Metaknight is a pain to edgeguard/when edge guarding

[Sakki]

I'm once again seeking advice.
So here's what's goin' on. I'm the older brother and as such, I am better than my little bro in terms of technical skill and mindgames. I'm very quick to exploit any of his bad habits, such as not attacking while he floats back down to the stage and instead wait for him to air dodge which then leaves him wide open to an U-air (small tip to all of you, unless you all already do that).

But the problem now, is that i think i've played him too much and he's learning very quickly (couldn't be prouder). So now, it's extremely difficult to get back to the stage unharmed. Before I could get him most of the time by timing/spacing my F-air, but that's stopped working once he got his D-air/F-air timing/spacing down. Then i moved on to well-timed air dodges just to get through, but i'm noticing that he's finally getting wise to it and copying what I do. So now i'm stuck and all i can do now is pray he messes up when i air dodge. Also, I'm forced to airdodge because it's way better than taking a shuttle loop in the face.

I've tried getting back to the stage from all angles. Coming from below gets beat out by D-air, stage level beat out by D-air/F-air, and above gets beat out by shuttle loop/D-air(after baited air dodge).

Anything i haven't tried?

Also, on the subject of edge fights. How can a metaknight be edgeguarded other than a well-timed/lucky down B? (Even then it's really risky because a whiff means i'm now below the stage set up perfectly for his D-airs) From my experience shuttle loop beats all my aerials.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

There is a FAQ and/or match-up thread to ask this in...

Instead of doing a barrel roll, try these suggestions:

Not getting edge-guarded:
1. I would say b-air ("good for what ails you"). Fight priority with priority.
2. Also, try fast-falling a couple of your 5 jumps and see how he reacts. Keep him on his toes.
3. Air dodge even better than you do now (get better reaction time; wait until the last couple of frames) and end it with a b-air. Throw these in every once in a while.
4. Use aerial hammer to discourage approaching.
5. Sweet-spot Final Cutter from below.
6. Stone from above to next of the ledge (use rarely)
7. If you are above, Stone if he is high in the air. He cannot get to stage as quickly as Kirby like this. If he stands on the ground or is low-air, try an air-dodge
8. u-air from below?

Edge-guarding:
1. I would say b-air ("good for what ails you"). Fight priority with priority. (sic)
2. Swallowcide (against Meta-Knight: bad idea)?
3. d-air?

I really do not like to edge-guard Meta-Knight. A good foe should make it back to the stage somehow.

This is all I can think of...

 

[lilthunder91013]

for edge guarding u could try using the final cutter because if he's high and close enough u can go for a possible spike (but make sure u stay on the edge), if he's low the projectile will keep pushing him away until he's out of jumps

i would also like to say that u are so lucky u have a sibling that is willing to play. my older brother never wants to play and when he actually agrees to play he just spams pika's down b and that gets extremely annoying just because of pika's voice.

 

[Deg222]

When recovering against MK, first use your aerial hammer to get back saving all your five jumps. When you finally do approach the edge, use an aerial with every jump you take. I usually do a forward air with every jump. Before you jump again, fast fall, and instantly jump with another forward air (like Tomato Kirby mentioned). It's just a basic technique for mind games, you don't really fall that much, but just a little more than normal. Also when doing this, inch your way in, don't just hold forward towards the platform, you have 5 jumps for a reason.

Don't ever recover from below the platform either. If you do find yourself in that position, don't try and attack and recover at the same time, next thing you know, you're out of jumps and you're dead. Just do whatever you can to avoid his down airs and get back to that platform immediately.

If you find yourself way up in the air, just stay up there, it should be pretty predictable when he'll do a shuttle loop.

If both players are good, you really shouldn't see much edge guarding at all between the both of them. Kirby should be able to just fly back, and well we all know you can't really edge guard MK.

 

[pnoid]

back air for edgeguarding metaknight! that's all i got...

 

[Sakki]

Bair has indeed cured what ailed me. i really have no idea why i hadn't abused this move as much as i should have. I think in my mind i've always thought fair had better priority coz of its slightly better range, but that's clearly not the case. Also, sacrificing one jump to turn around to set up a Bair while returning to the stage is well worth it. Hopefully this won't be just be a new cycle of 'new trick becomes punishable old trick' though.

@ Tomato:
Not getting edge-guarded:
1. Couldn't be truer for now atleast.
2. Going under MK is never good, even an off guard fast-fall. That dair of his doesn't have enough lag D:
3. Air Dodging has always been great, but it's definitely a good plan B when the angle for a Bair isn't good.
4. Aerial hammering has the opposite effect in my case
5. Final cutter gets beat out by MK's dair
6. Stoning is very easy to spot and is punished by Dair/Nair often for me.i could see it maybe working on someone who doesn't face kirby often.

Edge-guarding:
1. I'm getting drunk on Bair
2. trying to swallow MK in general is bad. Fair and Dsmash outrange it most of the time. One interesting thing though is that it out prioritizes shuttle loop. Works very well when MK is hanging off the edge and unsuspectingly tries to do an immediate shuttle loop. But it doesn't take long for him to realize what's up.
3. Dair tends to just trade hits against shuttle loop, but the difference in damage is pretty big. A quick Dair can still catch MK off guard though so it's not entirely out the window.


@lilthunder:
Final Cutter is not very effective unfortunately. It's too slow and easy to spot. Also the opportunity to use it doesn't come up often.

I really am grateful to have a lil brother to spar with, he also makes a great doubles partner.

I'm just seriously blown away by how effective sacrificing one jump to turn around and setting up a Bair is. :D

 

[Reioumu]

B-air is sadly your ONLY choice for off the stage edgeguarding. Most MK's will try to Up-B, slash before they land, down smash. A TON of Metaknights do this to trick people to getting out of their shields. With Kirby, you need to be smart and to watch out for those traps since you really can't edgeguard him. The only options really would to kill him with overall % and hope that your stronger attacks hit.

-Rei

 

[TwilightKirby]

2. Going under MK is never good, even an off guard fast-fall. That dair of his doesn't have enough lag D:

Kirbys uair has more range than meta dair. lol most people don't notice how much range kirbys uair has... his foot sorta grows when he does it. But I know I can juggle MKs from below with uairs. Just space.

 

[mysticwolf]

he can fly. that's why other people think kirby is a pain to edgeguard.

 

[ES Lite]

For edge-guarding MK, i suggest RAR bair, jump bair, jump bair etc.

when being edge-guarding by MK, i would just keep doing dair. Pressure is good because when hes scared of being spiked, he doesnt notice that your already on the stage. Even if he isnt scared, he has a chance of being spiked.

MK has a lot of air priority, as TwilightKirby said, uair has more priority then his dair though, use this to your advantage and B-down to stage level and come back to the stage using uair to approach.

 

[Sakki]

Kirbys uair has more range than meta dair. lol most people don't notice how much range kirbys uair has... his foot sorta grows when he does it. But I know I can juggle MKs from below with uairs. Just space.

Is that really true? I kinda get this weird phenomenon where my Uair works when me and MK are above stage level, but when i'm below stage level, i often lose out to MK's Dair and get staged spiked >_>;

For edge-guarding MK, i suggest RAR bair, jump bair, jump bair etc.

when being edge-guarding by MK, i would just keep doing dair. Pressure is good because when hes scared of being spiked, he doesnt notice that your already on the stage. Even if he isnt scared, he has a chance of being spiked.

MK has a lot of air priority, as TwilightKirby said, uair has more priority then his dair though, use this to your advantage and B-down to stage level and come back to the stage using uair to approach.

I wouldn't recommend using Dair while coming back to the stage against an edgeguarding MK. Shuttle loop just destroys Kirby's Dair. And even if MK is spiked, he usually has no problem making it back.

Also, using Stone probably something i could use more often instead of just taking the quickest route back to the stage.


Now that i'm pretty much drunk on Bair, i'm finding that sacrificing one jump to turn around and then doing consecutive rising bairs to be a good and fairly safe way to return to the stage against pretty much anyone.

 

[Faithkeeper]

MK has a lot of air priority, as TwilightKirby said, uair has more priority then his dair though, use this to your advantage and B-down to stage level and come back to the stage using uair to approach.

2 questions:

1. if he's in the air, why bother with the uair? wouldn't he be: A) above you, so you should get back on stage and set up a bair. or B) behind you, so you should rising bair or get back on stage and set up a bair?

2. if he's on the stage, couldn't punish vB's lag?

 

[CompassTosser]

If you are edgeguarding, and he is flying above you jump from the edge and bair him. Also intercept with dair if hes low enough.