Mii Gunner Shield Break True Combo (?)

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I'm not ENTIRELY sure if it's a true combo or not, it's hard to test shield combos in training mode. Basically, if you have the missiles side b and charge shot neutral b, firing a super missile immediately followed by a charge shot will break a shield. I've done it at least 5 times now within four matches. Could someone test if this can be avoided? Also is it parryable? Still no idea how parries work tbh.

It's definitely a true combo when it doesn't hit shield, for the record. The opponent is forced to jump, because whether or not they shield they're taking a big hit.. (Rolling into it might also work) If it's true, this is a pretty major reason to take those specials over the others.

 

[SiO2]

Samus can do the same thing, IIRC

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Samus can do the same thing, IIRC

She can do pretty much the same thing, but she has more endlag on her missiles, so it's less effective. Also she can only have 1 missile at a time. It's a much better option for gunner.

 

[Emuchu]

Also is it parryable? Still no idea how parries work tbh.

Ultimate has an 11-frame shield drop animation. The first 5 frames of the shield drop is the parry window. Since it's reliant on when you drop shield and not when you release the button, this means that any sequence of hits with enough shield stun where you can't drop shield is unable to be parried.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Ultimate has an 11-frame shield drop animation. The first 5 frames of the shield drop is the parry window. Since it's reliant on when you drop shield and not when you release the button, this means that any sequence of hits with enough shield stun where you can't drop shield is unable to be parried.

Alright, that's good to know. Now I just need to get someone to help me test if the shieldstun is enough for it to actually be true.

 

[SiO2]

Yeah, it is definitely parryable.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Yeah, it is definitely parryable.

I know it's possible to parry both hits, I mean if it's possible to parry the second after getting hit by the first.

 

[SiO2]

I know it's possible to parry both hits, I mean if it's possible to parry the second after getting hit by the first.

Yes, it is. It happened to me earlier today. Opponent took the full shield damage of the first hit, and parried the second hit.

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

Yes, it is. It happened to me earlier today. Opponent took the full shield damage of the first hit, and parried the second hit.

Not to discredit you or anything, but are you sure you sent the projectiles as close together as possible? That kinda sucks if it's not a true combo. I'll need to get someone to help me test this in training mode.

 

[SiO2]

Not to discredit you or anything, but are you sure you sent the projectiles as close together as possible? That kinda sucks if it's not a true combo. I'll need to get someone to help me test this in training mode.

That, I cannot guarantee.

 

[Emuchu]

I just took this into the lab. Mii Gunner fires a Gunner Super Missile followed by a buffered full Charge Blast. Shielding the Super Missile indeed causes enough shield stun to guarantee the Charge Blast connecting, and instantly breaks shield. However, it only appears to work between 4-12 units in the training stage: any closer or farther and the hits will be spaced far enough apart to allow a shield drop. This distance requirement probably explains SiO2 's observation; they probably tried it on him from too close. Interestingly, I also learned that Gunner Super Missiles have a max range of 13 units... just outside the range of the shield break setup.

With that out of the way, though, now we can concentrate on labbing out the optimal shield break punish! Samus used to have this sick setup in Smash 4 where she dropped a Bomb into her Dair for an IK, but I doubt it'll be that simple this time around, haha.

This has definitely converted me over from Flame Pillar, though! Enjoy!

 

[PokéfreakofBACON]

I just took this into the lab. Mii Gunner fires a Gunner Super Missile followed by a buffered full Charge Blast. Shielding the Super Missile indeed causes enough shield stun to guarantee the Charge Blast connecting, and instantly breaks shield. However, it only appears to work between 4-12 units in the training stage: any closer or farther and the hits will be spaced far enough apart to allow a shield drop. This distance requirement probably explains SiO2 's observation; they probably tried it on him from too close. Interestingly, I also learned that Gunner Super Missiles have a max range of 13 units... just outside the range of the shield break setup.

With that out of the way, though, now we can concentrate on labbing out the optimal shield break punish! Samus used to have this sick setup in Smash 4 where she dropped a Bomb into her Dair for an IK, but I doubt it'll be that simple this time around, haha.

This has definitely converted me over from Flame Pillar, though! Enjoy!

Thanks for labbing this for me! The other thing I've noticed is that the opponent has to have their shield above a certain strength, otherwise the charge shot will shield poke. The shield poke isn't really the worst thing though, since it's still a really strong hit.

 

[SecretAsianMan]

I find it more reliable to break the shield with bomb drop -> charge shot. You can punish ground approaches with the bomb, and use the charge shot while they are in shield stun. Also the bomb actually has 2 hits!

 

[Emuchu]

I find it more reliable to break the shield with bomb drop -> charge shot. You can punish ground approaches with the bomb, and use the charge shot while they are in shield stun. Also the bomb actually has 2 hits!

This sounds a lot like Samus' setup from Smash 4, but I'm curious about how you're getting people to shield the bombs instead of either jumping them or eating the hit? I'm still used to the timed bombs from before, haha.

 

[Joshua12450]

Use this all the time. Good punish is the second hit of a fully charged down smash, usually kills decently early, especially near the ledge.

 

[NintendoParty]

Use this all the time. Good punish is the second hit of a fully charged down smash, usually kills decently early, especially near the ledge.

If you're trying to kill at proper %, yes, but otherwise for damage, no. Fsmash charged is more damage and can also kill (perhaps down smash has more knockback). You can also use a super missile to CB, which is 45-51% I think, and can also kill. But the second hit of dsmash is popular as a punish, likely for its knockback at high %.

 

[SecretAsianMan]

Well you are using the charge shot for the shield break so thats not really an option, but the back hit of down smash has a rediculous knockback charge growth so it sucks if you throw it out uncharged but it has insane knockback compared to other fully charged smash attack. Full charge back hit down smash can kill mario at 50 at the ledge of FD with DI. Fsmash strait up does more percent though but kills waayy later, so its more optimal if you get a shieldbreak at, say 30 percent ish

 

[SecretAsianMan]

Or be Aehmer and use up air dragdown jump kick spike at the ledge and be stylish

 

[SecretAsianMan]

This sounds a lot like Samus' setup from Smash 4, but I'm curious about how you're getting people to shield the bombs instead of either jumping them or eating the hit? I'm still used to the timed bombs from before, haha.

For alot of characters just spamming well-placed gundashes, or short hop samus missile(depending on set obviously) forces a ground approach. Also using the bomb again will instantly detonate the old one. Mind you I always play on FD and things will change when platforms are involved. Also threatning characters that try to fly really high over your bomb and gundashes with up-air will help condition them to go down. It also helps when they discover that they can hit the bomb back (Don't Boink My Bombs!), because then they think they can safely strut down on the ground and swat the bomb away, but you can detonate it right as they approach, kind of like snake's C4

 

[NintendoParty]

Well you are using the charge shot for the shield break so thats not really an option, but the back hit of down smash has a rediculous knockback charge growth so it sucks if you throw it out uncharged but it has insane knockback compared to other fully charged smash attack. Full charge back hit down smash can kill mario at 50 at the ledge of FD with DI. Fsmash strait up does more percent though but kills waayy later, so its more optimal if you get a shieldbreak at, say 30 percent ish

I've seen gunner have enough time to charge Cb again and do the super missile CB combo for punish. I've actually done this myself once. Some like to charge full CB and then do fsmash for damage, but now they have a CB again for immediate use whenever. Test it yourself with a shield break and see how much time you have. Re dsmash killing at 50, did not know that. I will lab it now. Sounds awesome.

 

[SecretAsianMan]

Rip Mii gunner.
Missle CB shieldbreak. We will miss you

12/7/18 ~ 4/7/19

 

[Emuchu]

Rip Mii gunner.
Missle CB shieldbreak. We will miss you

12/7/18 ~ 4/7/19

Nooooooooooo is this true? Is Samus' Bomb > CS shield break removed, as well? If this is no longer a viable strategy, then I'm swapping Gunner Missile back to the Flame Pillar... on that note, what are all you guys switching your CB > Missiles to? I used to use Grenade / Pillar / Bomb before swapping to CB / Missile / Bomb for the break potential.

 

[SecretAsianMan]

Miissiles still work as a long range poking tool, a shield conditioning tool, and a jab-locking tool, but the use of shield breaks is gone.