Meteor Cancel, uncancellable at high %?

[flieskiller]

With the upcoming 20XXTE, this would give the ability to change the general mechanics of the game at a tournament level. One of them is the Meteor Cancel. That mechanic change is a code already available in the Melee Workshop section of Smashboards.

Meteor cancel is an attack that is most of the time unusable at any % to defeat an opponent because of the cancelling, which is only after 8 frames. Making the Meteor Cancel not being able to work after a certain % (like 100%) would make these kind of attacks work like a spike after 100%, which is a lethal range anyway for a lot of attacks.

In the top6 characters of this game (Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Peach, Puff), the only character with a Meteor Attack is Peach with her d-tilt. (PAL version of Marth also has his spike replaced with a meteor attack, but I'll focus on NTSC version for now)

This means, if we add a limit of % that a meteor attack can be cancelled, this would only buff characters that are worse than the top tier.

I'm simply throwing an idea here, feel free to discuss about it or you can also flame/insult me for trying to improve the game.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

This poll is totally biased. Either we agree with you, or we hate low tiers? Cmon dude.

As for the actual change, what will this really change? All it does is reduce the amount of skillful interactions players can have.

 

[MurphyPrime]

It would make Mario better, but it wouldn't change a whole lot. To buff the low characters they would have to make character specific changes (GW l-cancel, Roy have better hit boxes, etc). So no point to doing it.

 

[EPsilon933]

1 default version that everyone can easily use with no effort required is nice. Let's not mod the game for improving competitive play. It doesn't need improvements, even if it's not perfect

 

[Roukiske]

Changes to the game IMO should go to PM. Melee is Melee regardless of how perfect or imperfect it is to some.

Plus I love meteor canceling.

Edit: For fun though? Oh sure, I think that's fine.

 

[Flippy Flippersen]

If you want a game where lowtiers get buffs and things are actually different from vanilla you should prolly look into sd remix. It has been stated before 20xxte is not made to start modifying melee characters but just to make for a better tournament experience. But especially something like this which has no real impact on the flaws of certain characters and only makes falco falcon and pal marth very very slightly better and would be a pain to program since it actually changes one of melees core rules seems like something I just can't imagine being worth it.

I do hate lowtiers but I don't think it's that relevant to my statement.

 

[Stride]

If I had to change meteor cancelling somehow, I'd do it by increasing the delay before meteor cancelling is possible. A flat threshold for when it's possible to meteor cancel would feel unintuitive ("why can they cancel the knockback nearly instantly and punish me on hit at 100% but are guaranteed to die at 101%?"), and still retains the issue of the meteors being ineffective as kill moves below the threshold. Just increasing the delay would accomplish what you're looking for, I think.

I don't agree that it would be a good idea to change it though. The point of meteor cancelling is to allow moves which send the opponent downwards to be effective as onstage combo tools without being powerful kill moves, and it works pretty well in that respect. Making them work as both combo moves and kill moves is a big deal for balance even though it only affects some characters, so if I were going to change it I wouldn't want to increase the delay so much to the point where it really matters (or really to change it at all). I think you could get away with what Project M did by pushing it a little further with a longer delay just to make it feel better and buff them slightly (the normal meteor cancelling delay does feel extremely short) without really changing the balance, but you couldn't push it particularly far.

20XXTE will never change the game mechanics or balance; Dan has explicitly said that. The furthest it's gone is the option of removing the random stage elements.

 

[Mastodon]

eh...nah. Melee is flawless as it is. Don't play low tiers.

 

[MurphyPrime]

Melee isn't flawless with the low, low tiers (Roy, Bowser, etc.). Everything else is good.

 

[Massive]

This would actually be a pretty huge nerf to G&W and Kirby, both of whom have great vertical recoveries that benefit from meteor cancels at higher %.

 

[-ACE-]

DK mains would love this, they already can't MC (or or at least it does very little) lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Actually, characters like Marth and G&W are more susceptible to meteors than other characters. Like teching, meteor canceling has a fail window. When you press upb, you cannot meteor cancel again for 40 frames; this includes your initial upb. Characters that rise quickly after pressing upb will not have 40 frames between when they first upb and when they need to meteor cancel to survive.


edited correction by Kadano

 

[Kadano]

Both of your statements are true. There’s the 6 frames of knockback and hitstun without meteor-canceling possible that acts as a threshold for vertical total movement (which DK is bad at, but Marth is good at), and there’s the 40 frames disabled up-B timer (not 60) that hinders recoveries which start to travel quickly (which is bad for Marth more than DK, although most characters can often reach him where he starts his up-B anyway and meteor him there).

 

[LovinMitts]

If I HAD to change it, I'd make it like Project M and make it to where you can't meteor cancel until your hitstun is 1/4th of the way through. But I wouldn't make this change to Melee. We don't need the hassle of it being required to have a setup with 20XXTE just because of meteor cancelling. Vanilla should still be usable on setups.