~metroid discussion thread.

[Rutger]

Just because it's hard doesn't mean it should be done. Ignoring the fact that Other M is a terrible Metroid game, the control scheme is terrible for the game it wants to be. As I said before, you can mash the direction you want to move in and you will automatically dodge most attacks, trivializing much of the combat in an Action game. Also, the first person view slows down the pacing of what should be a fast paced action game.

If they wanted simplified controls then it never should have been an action game, instead they should have just made a 2D game much like New Super Mario Bros. or Donkey Kong Country Returns. The controls would have been great if the gameplay was simply Metroid Fusion 2.0, the story already kind of is.

Level design is pretty linear, yes, but going for the 100% opens up the world when you complete the story for the first time.

That's way to late, I shouldn't have to wait until the post game for a Metroid game.
Even in Prime 3 I could return to past areas whenever I wanted to until the endgame if I felt like it.


I really am over Other M though, I don't ever think of that game unless it gets brought up.
My love for the Prime Trilogy goes far beyond all of my hate for Other M. I really hope to see Retro get their hands on the series again, regardless of if it is a first-person, third-person, or a side-scrolling game, I feel I can trust them with the series. Retro's games had great music and environments(places like Torvus Bog, Sanctuary Fortress, and Skytown Elysia still stand out as some of my favorite environments in any game), scanning was a brilliant idea that added much to the worlds they created, and the gameplay for the trilogy was great.

Other M could never hurt my respect for this series.

 

[finalark]

I believe the reasoning to making the control scheme simple was to allow anyone to play the game. I only consider controls bad if it doesn't feel good to play. Despite having a small learning curve, it still felt good to play. I guess the devas wanted to have Other M be a sort of introduction to a 2D style Metroid, especially considering how the Prime series was dominant on home consoles for awhile.

No, the controls were terrible. It doesn't feel "good" to play. That d-pad is not made for movement in a 3D environmental, the whole third-person mechanic is stupid and gimmicky, not being able to move while in first person is just backwards ass design and maybe it's just because I have man hands but the 1 and 2 buttons plus that damned d-pad are just way too tiny.

And what are you talking about Prime being dormant? Metroid Prime 3 came out a few years before Other M and even then we got Prime Trilogy not long after. You want dormant? Try a franchise like say... Streets of Rage, which hasn't had a release since the Genesis.

Yeah, you could've done more with the nunchuk, but what's done is done. Quit talking about what could have been, and focus on what it is. Making a control scheme as simple as possible is difficult as all hell. Making something complex is far easier, which is why I give the devas props for making something simple, instead of taking the easy way out. They tried something new, and it worked for the game they made.

The reason why we're talking about what could have been is because what they did was terrible. I've already focused on what it is and clearly stated exactly why it's bad. And I don't know where you're getting this "simple is hard complex is easy" mentality. It's much easy to make a simplified and dumbed-down version of a game rather than making a praticical control scheme. And no, the controls don't work for a beat 'em up or a Metroid game, at all.
piratical control scheme.

Level design is pretty linear, yes, but going for the 100% opens up the world when you complete the story for the first time.

This sentence pretty much proves how much Other M missed the point of Metroid.

Other M was far from perfect yes, but it was never a bad game. Team Ninja captured the Metroid feel, and produced something that was fun to play.

No, I'm pretty sure it's a bad game given to a dev team that don't get what makes Metroid what it is.

But to each his own.

 

[Tetra's Tracker]

People that focus on the story tend to forget how Samus was already whining in fusion. Even though it hadn't reach that level of stupidity.

I don't think she really 'whined' in Fusion. When she spoke of Adam it was respect, admiration and general fondness of memory for him that was conveyed. She were very hints that she had romantic feelings for him, but because she kept the steely demeanor that you'd expect from her throughout the game, those hints were very subtle. This worked well, it further showed Samus had a heart, yet kept Samus's 'warrior of steel' image intact. It also left some things open to the player's interpretation. In Other M however it seemed like the writers didn't know the meaning of the word 'subtle' with them ramming Samus's clear romantic feelings for Adam down the players throats, leaving little to imagination or interpretation. In the process they ripped apart Samus's personality that had gradually been built up in the nine games previous, making Samus at times sound like a drama queen schoolgirl with a crush and act like Adam's lap dog. After I played through Other M for the first time a few months ago, I replayed Fusion straight after it, and I was astonished to see how much more professional and well written Fusion was.

As a game I actually quite enjoyed Other M, but as a Metroid title I found it very lacking. I think it's a good game, but apart from getting the atmosphere right now and again, it's worlds away from what a Metroid game should be. As a game I'd give it about an 8, as a Metroid game I'd give it a 3 or 4.

 

[ndayday]

And what are you talking about Prime being dormant? Metroid Prime 3 came out a few years before Other M and even then we got Prime Trilogy not long after. You want dormant? Try a franchise like say... Streets of Rage, which hasn't had a release since the Genesis.

*he said dominant

I still really dislike Other M but it's hard to outright hate it for me. It had some nice boss battles imo (Ridley, Nightmare). The ending was over the top but I'd be lying if it didn't make me a little sad. At the end I didn't think "I just wasted X hours of my life." Those were probably the only good points. Everything else I think everyone would agree is distinctly not Metroid, from the environments to the music to the exploration.

 

[teluoborg]

I don't think she really 'whined' in Fusion. When she spoke of Adam it was respect, admiration and general fondness of memory for him that was conveyed. She were very hints that she had romantic feelings for him, but because she kept the steely demeanor that you'd expect from her throughout the game, those hints were very subtle. This worked well, it further showed Samus had a heart, yet kept Samus's 'warrior of steel' image intact. It also left some things open to the player's interpretation. In Other M however it seemed like the writers didn't know the meaning of the word 'subtle' with them ramming Samus's clear romantic feelings for Adam down the players throats, leaving little to imagination or interpretation. In the process they ripped apart Samus's personality that had gradually been built up in the nine games previous, making Samus at times sound like a drama queen schoolgirl with a crush and act like Adam's lap dog. After I played through Other M for the first time a few months ago, I replayed Fusion straight after it, and I was astonished to see how much more professional and well written Fusion was.

You're probably right, maybe it's just that Other M managed to ruin Fusion retroactively for me.

 

[finalark]

*he said dominant

Oops. My apologies.

 

[RespawningJesus]

Also, when I say it is more difficult to make something simple, this is true. Making something complex is pretty easy, since it is easy to do complex actions, such as aiming, dodging, firing missiles, etc. when you have more to work with.

Making something simple is trickier to do, since you have less to work with, which requires someone to be creative.

 

[Rutger]

And the Wiimote alone would never be a good controller for a 3D action game. Of course it's going to be hard to build a game with a control scheme that offers far less than the core of a game needs.

Stubbornly sticking to an inferior controller when everyone has a better option is never a good idea. The controller should work with the gameplay, I would argue that their desire for simple controls ended up making some things more complicated than it ever should have been anyways, just compare the far more natural Bow in the Wii Zelda games to Missiles in Other M.

The sad part is that the Wiimote alone would have been fine with a more traditional 2D Metroid. A simple control scheme is not hard when the game is designed with it in mind.

I will give Other M one thing, auto-lockon would have been absolutely necessary with what they had, and probably not a bad idea even if they used a better controller. :/

 

[Tetra's Tracker]

You're probably right, maybe it's just that Other M managed to ruin Fusion retroactively for me.

Something I will give Other M is that I kinda enjoyed Fusion more after playing it. I was glad to learn about Adam in Other M and I as a result I appreciated Samus's soliloquies about him more in Fusion. I didn't mind Adam's character in Other M, they did an okay job with him IMO.

I don't think we'll see another game like Other M. I think the series will continue, and Other M will be seen as the strange little oddity of the series. I just can't see Nintendo looking at Other M and thinking "Yes, this is the direction we need to go in". Other M was an experiment plain and simple. It's fair to argue whether it's a good game or not, but it's hard to make a claim for the experiment being a success due to it neither selling well or getting a great reception from fans/critics ('mixed' is the best word for the reception). The first Prime game was also an experiment, however that game was an overwhelming success both commercially and critically, hence why it got three sequels.