react at all and play overdefensively, you often find yourself punished too. This quick recent clip from a match between COG MVG | Mew2king and Tweek in Melee highlights this principle. Mew2king, unsure of how to react, fails to respect Luigi’s movement and potential for his sudden high-powered Shoryuken kill move. This clip shows that, primarily, defensive play is not always the safest bet, and secondarily that even the greatest professionals struggle to understand their opponents well. But understanding opponents is a tricky thing.

From New Eyes

A player who has no respect for an opponent’s options or movement capabilities is thusly doomed to failure because they cannot see past their own point of view.

Understanding threat zones, especially in a game with 41 viable characters, is an exceptionally daunting task. However, this can be made easier a few ways. First, one can take time to understand other characters. Playing a variety of opponents helps tremendously, as one can see what is threatening and what is not simply by trial-and-error. Secondly, playing as those characters and experimenting will teach you about what is easy and difficult to do in a match, and therefore what you ought to look out for. In the Fiction vs. Eddy Mexico from earlier, we see foreknowledge help tremendously, as Fiction shows a good understanding of Luigi’s hitstun timings and vulnerabilities during combos.

Learning the game is tremendously helpful toward being able to effectively respect opponents. Without any clue as to what is dangerous and what is not, a player is totally unable to respect opponents properly, as they don’t know what to avoid or what its ranges are. This is a primary reason inexperienced Melee players often suffer in Project M; without proper time invested in the game, they have difficulty understanding what characters can do and thus are overwhelmed. However, many players who primarily play Melee still perform well. Is there a secret to their success?

It could be wagered that such players are simply good at adaptation. However, you can be too. In terms of respecting opponents, one piece of strange advice I can offer is to try to watch the game from your opponent’s eyes.

What is my foe doing to encroach my space? What am I not respecting enough in his threat ranges? And why are my attempts to play aggressively cut short? These are the types of questions that help me see the game from an opponent’s perspective. I often ask myself questions like, “what would this opposing Lucas want to do right now? What is his short term goal?” This is easier to think about if it’s reworded as “if I had this guy’s playstyle and technical abilities, what would I want to do right now?” And by considering what options the opponent has at his or her disposal, you can think about what are the likely threats you would impose and therefore what the opponent might try.

In this way you can often also see the limitations of your opponent and pick up their habits. The idea is to let you be more receptive to picking up patterns as well as realizing what it is you’re losing to. I played a match in tournament once against a player who used projectiles extensively from far away at safe distance. I was not respecting those projectiles, and found myself repeatedly smashing into them face-first. I realized that in his situation I would also camp hard and let smartly placed projectiles do the work for me, and using this information I was able to both relate to my opponent and capitalize on the same type of weakness I might have in the same situation; that is, strong discomfort with reflected projectiles and quick conservative-but-rushdown combos. It turned out that just understanding the opponent on a human level helped me gain a significant edge in the match and learn to respect the opponent better. And similarly, I imagine that my opponent could see through my play in a similar way, by using crouch cancels liberally to combat my (by this point predictable) offensives, a form of respecting my burst-heavy playstyle.

The key point in respecting opponents’ options is being aware of what the opponent likes to do and not losing heart or focus when you fall victim. Every single time you get hit, don’t get flustered. Don’t get upset. Take it as a chance to learn. “Hey, if I misspace this dair stomp, Peach will d-smash me and hit me with a blender. I should watch out for that.” Adapt to the opponent’s threats a bit at a time, and take every mistake as a learning opportunity to improve mid-match.

Disrespect

It seems appropriate to take some time to talk about the converse of respect: disrespect

Now that we have talked a bit about respecting opponents in-game for a while, it seems appropriate to give a few words on disrespect.

Disrespecting opponents means going out of your way to do dangerous things for the purpose of sending a clear message: “I am better than you.” Great players like Bizzarro Flame or Professor Pro are known for this type of behavior. Other players aren’t.

To properly disrespect your opponent, it requires confidence and assurance. Usually, disrespect in this way requires good predictions or reads. Take time to understand your opponent’s detailed habits and characteristic reactions to certain situations before you attempt risky stunts like these. It is also highly advised you attempt disrespect toward players who can take it well; building enemies for the sake of the crowd is probably not a great idea overall. In general, smarter and more conservative play is probably more worthwhile.

Unless you are in a crucial match, and breaking your opponent’s mental game by playing disrespectfully is a necessity for victory. Then by all means, go ahead if you can pull it off. Disrespecting opponents by landing hits through all normal intuition and without regard for danger is a great way to goad opponents into attempting the same, whether out of frustration or ego or desperation, at which point you can capitalize on their dumb mistakes and gain an even larger advantage. In this way, playing stupidly can turn out to really be a way of playing very cleverly. After all, the player that wins out in the end is often the one who can keep their mental game stronger! As I’ve said before, in tournament games your goal is to take the victory.

Respect in the Community

I’d like to take a moment to talk about another kind of respect, one which I’ve seen become relevant in the last few months.

The Smash community is often plagued with vitriolic comments and negativity. This is not exclusive to Smash, and is certainly widespread through the internet. Typically these attitudes arise from disagreements and arguments on the internet. Project M is no exception, and it’s inevitable that you will have disagreements with other people of all backgrounds, on points as large as whether Bomberman is a good character for Super Smash Bros to fine points like the details of Fox’s balance adjustments. These arguments take place between Melee players and Project M players, Smash 4 players and Melee players, and even between two Project M players. No community is really safe from this phenomenon.

However, I still have hope of the Project M community becoming a better and more civil place than it is now, even through disagreements.

A philosophical tangent: What is the point of an argument? In my view, as well as others’, arguments are to settle disputes and discover truth. This takes a degree of respect for others, particularly people you may disagree with. While this is hard to do oftentimes, I think there are some small steps here and there people can take toward being respectful online and offline.

When I argue with people, I do so for the purpose of learning. This keeps me focused on content and observing new points, instead of being so invested in my own arguments that I fail to consider what others might have to say. Indeed, simply listening is a huge step toward reasonable discussions. When others disagree with you, if one party is unable to really consider the others’ points and understand them fully, it immediately closes discussion. Arguments are two-way roads, and if one road is blocked, you end up in a traffic jam. Just as helping see a Project M match from your opponent’s perspective helps you improve, seeing someone’s position on an argument in an honest way does as well, and helps you even see where you or the other party may be wrong. Aristotle purportedly once said, “the mark of an educated mind is to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” Be an educated mind.

Making your arguments clear and sensible is important too. Lots of internet arguments, including those about Smash games, are littered with poor fallacious reasoning. One common logic trap is “ad hominem” attacks, in which the speaker is questioned rather than the content of their argument; often this is in the form of trying to discredit arguments as simply resulting from bias. Issues with a loss of civility while arguing often stems from this type of reaction. Other common traps include “strawmen,” in which you misrepresent what someone’s argument is, “correlation implies causation,” in which a cause-effect relationship is erroneously inferred between two events, and “appeal to authority,” in which someone uses a high-standing person’s opinion to shut down debate, “bandwagons,” in which ideas are thought correct because they are the majority opinion, and “ambiguity,” in which a word’s meaning is used in multiple ways in a way that obscures real interaction on equal levels from both sides of an argument. Please, in your argumentation, be aware of not only pointing out when others make these mistakes, but when you fall prey to these arguments too.

This leads to my next point; when you find yourself arguing with others, it is very easy to get caught up trying to convince the other side that you are correct. However, it may, just maybe, possibly be potentially the case that you are not right about every opinion you have regarding Smash. Typically, I find that when I am in this position, it is because I feel personally invested in my arguments. What a silly idea, being so dependent upon being correct on the internet, where people hardly know who you are and reputations are transient! Pride can get tangled in “victory” of an argument very easily, and as a result, people tend to lose sight of the purpose of arguing: to learn and collectively attempt to find a good answer to a question. I ask you to stay humble, admit when you may be wrong or when others may have a good point, and keep in mind that many issues of opinions are complex and not easily solved by a single opinion or another.

While I can’t teach anyone how to argue or think about arguing, I hope this general overview of some issues I believe exist is enough to help toward more productive online conversations. But sometimes being informed isn’t enough to facilitate good discussions; sometimes there are simply people who refuse to participate in a learning-orientated argument, for issues as simple and mundane as a question of frame data to something as lofty as whether Project M is a worthwhile game. Not everyone can be reasoned with, and not everyone is receptive to properly arguing. In these cases, it is often just to leave the conversation open and not waste your time. If you feel a conversation will not lead to a productive resolution, you are always allowed leave the argument open.

I think simply being aware of the common pratfalls in internet discussions will help to lead to more informative arguments and, by extension, a more educated Project M community as a whole.

Final Remarks

Respecting your opponent is difficult in a lot of senses. The game is fast, and staying aware of microchanges in spacing and the opponents’ available options is surprisingly demanding. It takes a lot out of you. A lot of what I said seems pretty obvious, but it’s surprising that there are so many people who don’t utilize it, so I thought it at least bears reiteration. But learning to properly respect opponents will hopefully bring you all the more success, in game and on the internet.

We’ll see you next week. Take care -- Mind Over Meta Writing Team.

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SmashCapps hopes readers enjoy these articles as he always finds them well thought out and insightful. To keep up with his own writing adventures be sure to follow him on Twitter.
 
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Rooting_Wires

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Boy... I wish that the DK player would've landed that.
Also, first. Insert dank Melee Hell meme here.
 
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SpandexBullets

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thespandex
You made a few paragraphs about problems in the community regarding respect, and you sort of implied how it presents problems when left unquestioned. Really would've been the opportune time to mention how this effects women in the community....
 

LiteralGrill

Smokin' Hot~
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You made a few paragraphs about problems in the community regarding respect, and you sort of implied how it presents problems when left unquestioned. Really would've been the opportune time to mention how this effects women in the community....
I didn't write this, read the beginning of the article. I just feature them here.
 

SpandexBullets

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thespandex
I didn't write this, read the beginning of the article. I just feature them here.
Sorry, I though mind over meta made articles that are were exclusive to SB and as such would moderate some, but my mistake.
 

badangadang

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
121
Sorry, I though mind over meta made articles that are were exclusive to SB and as such would moderate some, but my mistake.
Several people, including me, make them for reddit.com/r/ssbpm, and SmashCapps is extremely gracious in rehosting them here to widen the range of people they can influence. I'm really glad he chooses to share it on Smashboards.

In regards to women in Project M, I thought of talking about IRL interactions during that section, but realized several things.
1) I don't know enough about how minorities, including/in particular women, interact in the Project M community.
2) I was trying to focus pretty closely on the idea of arguing/debating online, since it is usually a useless endeavor but often unavoidable because no one can control members of a community en masse, and it often is a necessary evil.
3) In that context, respect for members of the community in person was, strangely enough, kind of neither here nor there with what I wanted to talk about.
4) I have not seen any real issues about IRL respect for members in the Project M scenes I've witnessed based on anything but skill in Smash, aside from some very select annoying members who try to get a rise out of people (these are just random exceptions for the purpose of being exceptions, and I ignore them accordingly). If I don't see much negativity, there's not a lot I can comment on.

Almost certainly, discriminations of various kinds must be an issue, but it's largely not what I wanted to discuss here. We did, somewhat briefly, talk about respecting members of the community in this article https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/3d210o/mind_over_meta_27_running_events/ but it was largely just as a caution, because I try to avoid opening cans of tangential worms too widely when I'm trying to focus on certain topics (probably not that believable, given that my articles can almost come off as sporadic sometimes, at least in initial drafts).
 

badangadang

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
121
*mains a low tier character*
*instant disrespect*
Smash Community in a nutshell.
:p
I've seen both sides of this. A lot of the times, higher level players will tell others that they're simply wasting their time by playing not-fox-falco-sheik-marth, but overwhelmingly I've seen a lot of support and encouragement from strangers by playing Luigi for years; remember that people like to see low-tier-heroes do well.

Play who you want to play, ignore negativity, and just enjoy yourself. If your goal is to be the best, you'll need to evaluate your character carefully, especially in a game like Melee, and see if that choice will lead toward your goal in the best way. Otherwise, have fun, it's a goddamn party game.
 

Mr. Oshawott

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
117
About time someone decided to bring up the issues of vitriol within the Smash community. Here's hoping people that read the the last part of this article will really take its words to heart.
 
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