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Mind giving me some advice? =D

kenkaga

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
8
Alright I am not new to the world of Pokemon. I have been around since Yellow =P Then again I think everyone here has as well. I am currently in the middle of a challenge that was posed to me at school by some of my peers. We are to gather a lvl 70 team of Pokemon, and duke it out in a 2 on 2 Pearl Vs Diamond battle.

What I am asking is, would you guys have some ideas for a good team? As it stands ( And I know I have ways to go before I get there) These are some of my best pokemon as of right now:

Torterra Lvl 36
Gyarados Lvl 29
Combusken Lvl 31
Pidgeotto Lvl 28
Luxray lvl 32
Snorlax Lvl 30
Machamp Lvl 28
Gengar Lvl 39


I am really open to suggestions here, because I have never really done much PvP and I would love to be able to get a team which is well balanced and can do some damage. I know for a fact that one of the players I am gonna be facing relies on Pokemon with really high attack stats. I know of his Mr Mime and Aerodactyl, as well as the fully evolved form of Pilup. His partner has the fully evolved form of Chimchar and is planning on getting a Ralts.

Any advice would really, really help. Also, We are not to use legendaries. Thanks in advance! =D It is much appreciated.

My friend code: 0859 9853 6394
 

Metadour-2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
198
Location
Orlando, FL
muhahahaha...advice? my specialty. (sometimes...) i'd love to help those in need, so i answer you modestly...lol.


ok, well, first i need to know what you know. do you know about EV'? what about battle roles? DVs or IVs (whatever you prefer to call them)? if you don't, you might not get what i say below. if you don't get what i say below, just ask, but this is critical advice...and if you don't get what i say below, you don't know this game half of what you think you do.

lemme give you basic info Gyra is awesome, i personally prefer a DD-dos, jolly nature to seperate it from those choice scarfers and speed runners...I'd run with aquatail for good STAB, waterfall if you don't like aquatails accuracy, stone edge is an option, although that 80% accuracy is questionable the damage, critical hit ratio, and type coverage is too good to pass up, and that move coupled with earthquake begs for some serious damage. The synergy that rock and ground type moves have is amazing, rock will cover up the whole that earthquake leaves with flying types, steel types will answer to what your stone edge couldnt cover with earthquake, etc...
And of course, DD-dos isn't DD-dos without dragon dance. I'd dump a max ev spread into attack and spd and throw the rest at hp.

and torterra does a real bang up job too. I guess you could use him as your physical wall. Earthquake is a given. STAB plus good type coverage plus high ATK power =YES! Now here comes the indecision. Stone Edge or wood hammer...wood hammer gets stab plus it hits REALLY hard, but that recoil is somethin you gotta watch, plus grass and ground synergy aint to hot. they both hit rock, grass hits water good if that's what you need, but ground hits those ****ed steel types which is generally more useful. stone egde aint got that stab or that power but it's got great synergy with quake and hence it is a lot more useful. whatever you need. those last two slots will be filled with leech seed (if you want synthesis, fine, but i say leech seed because, 1, it drains hp from the oppponent fast, and that builds over time, and since torterra will be in the game for awhile with it's high defense and hp, it'll show it's power quickly, and 2, synthesis only recovers 1/3 hp in bad weather...and with ttar being more popular than ever, the introduction of hippowdon and abbomasnow, clear skies aint happenin.) and most likely stealth rock, but if you want to ditch stealth rock for stone egdge and woodhammer in the same set, be my guest. you could use rock polish with torterra, but torterra's got better things to do than sit around and set up for a sweep.

Blaziken will do a wonderful job. Once again, jolly nature...make it hold salac berry or shell bell to make up for flare blitz recoil. As for movesets...Flare Blitz is a given, just watch your usage, sky uppercut, and since stone edge blends so well with fighting type moves, you could use that, or risk earthquake if your double battle partner is a levitator/flying type. Evs are the same as Dos, full AT and SP. use it as a late game sweeper...eliminate all foes who can overcome blaziken, get a pokemon that can do the heavy lifting for it (i.e. paralysis support, toxic support or roar for forced switches, light screen/reflect, safeguard, etc.) and use swords dance...then sweep for straight OHKO's (hopefully)

pidgeot's horrible. its got a weird typing, stats are below average, shallow move pool, no good solid battle role that some other far superior pokemon couldn't handle...

snorlax'll get the job done on a regular basis. Your going to want to watch it's defense...it's special defense coupled with it's monstrous hp make it a beast, but it's rather lower defense presents a hole. best used as a special sponge. run a good recovery move with it...leftover item is a must, unless you want the rest/chesto berry combo. you could go with the sleep talker set...rest/sleeptalk/earthquake/return or body slam (the reason why i say or is that return hits for a max of 100 base power and gets STAB, but body slam hits for only 80 however it has paralysis support, so it just comes down to preference.) you could also run a curse lax but i think that's become more of a novelty this generation.

machamp with no guard is amazing. dynamic punch is a sold STAB w/ confusion as a bonus. Stone edge hits hard and has good synergy w/ fighting and ground if you hit with quake, but it's all up to choice: you can remove quake or edge for some other move if you want, but have at least one. you could run machamp as a sleep talker, but that's up to choice. fill up those empty slots with your imagination, eh?

gengar's lovely for absorbing those stupid fighting type hard hitters and exploding metagrosses, so i absolutely love it. unfortunately the only defensive pokemon you've got here is Lax, so i'd suggest a physical wall since you've got lax as a special, but whatever. Gengar SHOULDN'T RUN with sludge bomb....yeah it gets stab but poisons offensive cababilities are horrid. it hardly hits any types for supper effecctive damage and is resisted by many, and the ever popular steel types don't take any damgage from it. Shadow ball is all the stab you'll ever need. couple that with mean look and toxic to make it a sold toxi-trapper, and if you want you can run a haze on it (who doesn't love that move) or taunt, protect, whatever you need most on your team.
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
Playing melee and smash ultimate
Max spd gyara? Er... I don't think so. I wouldn't give it more than 222 spd, to outspeed ttar. With perfect IVs and adamant, that's 96 EVs.

Personally, I like torterra as a curser, although SR looks pretty viable.

Oh, wait.... this is for a double battle? Metadour, your suggestions are for single battles, mostly, and until I noticed that it was a double battle, myself, I had no idea (what? I initially came in here, saw you just listed pokemon, and decided to try to expand upon what was already said).

Ok, now that that's out of the way, welcome to cheap doubles tactics 101. Class has started.

First off, double explosion is a deadly stat in doubles. Or... it was in adv. Not so sure about that in d/p, but I'm sure it still holds potency, although I'm not so sure the concept is really "double" explosion anymore. Since pokemon are no longer sent in immediately after being killed, you are no longer able to kill 3-4 pokemon on turn one. However, a single explosion with your partner protecting will deal some major damage to your foes. A common staple of explosion teams is a reversaler (lucario will be perfect for this job), which carries endure and a salac berry, and proceeds to wreak havoc after an explosion. You'll have to experiment a bit for yourself, but because lucario is steel type, it should be able to take a weaker explosion, which is where you will have the ability to swords dance. The following turn is when you use endure (at this point they will likely be attacking you, anyway, as you have both low hp and an sd up, so it works out rather well). If you think you can kill both pokemon on your opponent's side with only reversal and an attack from one of your other pokes, do it, then do another endure/explosion the next turn, and continue as such. Choice Band on one or two, and Life Orb on the rest will be excellent items for your pokemon, seeing as the CB provides pure power, whereas the LO will allow you to vary your actions a bit before going off, which is critical on a pokemon like gengar, who will want to hopefully kill something with a tbolt or shadow ball first, and some of the more fragile boomers will have to protect, rather than just take the hit like gengar and metagross can.

Double intimidate is also highly potent. It makes most physical attackers nigh worthless, and easily picked apart, particularly if you lead with a team like Gyarados/Salamence, which can then double earthquake (provided your foe doesn't have a flier). Depending on the poke, you may want either CB or LO. Something like tauros without a lot a of diversity will enjoy being able to CB Return, however something like mence would prefer a Life Orb, since it wants to be able to switch moves.

Now, I should mention the importance of the move protect in a double battle. If you suspect your foe will be taking two attacks toward one of your pokemon, a simple protect will waste your opponent's turn, while you still get to attack with your partner pokemon. Also, if you expect an explosion from your opponent, a double protect will remedy the situation quite nicely. Although messing up with your protects can cost you the match.

Weather teams are extremely potent in uber battles, but since you don't have access to Groudon/Kyorge, I wouldn't bother.

A newer tactic which has come to light because of DP is abuse of the move Trick Room. Essentially, all of your pokemon should be super slow, preferably with speed reducing natures. On turn one, you have one pokemon use the move Trick Room, then just **** with everything else you have, which are all very slow, very powerful (probably very sturdy) pokemon. Rhyperior is a choice pokemon for this kind of team. You can combine this fairly easily with the explosion tactic outlined above, just be sure to leave out the reversaler (unless you want to use one with very low speed, of course, which would also work fairly well). In fact, now that I think about it, a slow reversaler on a trick room team would be extremely deadly, as you'd be able to use a liechi berry as your held item. I'd imagine something like Hariyama would fit the bill nicely, just be sure to min speed it (when EV training focus on Atk and SDef, as you want to make sure it drops to 1 HP when you use endure). Once again, pretty much everything else should have LO or CB (or Choice Specs, since there are slow SAtkers). Consider having two trick room pokes on the same team, since you'll need to send in the TRer again midway through the battle to revitalize the effect, and let's face it... switching sucks in doubles. Everything is SO offensive that it's difficult to do without taking a large amount of damage.

Well, that's pretty much it. I covered some of the biggest, most deadly strategies I know of in 2v2. As I'm sure you've noticed, many can overlap, and I'd like to make it clear that this is not all there is. However, you'd have to talk to someone who regularly plays 2v2 to find out about some of the more intricate strats that go on in a 2v2 battle, and how effective each one is.

Oh, and as one last thing... I mentioned having most of your pokes hold Life Orb as an item. I'm aware this item is hard to come by, and I'm not even sure where you get it (I'm not too far in DP, myself). Once you get one LO, you can practice the cloning glitch, then use it after you've gotten good with it to obtain multiples.
 

kenkaga

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
8
Wow, the terminology amazes me xD I can figure out most of it though. I can see where your going with your stradegy Leafgreen as well as yours Meta. They both seem to pwn face =D. I use to go to competitions back in the yellow days, and the winner used to be the one with the most raw power, I can see that principle is no longer applicable (Besides in a small town, you do't get a chance to play really anyone). I'll do my best to rework my team according to some of the advice given. I am thinking of possibly switching out my Luxray for a Jolteon OR Raichu to add more speed and perhaps a Steelix for another sponge, though I'm REALLY iffy on Steelix. I am thinking of a Glaceon as well. I've heard it's Sp Atk is pretty awesome. Either way, thanks for the help, I am still open to any and all advice =D
 

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
Playing melee and smash ultimate
Ok, let me explain doubles a bit more, and I don't think I touched on certain points well enough.

See, in doubles, there isn't really such thing as a wall. Pretty much everything sweeps or supports so that you can sweep. The main thing that will serve as your "wall" is the move protect. Dusclops (now dusknoir), although it is very defensive, is rarely used except for the use of imprison (which I forgot to mention as a viable strategy). Generally clops/noir will carry earthquake, protect, imprison, and a fourth move of the user's choice (the more common the move among opponents and harder it is for your team to stop, the better). Stopping your foe from using those moves can greatly inhibit their strategy, and set you up for a sweep. In fact, I feel stupid for not mentioning this before, but dusclops/noir would be great on an explosion team (if your opponents are smart, of course, and actually use protect).

Now, I said there are no walls. But there are tanks. Pokemon such as rhyperior and metagross (and as an example, suicune on the special side, although you can't use it), or snorlax in the case of taking special attacks are great for being able to dish out huge amounts of damage, but can take it, too. Anything and everything on a doubles team should ultimately focus on KOing your opponent as fast as possible. That is why you don't see many skarmory on doubles teams... it doesn't do much for the team in terms of setting up for a kill, or killing. It's a great singles pokemon, though.

I'll post more later. I've gotta sleep. lol
 

Metadour-2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
198
Location
Orlando, FL
yeah, leafgreen totally expanded on what i said. and hell no, raw power means nearly nothing anymore. i'm sorry, i did make quite a few mistakes in my writin, and thanx lots for leafgreen for fixin em, i owe ya, but i kinda expected you to fix my stuff anyway. if you can get gyra to outspeed ttar without jolly, fine by me, but it was never easy to get max DVs without cheating. although it is imperative that gyra outrun those pokemon, speed is of the essence with a sweeper.

i love double intimidate. although its not too good for opening, against total noobs i love to swarm em with gyra/mence combo, not to mention they get earthquake invulnerablity. however if you're at all smart a good rock move will pay a hefty toll to either team mate, so i usually just do it to shut up those idiots who rely on heavy power sweeper teams (physical of course) and shut em out quick.

cheah, ducknoir on an explosion team is pretty critical. the ability to survive an explosion (and by that i mean take no damage) is pretty key...

hey, leafgreen, what i would like to hear is a few more pokemon that you think work well in singles but not doubles and so forth. that kinda thing. i never really thought about that, o wise one. lol.



OH AND LEAFGREEN. Life orb is on Mount stark, after you beat the elite four...it's around that area. i believe you will need rock climb to obtain it, if i remember correctly that's how i got it.
 

Metadour-2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
198
Location
Orlando, FL

leafgreen386

Dirty camper
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
3,577
Location
Playing melee and smash ultimate
@Kenkanga: Jolt or chu would definitely be an improvement over luxray. Its actually got a stronger tbolt than it does spark/tfang, even though its got a much higher attack than satk, and only 80 base speed kinda sucks, especially for an electric. Chu has worse attacking stats, but with just barely worse satk than luxray, the speed easily makes up for it. Jolt can do massive damage with its tbolt and is extremely fast, although if you don't have access to hidden power, its movepool can be a little limited. Glaceon also suffers from the movepool issue, so meh. Steelix should do nicely.

yeah, leafgreen totally expanded on what i said.
Er... was that sarcasm?

and hell no, raw power means nearly nothing anymore.
What are you talking about? This is the most offensive metagame since rby, and doubles has always been an offensive metagame. Combine the two, and all of a sudden matches are ending in a couple of turns. The only thing they've done to slow doubles is the lack of pokemon getting sent in when they're KOed, but that leaves the remaining pokemon left open, anyway.

i'm sorry, i did make quite a few mistakes in my writin, and thanx lots for leafgreen for fixin em, i owe ya, but i kinda expected you to fix my stuff anyway.
Ookaay... I didn't really get that. But.... you're welcome? (Btw, I only read the first two pokemon before I had noticed it's doubles. I probably would've had comments on your others, too... for example, gar... doesn't even work in singles as a toxic-trapper lol)

if you can get gyra to outspeed ttar without jolly, fine by me, but it was never easy to get max DVs without cheating. although it is imperative that gyra outrun those pokemon, speed is of the essence with a sweeper.
Even if gyara has a 0 spd IV, it will still only need 220 EVs to attain 222 spd.

i love double intimidate. although its not too good for opening, against total noobs i love to swarm em with gyra/mence combo, not to mention they get earthquake invulnerablity. however if you're at all smart a good rock move will pay a hefty toll to either team mate, so i usually just do it to shut up those idiots who rely on heavy power sweeper teams (physical of course) and shut em out quick.
Yeah, but most rock moves are physical. In adv, aero was the main concern, with the fast rock slide (although I never found that to be all that terrifying, since it's essentially got the strength of a neutral 77 power attack coming off of 462 atk. In DP, though, there's stone edge, so yeah, it's probably harder to lead that way, now.

cheah, ducknoir on an explosion team is pretty critical. the ability to survive an explosion (and by that i mean take no damage) is pretty key...
Either dusknoir or gengar. Gar gets explosion, so it was used more in adv, but with the new and improved imprison, dusknoir will likely become popular.

hey, leafgreen, what i would like to hear is a few more pokemon that you think work well in singles but not doubles and so forth. that kinda thing. i never really thought about that,
Basically, any pokemon that generally offered a support role in singles, but can't give that same kind of support in doubles. Umbreon and Blissey are two other pokemon that immediately come to mind (umbreon moreso than blissey). Most of the pokemon that work well in doubles seem to be at least pretty good in singles.

o wise one. lol.
lol I'm not that good.

OH AND LEAFGREEN. Life orb is on Mount stark, after you beat the elite four...it's around that area. i believe you will need rock climb to obtain it, if i remember correctly that's how i got it.
oic

Btw, you should use the edit button instead of multi-posting.
 

Metadour-2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
198
Location
Orlando, FL
cheah i would stick with jolt, its a great pokemon if the whole speedy thunderbolt is what you're looking for. i never really tried rai, i don't know too much bout him, never considered him a huge threat...maybe i should. but jolteon is a pokemon to be feared i think...

as far as i know luxray's movepool is pretty shallow, but again, i'm not too clear on that. are the onlydecent physical electric moves he gets spark and thunderfang? that's a pretty good stab i guess, but for me if i needed some heavy electric power i'd hand that to another pokemon or some other electric type.

what i meant by the raw power thing is that...well i guess i meant to say it's not THE WHOLE GAME. of course it means something, and there is a lot more offensive strategies coming into play in DP...that whole trick room team. explosive teams....i think specialized teams are going to become more popular. and like LG said, there really are some pokemon that don't do as well in double battles...

was building a solid party ever this hard?
what do you think is essential towards a team, what moves, what battle roles....gah.
it boggles the mind.
 

kenkaga

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
8
Really good advice to consider here. Thanks for the links Meta. I know can attempt to form my party =3 I'll post it in the forums once I have it, see what you guys think =D Thanks again!
 

Metadour-2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
198
Location
Orlando, FL
no problem man. can't wait to see that finished party. Lemme know when it's done and if it's good i'll add you on DP and we can see just how good it is...

lol.
good luck man.
 

jaej

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
273
Location
Omniverse
K..lol

im pretty much a pokemon noob. i just got into the fourth gen bc a couple of my friends played it all the time, so i figured id try it, and i got hooked. the problem is i dont really know that much at all about pokemon. if anyone who knows anything wants to pm me and give me a pokemon crash course or whatever, i would be eternally grateful. lol

Edit: fyi, i have diamond version. in case you cared.
 
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